Nashville Bits and Pieces

[whatwhat]

Nashville Post is saying that Red Door is expanding.

[BnaBreaker]

Which structure is being torn down? Hopefully not that three story older white building on the corner. It doesn't look like anything THAT significant...but tearing that down just to expand a bar especially when there is a parking lot with some crappy old shack across the street would be typical Nashville...one step forward and two steps back.

[samsonh]

That is the structure being torn down, and it should be torn down. There was clearly no way that would be rehabbed so I'm not sure what saving it would accomplish. Tearing it down should add some activity to the corner.

[BnaBreaker]

That is the structure being torn down, and it should be torn down. There was clearly no way that would be rehabbed so I'm not sure what saving it would accomplish. Tearing it down should add some activity to the corner.

Yes, since the 1950's that has been Nashville's mantra, and although I thought Nashville was progressing, it appears it still is it's mantra. Newer is always better than old in Nashville. I had hope in recent years that Nashville was really truly embracing the idea of preserving it's urban history. But first the Hillsboro Village development, then the dismantling of the Tower Records building, and now this, and I am sad to say that I was wrong. One by one, the handful of pre-1960s structures we have left are being torn down because they 'aren't significant', and are a bit worn, and people will say 'eh, no big deal, it's not that great', until finally there aren't any left. I really don't get it. Nashville probably has more lots filled with pure junk or unused open space than any major city in the country (see the lot right across the street from this). There is no reason any structure, much less an old three story residential building should have to be demolished in order to build anew. You want to add some life to that corner? How about starting with the fact that on three of the four corners on 19th/Division are blank asphalt parking lots? Whether it was currently being used or not, at least this building added some kind of atmosphere to an otherwise forgettable streetscape!

I'm sorry for being snippy. I don't mean to direct my disgust at you personally samsonh. But this general attitude just irritates me a bit. It's not even this particular building itself being torn down that bothers me as much as it is the notion that if a building isn't an architectural masterpiece, and it is fifty years or older and has some wear on it, then it is worthless as a structure and no attempt should be made to work it into a modern streetscape. Significant or not, it is structures like this that make Nashville's streets interesting and unique and different from many other cities, and it really bothers me that we'd rather just choose laziness and tear them down and replace them with some ho-hum crap that you could find anywhere, rather than make any attempt at preservation, revitalization and creatively working around them or working them into a development and create something truly special.

Edited March 27, 2012 by BnaBreaker

[samsonh]

I understand your frustration that things are torn down. But this building has zero value, zilch. In fact it's a dangerous eyesore. I'd much rather have a high tax generating bar there than a non descript house that's about to collapse. There's a temptation among some(not saying you) to want to save every older building, no matter the value. But this attitude makes it harder to save the buildings WORTH saving because people just ignore you because you want to save everything.

[BnaBreaker]

I do agree with you about that to some degree. I suppose my threshold for what constitutes a building worth saving is just different than others. I don't think every building is worth saving. But this structure, at least to an untrained eye like my own (and I fully admit I haven't seen it in person in years), seemed to be sturdy and have some pleasing architectural elements to it. I guess I just don't understand the mentality that it's better to spend money tearing down a structure when it could potentially be worked into the changing street scape and utilized in some way. Trust me, I'm all for the expansion of bars ( ) but the only actual structure being put in this building's place is a tiny 1,000 square foot one story building. The rest is going to be a wooden deck and a parking lot. That will make FOUR parking lots on the corner of what should be a prominent street crossing in what is supposedly one of the city's hottest urban neighborhoods.

I don't know. Perhaps I'm just being unfair to Nashville and holding it to standards that aren't reasonable. I love the city more than any other and gripe and criticize only because I want to push it to become even better. I try not to compare it to cities like my current home of Chicago, because it really is an apples to oranges comparison, but in a city like Chicago, only in it's most run down, inactive neighborhoods would it be acceptable to see a major intersection be fronted by parking lots on three sides and a one story house with a giant deck facing the other. That is not a recipe for a thriving urban neighborhood.

Edited March 28, 2012 by BnaBreaker

[MLBrumby]

I do agree with you about that to some degree. I suppose my threshold for what constitutes a building worth saving is just different than others. I don't think every building is worth saving. But this structure, at least to an untrained eye like my own (and I fully admit I haven't seen it in person in years), seemed to be sturdy and have some pleasing architectural elements to it. I guess I just don't understand the mentality that it's better to spend money tearing down a structure when it could potentially be worked into the changing street scape and utilized in some way. Trust me, I'm all for the expansion of bars ( ) but the only actual structure being put in this building's place is a tiny 1,000 square foot one story building. The rest is going to be a wooden deck and a parking lot. That will make FOUR parking lots on the corner of what should be a prominent street crossing in what is supposedly one of the city's hottest urban neighborhoods.

I don't know. Perhaps I'm just being unfair to Nashville and holding it to standards that aren't reasonable. I love the city more than any other and gripe and criticize only because I want to push it to become even better. I try not to compare it to cities like my current home of Chicago, because it really is an apples to oranges comparison, but in a city like Chicago, only in it's most run down, inactive neighborhoods would it be acceptable to see a major intersection be fronted by parking lots on three sides and a one story house with a giant deck facing the other. That is not a recipe for a thriving urban neighborhood.

Today there are far more things to consider when looking at an old building for putting in a business. For example, I am sure that ADA compliance was one major factor. If this building had been rehabbed, it would have had to have an elevator and/or ramp(s) throughout to be used as a commercial business. It may even have asbestos in it... and then there's the whole tax issue of having an "improved" structure sitting upon the property. I understand that the owners of Red Door plan to replace the house with a deck and a parking lot. So that would remove that component of taxes, not to mention the liability of the old repurposed building. I am sure rehabbing the building would have just been too expensive.

[MTSUBlueraider86]

The advantage we have here in the Southeast and being east of the Mississippi River is that we have architecture going back to the founding of the country whereas most of the country west of the Mississippi was founded after the Civil War. Most of what is there is "new" architecture. The greatest tragedy in Nashville is not just tearing down Nashville history, but American history.

Back in 1975 my parents won a trip to London. My father was the insurance salesman of the year for his company and he was rewarded with a trip. On their first day, they went to a restaurant and the waiter told them that unfortunately they had to eat in the "new" section of the building since the historic section was full. The "new" section was 500 years old.

That is what makes American society look like a throw away consumer society. We don't keep anything. This started in the 1960's when the 630 foot Singer Building in NYC was imploded to make room for the World Trade Center Towers. That is still the tallest structure ever purposely imploded in this country, but since that time in our cities, it has become a regular occurrence.

There have been those in Nashville that wanted to tear down the Ryman. The former CEO of Gaylord, Bud Wendell wanted to move it to Opryland as an exhibit, so Gaylord let it rot for decades.

There were those who wanted to tear down the L&C Tower because it was built in 1955 and too old.

This has been our mindset for decades and when Tony Giarratana tore down the Sudakem Building for The Cumberland, the city skyline was damaged forever. 505CST still won't make up for that.

Architecture is a statement of who we are as a people. It is an indication of our culture. Say what you will about Islam, Taoism, Shintoism and other religions around the world, but their architecture says something about who they are and how they see themselves in the world. In Nashville, we have not learned that yet. We are either to cost conscious, or too afraid of offending someone's sensibilities for being too modern or too expressive.

So, how does that relate to the demolition of this house? It shows were are a very lazy people. Instead of being creative, we are going to settle for a wooden deck and more parking. I cannot think of anything more lazy and self centered as that!

[BnaBreaker]

^^I couldn't agree more MTSURaider. This whole situation just really angers me. It's just so lazy and irresponsible to me. Let's just demolish a piece of history (and it is a piece of history, no matter how insignificant the piece), instead of spending a little more time and money on rehabbing it, because being creative is just too difficult. As I said before, Nashville is THE LAST major city in this country that should be demolishing old buildings. To say that there is a surplus of unused open space that would not require demolition is a major understatement. I can't believe people are okay with this. I mean it's bad enough when an old building is destroyed to make way for a large hotel or apartment block. But razing an old residential building for ANOTHER parking lot (which Nashville already has more of than any city I know) and a wooden deck? That is temporary, throw away trash. And people are able to justify it because there might be some work involved otherwise? Is there something I'm missing here? Seriously?! Maybe I've just been away from Nashville for too long and am out of touch. Some are talking as if Nashville is the only city that has old buildings that it might have to struggle with to keep. This, obviously, is not the case. It's just that other cities value their history, and are willing to put in that extra effort to preserve it. I thought this city was supposed to be urbanizing, not veering back onto the path of becoming a glorified suburb. This would not fly in any city that Nashville should be trying to emulate.

And for the record, yes, I realize that the final decision was the Red Door's to make and that it isn't as if anyone here had any say in the matter. I guess I'm just surprised that more people aren't bothered by this trend of knocking down old structures simply because making them a part of a new design would require a bit of effort. Nashvillians like to claim to be disgusted over the fact that the city destroyed most of it's historical structures in frantic urban renewal efforts back in the 1970's, but then they continue to allow it to happen on a much smaller scale, and I have to wonder how much of that disgust is really authentic. Is every dilapidated wooden shanty worth keeping simply because it's old? No. But what is the criteria for determining whether an old building is "significant" enough to be saved from the wrecking ball? I have a feeling that if given the final word, many Nashvillians would raze most of Chicago since the vast majority of buildings here are at least as insignificant historically as this building on 19th & Division is, but then think nothing of it and pat themselves on the back for saving a token Cathedral or 19th Century highrise. It's easy to support preservation when the structure in question is universally identified as beautiful and historically significant. It's what a city does with it's lesser history that really counts.

Edited March 28, 2012 by BnaBreaker

[samsonh]

First you say the building is not significant. Then you say it should be saved and we are destroying history. This building has sat unused, vacant, a complete eyesore for years. Now it will be used, have activity, and create revenue and jobs for the city. Again I ask, why should this building be saved? And if it is to be saved, who is going to pay for its upkeep and maintenance? Not too mention getting it into any kind of shape for use.

Here's a link to a pic of the building in case my image linking doesn't work.

http://maps.google.c...n0h5O4pCTv1lQzA

Edited March 28, 2012 by samsonh

[dmillsphoto]

BACK TO TIDBITS

The 10CN reports that Dean has won approval for a grant to master-plan SoBro. Seems like this would have been a no-brainer when the MCC was approved, but hey, what do I know about logic? I am a bit anxious to see what the final result lays out.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120328/NEWS0202/303280143/Metro-wins-grant-plan-SoBro-growth?odyssey=mod{sodEmoji.|}newswell{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}FRONTPAGE{sodEmoji.|}p

[MTSUBlueraider86]

BACK TO TIDBITS

The 10CN reports that Dean has won approval for a grant to master-plan SoBro. Seems like this would have been a no-brainer when the MCC was approved, but hey, what do I know about logic? I am a bit anxious to see what the final result lays out.

http://www.tennessea...ext{sodEmoji.|}FRONTPAGE{sodEmoji.|}p

Not Yet! Sorry Daniel, this is not over!

Tidbits later.

A few years ago we lost the Hathcock Building on 8Th and Commerce for a parking lot for the Church. It was the ONLY 1930's building at the time that spanned two streets along a side walk where one could walk from one side of the building to another exiting on opposite sides. It stretched from 7th to 8th Avenues and was four stories. It could have easily been converted into loft space. We lost Jews Hatters and other buildings on 8th for more surface parking. And although I said it could be replicated, The Berger Building cannot be replaced when it comes down for the Federal Courthouse. The Baptist's took down more buildings along Church Street between 9th and 10th Avenues for more parking below the viaduct. We lost more buildings recently behind Hume Fogg High School for a gymnasium they never built, and worst of all we lost the Genesco building 24 years ago in favor of a 45 story office tower that was never built on 7th and Commerce behind Hume Fogg. The Genesco Tower was 12 stories and a late 1930's early 1940's art deco tower that mimicked the James Robertson Apartments. It was slender with concrete and stone art deco accents. Gone.

We lost some row buildings to make way for KVB. One was the Cummings Engines Building and soon we will lose Rock City Machine and it's retro tube signage in favor of a generic Hyatt Hotel. 13 stories not withstanding, but now 13 stories is too short for such a prominent lot. Why not build on a surface lot and retrofit the Rock City Machine Building? This is happening on every block in the urban core, midtown, and West End. No one seems to care. Yes, I love skyscrapers and I love watching them go up on surface parking lots, but there is no reason to tear down a building for more surface lots and wait decades before anything is built on them.

When is this going to stop? When is Nashville going to wake up? What about the buildings on 3rd and Church that that burned? Instead of rehabbing them, they tore them down and we have had surface parking for 25 years.

With a spiritual theme in mind, God save our souls for this type of blantant disregard for our cities and it's peoples.

Okay back to tidbits.

[Nathan_in_DC]

I am the first that you will hear complain about loss of urban architectural history. Frankly, building design just is not as good as it once was. You'll rarely see buildings built with the care and longevity that was exhibited in the 1890s-1930s. That being said, this is not necessarily an example we should be striving to keep. If you stop everyone from tearing down every building built before 1960 everywhere, then people will start ignoring you. This building does in fact look quite dilapidated, what with windows that are boarded over with rotten plywood, peeling paint, and stonework that is crumbling (and that can just be told from a low resolution Google Street View shot).

Rehabbing buildings is not always feasible. Sometimes damage is just too great. I suppose you may be able to gut the inside and leave a facade standing, like they recently did with the new Haslam building on UT's campus, but even then it's often just not worth doing it. There is a bottom line that developers have to meet. While I agree that it is almost always better to build a new building across the street in the vacant lot, that's not always possible. What if the current owner just didn't want to sell? What if some city code didn't allow it to be built? What if there was something geologically unsound about the corner? There are a million different reasons that they chose to expand to the lot next door rather than rebuild across the street.

There are more buildings that have been torn down in cities I've lived in that by no means should have been torn down than I'd like to count. For instance, we just lost an old waterworks facility near a hiking trail here in Philadelphia that was a great example of a historic facility no longer in use. Although it was quite dilapidated, and probably pretty dangerous on the inside, I walked in its cavernous interiors more than once to take pictures and just bask in the late 18th century industrial equipment that was left lying about. I would have loved to have seen it renovated, or at least fenced off, cleaned up and kept in a state of frozen disrepair to be viewed from a distance.

This, however, is just not really one of those instances. It's unfortunately very likely run down beyond repair, and admittedly, isn't that architecturally interesting or important. I say we reserve our efforts for the buildings that are truly irreplaceable, so we don't lose another Sudekem or Berger building.

[fieldmarshaldj]

That is what makes American society look like a throw away consumer society. We don't keep anything. This started in the 1960's when the 630 foot Singer Building in NYC was imploded to make room for the World Trade Center Towers. That is still the tallest structure ever purposely imploded in this country, but since that time in our cities, it has become a regular occurrence.

Minor correction. While the former World Trade Center was nearby, the Singer Building was actually demolished to make way for the former HQ of U.S. Steel (later renamed One Liberty Plaza). A rather unattractive black monolith which was almost destroyed due to its proximity to the WTC on 9/11/2001. I cringe to this day that that stunning piece of architecture in the style of Second Empire (which in my estimation is about the most beautiful architectural style) was demolished for that.

http://www.emporis.com/building/one-liberty-plaza-new-york-city-ny-usa

[Guest]

I LOVE International Style! One Liberty Plaza was a great design.

[MLBrumby]

Not Yet! Sorry Daniel, this is not over!

Tidbits later.

A few years ago we lost the Hathcock Building on 8Th and Commerce for a parking lot for the Church. It was the ONLY 1930's building at the time that spanned two streets along a side walk where one could walk from one side of the building to another exiting on opposite sides. It stretched from 7th to 8th Avenues and was four stories. It could have easily been converted into loft space. We lost Jews Hatters and other buildings on 8th for more surface parking. And although I said it could be replicated, The Berger Building cannot be replaced when it comes down for the Federal Courthouse. The Baptist's took down more buildings along Church Street between 9th and 10th Avenues for more parking below the viaduct. We lost more buildings recently behind Hume Fogg High School for a gymnasium they never built, and worst of all we lost the Genesco building 24 years ago in favor of a 45 story office tower that was never built on 7th and Commerce behind Hume Fogg. The Genesco Tower was 12 stories and a late 1930's early 1940's art deco tower that mimicked the James Robertson Apartments. It was slender with concrete and stone art deco accents. Gone.

We lost some row buildings to make way for KVB. One was the Cummings Engines Building and soon we will lose Rock City Machine and it's retro tube signage in favor of a generic Hyatt Hotel. 13 stories not withstanding, but now 13 stories is too short for such a prominent lot. Why not build on a surface lot and retrofit the Rock City Machine Building? This is happening on every block in the urban core, midtown, and West End. No one seems to care. Yes, I love skyscrapers and I love watching them go up on surface parking lots, but there is no reason to tear down a building for more surface lots and wait decades before anything is built on them.

When is this going to stop? When is Nashville going to wake up? What about the buildings on 3rd and Church that that burned? Instead of rehabbing them, they tore them down and we have had surface parking for 25 years.

With a spiritual theme in mind, God save our souls for this type of blantant disregard for our cities and it's peoples.

Okay back to tidbits.

I want to add that the old National Life buildings, which were the best examples of pre-war deco and neoclassical styles were also demolished for more parking. These were a tremendous loss due to the fact that the Grand Ol' Opry actually started there. You can't get any more historic than that... and there was virtually no outcry for the demolition of those buildings, each done about ten years apart.

I too lament the loss of these buildings, but what is the solution that would not restrict property owners' rights? It will have to be education, and pointing out that suburban style buildings have their place, just not downtown... and perhaps there can be a tax penalty for all lots in town that were the results of buildings being demolished. Couldn't be retroactive, but certainly could serve as a disincentive going forward.

The buildings along 2nd/Market street that went down, were deliberately set on fire, (the official cause was listed as arson) allegedly by an agent for the owners, Algernon-Blair... and attributed to a homeless person. The point is that the building was more valuable to the owners as a parking lot (and that is what it is to this day). The past fifty years has shown most of us that older buildings can be re-used, but it is more difficult today than it used to be with all the federal and local regs dictating the method requirements for rehabbing buildings.

Edited March 29, 2012 by MLBrumby

[bwithers1]

Trust me, I'm all for the expansion of bars ( ) but the only actual structure being put in this building's place is a tiny 1,000 square foot one story building. The rest is going to be a wooden deck and a parking lot. That will make FOUR parking lots on the corner of what should be a prominent street crossing in what is supposedly one of the city's hottest urban neighborhoods.

I can't speak for the other corners, but placing a deck on the corner could actually be good for the area and provide more activation than you might imagine. Red Door's location in East Nashville's 5 Points features a deck at 11th and Forrest that is always crowded. It is something of a biker hangout with lots of bikes dotting 11th Street. This adds quite a bit of conviviality to that corner rather than taking everything inside like at 3Crow or some of the other establishments that might have a patio in the rear but not so much on the street. During good weather there are often more people outside than inside at Red Door East. So having a deck, if done right, could be a good thing on this particular corner at the Midtown location if they will keep the parking away from the corner.

Edited March 29, 2012 by bwithers1

[Nathan_in_DC]

I can't speak for the other corners, but placing a deck on the corner could actually be good for the area and provide more activation than you might imagine. Red Door's location in East Nashville's 5 Points features a deck at 11th and Forrest that is always crowded. It is something of a biker hangout with lots of bikes dotting 11th Street. This adds quite a bit of conviviality to that corner rather than taking everything inside like at 3Crow or some of the other establishments that might have a patio in the rear but not so much on the street. During good weather there are often more people outside than inside at Red Door East. So having a deck, if done right, could be a good thing on this particular corner at the Midtown location if they will keep the parking away from the corner.

That's actually a great point. Patios and decks on establishments do seem to make a neighborhood more lively. For instance, look at Belcourt in Hillsboro Village. All of the eateries and bars have places to sit outside and relax on their deck, and in my opinion, it really makes it a much more interesting street to walk down on. Not to mention that you get a sense of security if you're walking down it at night. It'd take one heck of a brazen mugger to do something right in front of dozens of people sitting on a deck five feet away.

[nashvylle]

GULCH retail-

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2012/03/30/four-stores-opening-in-the-gulch-this.html

[Nathan_in_DC]

GULCH retail-

http://www.bizjourna...gulch-this.html

"Kocktails & Kouture"... the usage of K instead of C there without any good reason makes me cringe... And what the crap is a "Nightclub style fitness center"?

[donNdonelson]

May as well go ahead and call it "Klassy Kocktails and Kouture" so we can get the whole KKK imagery going...if you want to project a backward, hicksville image, that is!!! This is a seriously STUPID name for a business in what is supposed to be an up-and-coming neighborhood!

[BnaBreaker]

May as well go ahead and call it "Klassy Kocktails and Kouture" so we can get the whole KKK imagery going...if you want to project a backward, hicksville image, that is!!! This is a seriously STUPID name for a business in what is supposed to be an up-and-coming neighborhood!

I agree that it's a weird name, but what does the name of a single business have to do with whether or not the neighborhood it's in is considered "up and coming"?

[donNdonelson]

I agree that it's a weird name, but what does the name of a single business have to do with whether or not the neighborhood it's in is considered "up and coming"?

My point is that the name would not seem so completely inappropriate if it were in a less trendy/hip/up and coming location...but seems remarkably TACKY and out of place in the gulch. I was not raising a question as to whether or not the neighborhood is, indeed, "up and coming." (I think the Gulch is becoming a beautiful part of the city)

[BnaBreaker]

My point is that the name would not seem so completely inappropriate if it were in a less trendy/hip/up and coming location...but seems remarkably TACKY and out of place in the gulch. I was not raising a question as to whether or not the neighborhood is, indeed, "up and coming." (I think the Gulch is becoming a beautiful part of the city)

Ahhh, gotcha. I just wasn't sure of the proper context. I do agree. The name would probably be more at home in an exurban strip mall. I looked at their website though just for the hell of it, and the shop seems pretty trendy and upscale.

[Nathan_in_DC]

All I know is that whoever owns that store should have fired the advertising consultant that ever came up with that name, assuming it wasn't all their own doing of course.

I imagine it being in the aforementioned exurban strip mall with the name printed in Comic Sans on a cheap awning, with a woman with a half set of teeth in a mu mu and curlers swilling down vodka cranberries inside.