Historic Preservation

[timmay143]

Since this has become a hot topic as of lately and has hijacked a thread or two , I thought I'd start a thread for historic preservation for discussion. Maybe worthy of a pin eventually, mods?

Here is an article on the debate of an East Nashville firehouse.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120405/NEWS/304050092/Historic-East-Nashville-fire-hall-awaits-its-own-rescue

[Nathan_in_DC]

Since this has become a hot topic as of lately and has hijacked a thread or two , I thought I'd start a thread for historic preservation for discussion. Maybe worthy of a pin eventually, mods?

Here is an article on the debate of an East Nashville firehouse.

http://www.tennessea...-its-own-rescue

Did they ever make any arrests in regards to who started the fire there? I mean, I'm sure it was just some poor soul who was trying to keep warm, but if I had broken in and started a fire that burned the place down, I'd be prosecuted for trespassing and arson.

But to the topic at hand, I know that $200,000 isn't a terribly large sum of money, but that should have been enough for the community organization to gut the interior and at least make it a shell that is serviceable as a hall space. Heck, they could have probably gotten some contractors to cut you a deal in the work, since it'd be absolutely amazing PR for them, especially considering the number of homes in the area that are being renovated. It'd have been a massive advertisement for their services, and it should be pretty easy to convince them as such.

[bwithers1]

Yes, there were homeless people trying to keep warm in the building who lit fires that burned it down. The same thing that happens to most historic structures in Nashville (especially East Nashville) that are vacant.

In terms of financing, keep in mind that we are talking about Pam Murray. $200,000 went toward something, but it sure wasn't work on the building! No records were ever filed as to how the $200,000 was spent. And almost no other neighborhood organization was given anywhere near that amount. This was during the Purcell administration, when the city was flush with tax dollars and the Council members were given money to spend on neighborhood programs, and many neighborhoods were given around $5,000 to use toward signage and such things.

Is there a conflict involved when a city official allocated a vast amount of taxpayer dollars to a nonprofit organization on which he/she is also on the board? Yup, Yup.

I am not in any way slamming the organization (North Edgefield Organized Neighbors, or NEON). Many people whom I greatly respect had been part of it before, but then key people died and others were less active, and it seems that almost no records were kept and everything went to hell. Then Pam Murray steps back in asserting ownership in order to save face. The building had a Pam Murray election poster on it when it burned!

I am actually hoping that WalMart does get the property, because they have the cash and an incentive to protect the building. Historic Zoning will almost certainly deny a demolition permit. I'm not a WalMart fan, but if you have been part of a small neighborhood-type non-profit, as I currently am, then you know that it is not anybody's full-time job and lots of stuff get dropped between the cracks. I am weary of most non-profits taking over this project unless they are well known, established, and have at least a treasurer on payroll and an attorney of record.

[timmay143]

So sad!! All for a freaking US Bank!!! They apparently reneged on promising to allow preservationists to collect architectural items from the house before it was demolished. Should have been marked as a historical landmark.

Hadley House Demolition:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=415897553287&set=a.415897343287.191330.334374968287&type=1&permPage=1

[bwithers1]

The demolition of the Hadley House was indeed controversial. At the same time, there are now tons of properties on Gallatin nearby this site that are for sale. The fact is that many of these buildings were originally residential and sit on very large lots. As things stand now, they are zoned either commercial/mixed use or in some cases for office use. Really, those property owners are paying commercial property taxes, which are at a much higher tax rate than residential, on what are very large properties that are underutilized for most current commercial and/or office uses. That is to say, there is a narrow pool of commerical or office users who are looking to buy a huge plot of grass on Gallatin Road with a modest mid-century house on it to use for the purposes for which the properties are zoned. If anything, those users (doctors and dentists offices, etc) would naturally want to pave a bunch of the grass for parking and add curb cuts onto Gallatin. Because of this zoning, there is a commercial incentive to sell those properties and tear them down to be replaced by something that is a better fit for the office/commercial zoning.

I'm not saying that this is what I want, I'm just relating what the market forces are like in that zone right now.

Inglewood folks who want to keep the "residential" nature of Gallatin right there need to (and seem to be) come to grips with this commercial fact. And if they want to rezone the properties back to residential, they will have to have the permission of the property owners, who would then have to find buyers for those properties as houses. Another fact is that while a few of the properties are in fact grand Tudors and Colonial Revivals, many of them are simply mid-century ranch homes. And many of them are in a state of disrepair.

I'm all for saving the good/distinctive ones, but some of those buildings do not fall into that category. It truly is a shame that with so many vacant lots and ramshackle properties, that the US Bank branch had to go on the Hadley house. But that is who was selling at the time.

What I will say for the US Bank location: (1) it does comply with the Gallatin Road SP and is built to the street with parking in the rear and a landscape buffer for a more pleasant pedestrian experience, (2) it is a LEED certified building; (3) the branch manager has contributed funds to various neighborhood and crime prevention efforts since they opened and is a member of the Madison area chamber of commerce working to improve Gallatin even north of Briley. So at least in this case the house was not replaced by a mere parking lot or Hair World but rather was replaced by a quality building occupied by a good corporate citizen.

[timmay143]

Well that's some good news to hear. Thanks for the info!! Glad to hear that US Bank did those things. This is one reason why this is an important discussion topic as we always don't know the details. I did notice that the for sale sign had a commercial zoning sign and was wondering about that. Thanks again bwithers1! I'm all for preservation, but sometimes it's not worth it. As long as something with thought and function goes in its place! Of course everyone has their own view and opinion on thought and function, !!

[bwithers1]

Yeah, if only one of the currently vacant and for sale lots would have been vacant and for sale at that particular moment, the bank could have gone to a different location and the house would still be standing. As it stands now, tons of properties are for sale at that end of Gallatin. And I still wish that it were the junky used car lots and car stereo store buildings that were for sale rather than the ones with houses, but not so far.

One positive result of the existing zoning is that there is a large vacant lot for sale where a house once stood (it may have burned or something years ago) about a block south of the US Bank location. There was a potential buyer who wanted to put a Dollar General-type store there. In this case, the zoning helped, because that particular block is zoned for office but not retail. So the well maintained grassy lawn in the middle of that block will stay until an appropriate office user is found.

Edited April 13, 2012 by bwithers1

[timmay143]

Lipscomb is smack in the middle of a residential area with some significant historical value. What would it take for the university to expand...upwards, instead of taking over property, demo, and sprawling outwards??

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120704/DAVIDSON/307040011?fb_comment_id=fbc_10150892454417064_22948425_10150894454117064

[Nathan_in_DC]

Lipscomb is smack in the middle of a residential area with some significant historical value. What would it take for the university to expand...upwards, instead of taking over property, demo, and sprawling outwards??

http://www.tennessea...150894454117064

I have been wrangling with this sort of issue for a while now. My grad school alma mater, Villanova, has been trying to build on campus for years, but has been fighting neighbors who do not want them to have any additional buildings. Every brick laid is turns into a massive process. The majority of times, it's NIMBY naysayers that don't like the fact that the university is there to begin with (even though they're the ones that decided to move right next to a 170 year old college). Many things that they protest against are actually things that would alleviate problems. The community is up in arms because too many students live off campus, so the university tries to build dorms that would bring said students back on campus. Then the community fights building the dorms. Somecommunity hates light pollution and runoff from a large parking lot, so the university proposes turning it in to green space and campus buildings, and building a parking garage that would alleviate the runoff and light pollution. The same members of the community then try to halt this construction, saying it will be an inconvenience and add traffic.

In the vast majority of these cases, these are people that want to have their cake and eat it too. Any time the university wants to expand, grow or improve, they will be up in arms, even if the expansions or improvements will halt the problems that were the source of the original complaints. They're much like the people that got the speed limits reduced on 440 because of noise. The majority of these people chose to live near an interstate highway. It's ridiculous for them to make demands regarding noise, short of negligence on the part of city or state (for instance, removing noise barriers or not keeping them in good repair).

However, there are times that such institutions will expand without proper planning. They'll get a grant for a building or renovation that has certain time sensitive stipulations, so they'll try to throw it up haphazardly without thinking it through all the way, otherwise risking losing the money. And there are times that people do have real concerns. No one wants their house abutting a new dormitory. Maybe when they built or moved in, there was only a green field there. But even then I am forced to ask, "Did you really never take into account that an up-and-coming institution like Villanova/Lipscomb/Vanderbilt/etc. would not ever try to expand?"

[samsonh]

They will expand upwards when it is econpomically the proper thing to do or there is something worth saving. That area is filled with old houses, which while awesome, are not really historical material imo. Lipscomb seems to have done a decent job of expanding thus far, although I noticed recently that they were putting up a brick wall facing 12th. The wall will not fit in and serves to segment the school from the neighborhood. I don't care for it

[timmay143]

From Historic Nashville, Inc.'s facebook page:

http://www.facebook....&type=1

Centerstone / Dede Wallace Building - Located in the Woodland-in-Waverly neighborhood, the Junior League funded the construction of this building in 1928 as a Home for Crippled Children stricken with polio. Until recently it was occupied by Centerstone, a behavior health care company. The historic building is vacant with plans for demolition.

[Nathan_in_DC]

From Historic Nashville, Inc.'s facebook page:

http://www.facebook....&type=1

Here it is on Google Maps: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=36.127358,-86.773589&ll=36.127381,-86.773689&spn=0.001123,0.001635&num=1&t=h&gl=us&z=20

From what I can tell, it looks to be in pretty bad condition, at least on the exterior, and its layout does not appear to be terribly conducive to condos or offices.

Unfortunatley, rehabilitating this building to something useful would most likely be prohibitively expensive.

[East Side Urbanite]

It's a nice old building with classy elements. Will be missed but won't be a major loss.

WW

[UTgrad09]

It's a nice old building with classy elements. Will be missed but won't be a major loss.

WW

Agreed. It's neat, but not significant. I'd love to see it renovated, but this falls more under "just an old building" more than a historic property that needs to be saved.

It's on a pretty large lot...perhaps we can get some worthy development here in the Woodland/Berry Hill area that seems to be gaining steam.

It sits on 6.43 acres.

[bwithers1]

I would vote for office use, mainly because of the visibility to I-65 and its access to Craighead Street, which is not in any way shape or form a residential street. There is a lot of light industrial on that street (not to mention the Sara Lee/Colonial Bakery, the Coke bottling plant and Mrs Grissom's salads), so office/warehouse would most likely fit the existing base zoning most likely. And with that much land, perhaps Nashville could create and market the site for a small office park (hint, hint)?

Plus, with the residential going in at Franklin/Bradford and with the possible project at the Melrose Lanes, that is a lot of residential inventory in the pipeline for that vicinity already.

[samsonh]

I would vote for office use, mainly because of the visibility to I-65 and its access to Craighead Street, which is not in any way shape or form a residential street. There is a lot of light industrial on that street (not to mention the Sara Lee/Colonial Bakery, the Coke bottling plant and Mrs Grissom's salads), so office/warehouse would most likely fit the existing base zoning most likely. And with that much land, perhaps Nashville could create and market the site for a small office park (hint, hint)?

Plus, with the residential going in at Franklin/Bradford and with the possible project at the Melrose Lanes, that is a lot of residential inventory in the pipeline for that vicinity already.

There may be a lot of inventory about to come online in that area, but I would argue that pent up demand in the Melrose area is extremely high. 8th Ave has a ton of potential from Kroger to Division/Gulch area. It will take many years but I foresee the street eventually lined with apartment and condo buildings. I bet the bakery leaves its current location within 5-7 years. That land is going to be extremely valuable one day very soon.

Edited September 10, 2012 by samsonh

[bwithers1]

There may be a lot of inventory about to come online in that area, but I would argue that pent up demand in the Melrose area is extremely high. 8th Ave has a ton of potential from Kroger to Division/Gulch area. It will take many years but I foresee the street eventually lined with apartment and condo buildings. I bet the bakery leaves its current location within 5-7 years. That land is going to be extremely valuable one day very soon.

I agree with you about apartment demand along 8th/Franklin Road. I really think that the residential that is coming in will be a big factor in the push for more/better sidewalks and crosswalks, particularly in the area from Craighead to Berry Road. Residential users will want that, whereas too many of the retail users are currently happy with either no sidewalks at all or lots of curb cuts. The push from the Belmont area east to 12 South is already pushing on toward 8th, so that is coming. Eventually the residents will win out on that one. And Berry Hill's planning/community plan also envisions the street being lined with retail with residential above.

I just think that developers will want to see how quickly some of the existing pipeline gets leased before starting new projects right in there. But that could be a short wait! I also think that the location of this particular property could work for apartments, but with its visibility to the interstate (which creates a lot of noise) and its access to Craighead, which is industrial and gets lots of truck traffic, that this site is is better suited to an office/light industrial use than apartments.

[timmay143]

The Hobson Methodist Church building in East Nashville is going to be reused as a charter school.  From Historic Nashville, Inc.:
 

 Thanks to Debie Cox for sharing this with us. Good news for Hobson UMC in East Nashville. The neighborhood landmark is going to be adaptively re-used as a middle school by Liberty Collegiate charter school.

 
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.nashville.gov/mhc/docs/agendas/mhzc/2012/1219_SR1107Chapel.pdf

 

[UTgrad09]

^^^
Cool. That is a good use of re-use (lol). It's an attractive building (I actually like the chapel in the back, better), and I think a school is ideal for a building such as an old church. And as a student, I always enjoyed being in the older, more quirky buildings than the brand new ones. Hopefully it will be a great environment for the kids.

Google Street View from Chapel Ave

I think I like this side even better. A little bit of landscaping would go a long way, though.

Also, nice link. Some good words from our own bwithers there.  

Once the modular building is no longer needed, the school should have a nice little campus area.

[timmay143]

Yeah, I saw the backside too and also really liked it.  I didn't know bwithers was in it!  Got to make it to a meeting.  Planning on, well, now that I think about it, I could make this weeks cause I fly out of Nashville on Sunday.  So I could come a day earlier.  If not, February it will be.

[bwithers1]

^^^

Cool. That is a good use of re-use (lol). It's an attractive building (I actually like the chapel in the back, better), and I think a school is ideal for a building such as an old church. And as a student, I always enjoyed being in the older, more quirky buildings than the brand new ones. Hopefully it will be a great environment for the kids.

Google Street View from Chapel Ave

I think I like this side even better. A little bit of landscaping would go a long way, though.

Also, nice link. Some good words from our own bwithers there.  

Once the modular building is no longer needed, the school should have a nice little campus area.

Thanks, all.  I can't tell you how relieved I am that someone is willing to come in and save this building.  Historic church buildings are quite difficult to re-use, particularly ones that are in such a state of disrepair.  There was definately controversy surrounding this one, but our neighborhood is working through that.  I do think that this will be a nice campus for a school.  The front of this building (pictured above) is the "new" portion of the building from 1929-1930.  The school will primarily be using the back portion, which includes the original Chapel for which Chapel Avenue was named.  That strcture goes back to the 1870s!

[timmay143]

A nice "tour" of Glen Oak.  A Victorian (?) "Gothic Revival" house in Nashville's Hillsboro-West End neighborhood.
 
http://www.styleblueprint.com/home-and-garden/glen-oaks-circa/
 

[timmay143]

Cool.  Songwriter purchases SoBro building
 
http://www.musicrow.com/2013/01/songwriter-purchases-nashville-building-plans-entertainment-venue/ 
 
 
 

 Songwriter Brett James recently purchased a Nashville building for $2.6 million, with plans to turn the space into a restaurant and entertainment venue.

The building is located at 400 4th Avenue South and was formerly St. Paul’s A.M.E. church, before becoming offices for EOA Architects.

[BnaBreaker]

Here is an article from a Knoxville website about historic preservation.  It is a fantastic read, and in my opinion, applies very directly to Nashville.

 

[http://www.metropulse.com/news/2013/jan/16/whats-historicand-who-says-nine-practical-reasons

[timmay143]

Here is an article from a Knoxville website about historic preservation.  It is a fantastic read, and in my opinion, applies very directly to Nashville.

 

[http://www.metropulse.com/news/2013/jan/16/whats-historicand-who-says-nine-practical-reasons

 

Ah, you beat me to it!  I have it open waiting to fully read.  It's been there for about a week :/