241 replies to this topic

[Mij]

Garris, on Mar 15 2005, 02:13 PM, said:

Terrific map.  This is probably the most realistic and useful proposal.  E-mail it to the mayor!

- Garris

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Garris,
since im new i was wondering how often the group does send messages to the mayor or city councel or any of the public figures out there?

[Cotuit]

Mij, on Mar 15 2005, 03:43 PM, said:

since im new i was wondering how often the group does send messages to the mayor or city councel or any of the public figures out there?

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We never have formally as a group. But it is something that we could consider. I've been meaning to send the Mayor an email or something letting him know about our discussions. I doubt he'd have the time to join us, but he'd probably have a staffer read up on what we're talking about.

[Mij]

Cotuit, on Mar 15 2005, 05:04 PM, said:

We never have formally as a group. But it is something that we could consider. I've been meaning to send the Mayor an email or something letting him know about our discussions. I doubt he'd have the time to join us, but he'd probably have a staffer read up on what we're talking about.

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Im all for it, I think the mayor could only see it as asset or a pipe line of comunication. He seems to care about that. He often has the public forums in person to here the concerns from locals. I sure the mayor would have no need for some of this info but be that as it may, i hope to here about some sort of connection some time soon...

[pdxstreetcar]

Regarding the Providence Light Rail...
I am a little unsure which street(s) would be the best to use for light rail to get downtown. It probably would be best not to close off any streets completely for LRT (after the failure of the Westminster Mall and Buffalo, NY's LRT-only Main Street). I think Weybosset is probably the best bet since I think it is a little wider (the other options would be Washington & Westminster). I suppose a one-way couplet of tracks would be another good option using two streets.

I seperated the line going to Pawtucket and East Providence because the East Providence line would need approaches to reach the elevated west tunnel portal, so I thought have it run elevated crossing over Canal & N. Main (as the old RR line did) but have it swing by the Amtrak station to get around the Citizens bank Tower and serve an important connection. It could then run via Exchange St between Kennedy Plaza and the Amtrak station. The Pawtucket route would want to run at-grade and likely continue along the current #99 bus route (outbound via Washington St. to N. Main and inbound via Canal St. to Steeple St.)

I envisioned the downtown streetcar to loop around the financial part of downtown, run down Dorrance St. into the Jewelry District then head east on Power Street, cross the Power Street bridge and run down Wickenden street to Governor Street (where the road widens which would be good for a stub end terminal to reverse directions). When the streetcar is running inbound to downtown, I was thinking it would turn off Dorrance onto Weybosset, run past the Arcade and then loop into Kennedy Plaza, then turn on to Dorrance and head south. The current Green Line trolley would then no longer go to Wickenden and instead go to Wayland Square.

[Cotuit]

pdxstreetcar, on Mar 15 2005, 07:54 PM, said:

I seperated the line going to Pawtucket and East Providence because the East Providence line would need approaches to reach the elevated west tunnel portal, so I thought have it run elevated crossing over Canal & N. Main (as the old RR line did) but have it swing by the Amtrak station to get around the Citizens bank Tower and serve an important connection.  It could then run via Exchange St between Kennedy Plaza and the Amtrak station.  The Pawtucket route would want to run at-grade and likely continue along the current #99 bus route (outbound via Washington St. to N. Main and inbound via Canal St. to Steeple St.)

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That's similar to my thoughts on the East Side tunnel, though I think most people would have a cow if you told them you were going to build an elevated rail line over North Main and Canal again.

[pdxstreetcar]

I agree NIMBYs will block progress, although the only people who likely would have a fit over it would be the people living in those new condos above Mills Tavern and on the corner of Thomas/Steeple & Main, but theyll already be up in arms over losing their parking. i dont know how you could reopen the tunnel without an elevated approach (unless you do extensive regrading both inside and outside the tunnel to bring it down to the level of N. Main.).


Also RIPTA needs Light Rail to give it a new image, right now RIPTA is seen as a social service for the poor. Yet in Boston, the T has a great image in that even people with cars ride it (its just the service quality image thats lacking there).

I would say that Providence is one of the US cities that really should have a light rail system. There are cities that build LRT where it really doesnt make sense but Providence is not one of these cities.

Edited by pdxstreetcar, 15 March 2005 - 08:27 PM.

[Cotuit]

Explanations to follow...

[Cotuit]

OK, this is the light rail/streetcar convergence on Downtown Providence. I'll be working on another map later to lay out the entire Rhode Island-wide system I'm thinking about.

From the East Side Tunnel:
Two maybe three lines converge in East Providence to enter the East Side Tunnel. One line would come up the East Bay along the East Bay Bikepath. There should be room to allow for both the light rail and the bikepath, I'd have to look more into actual conditions on the ground to route it exactly.

One line would come up Route 195 from Fall River and make it's way to the East Side Tunnel through downtown EP. This would have to be grade seperated to make it work as a commuter line from FR, perhaps calling for an EP subway.

The third line could head toward Pawtucket or toward Seekonk.

North Main/Pawtucket Line
This line starts in downtown Pawtucket and makes it's way to and down North Main. It leaves North Main and heads down Randall, to Orms and Smith and then on down to the Providence Train Station. The section where Exchange Street doesn't reach all the way to Gaspee Street beside the train station is where the streetcar stop would be.

Smith Street Line
I'm not sure where this line should end up, it perhaps should turn down Chalkstone, but staying on Smith will send it up to RIC.

Broadway Line
This line heads out to Olneyville, once it hits Olneyville I'm not sure what to do with it.

Route 2/Elmwood Line
This line starts out at the Warwick Mall and travels up Route 2in an elevated median. Once it hits Elmwood, I'm hoping there is room for a seperate median for the trolleys. Once it reaches Weybosset it runs with regular traffic.

Eddy Street/Airport Line
This line starts at T.F. Green and uses the Amtrak right of way up to Eddy Street (part of that right of way is also an active frieght line. Once on Eddy it would most likely run in traffic.

Allens Ave./Harborside Line
Not sure how far down to send this, but it would serve the J&W Harborside Campus and the new Peter Griffin Soccer Stadium. It joins the Eddy Street Line south of Davol Square.



Ideally I would like to see the Kennedy Plaza section of this system be underground. There would be a portal for the East Side Tunnel, North Main, and Smith Street lines on Exchange Street next to the triangular parcel with the sculptures on it, there should be room to allow traffic to pass and have a portal. The Broadway Line portal would be near the Holiday Inn. The Weybosset Portal would be between Franklin and Weybosset Hill Stations, and the Allen/Eddy Portal would be at the southern end of Dorrance Street. This would all be very expensive though, so maybe just a few lines would be sent underground at Kennedy Plaza, allowing for less portals.

[pdxstreetcar]

^
How about a subway under Westminster (or Washington) through all of downtown other than the $$$$$$??

Edited by pdxstreetcar, 15 March 2005 - 08:50 PM.

[Cotuit]

pdxstreetcar, on Mar 15 2005, 09:50 PM, said:

^
How about a subway under Westminster (or Washington) through all of downtown other than the $$$$$$??

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If it weren't for the pesky money concern, I'd say screw light rail, and build a deep bore tunnel Washington Metro-style subway system.

[Cotuit]

pdxstreetcar, on Mar 15 2005, 09:10 PM, said:

Also RIPTA needs Light Rail to give it a new image, right now RIPTA is seen as a social service for the poor.  Yet in Boston, the T has a great image in that even people with cars ride it (its just the service quality image thats lacking there).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this 100%. RIPTA need a better image and better branding. The LA Metro has been doing a lot with the looks of their buses. Different paint schemes to denote if a bus is local or express or what-have-you. As an example:



My brand for RIPTA would be "The WAVE." RIPTA already uses this 'Catch/Ride the wave' idea somewhat. But I would actually have a WAVE system. The trolley/LRT's would be "WAVErail" or "WAVEtrolley" or something like that. The current LINK trolleys would morph into the "WAVEbus" or "WAVEshuttle." The Providence streetcars would be supplemented by an expanded and reimagined version of the current LINK trolleys. WAVEbuses would have a distinct look, probably a unique vehicle smaller than a regular bus to show their frequent and shuttle-like service. They would be done up in a bright colour, a teal or somesort of ocean-y colour, with large graphics, obviously a wave and WAVEbus printed on them. There would be WAVEbuses in various parts of the state, the Newport Trolleys would become WAVEbuses, summer beach buses would be WAVEbuses, Woonsocket and Pawtucket would probably have at least one WAVEbus downtown loop route. This would be the flashy, splashy part of RIPTA that would entice visitors and commuters. We would continue to have the large buses plying routes throughout the city and state that serve residents, they would be nice, but not need to be as flashy. Similar looking to what we have now.

A whole marketing scheme could then be built around this idea of The WAVE. We certainly have enough creative types around here to create the brand and market it.

[Soren]

Cotuit, I love the rail map and the marketing scheme for RIPTA. It took me three times looking at the map before I caught the Peter Griffen Stadium stop!

[Cotuit]

Soren, on Mar 16 2005, 04:13 PM, said:

It took me three times looking at the map before I caught the Peter Griffen Stadium stop! 

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[Cotuit]

I updated my map above to include possible WAVEbus routes.

The GREEN Line:
Similar to the current green line, starts in Eagle Square (possibly at Rising Sun) and heads down Atwells to LaSalle Square. In LaSalle it heads down Empire (now two-ways, which is currently in the works) to Washington. Washington to Kennedy Plaza, over the Washington bridge which will include a reversable bus lane per pdxstreetcars idea. Bus tunnel extended under Thayer to Brook Street. Then it will use Angell and Waterman to head to Wayland Square, and then Eastside Marketplace.

The BLUE Line:
Hope Village down Hope Street to Brook, and then into the Bus Tunnel, Washington into Kennedy Plaza. Weybosset and Westminster to the Westside (Weybosset would probably be two-way, which is currently proposed, but I like the idea of at least some sort of transit on Westminster, Westminster is re-opened through Cathedral Square). Then Westminster into Olneyville Square, which is now a hip restaurant and shopping area.

The GOLD Line:
The gold line runs in a loop around downtown, connecting to the various spokes of the WAVEbuses and WAVEtrolleys. Wickenden Street over the Point Street bridge to Davol Square. Up to Westminster Crossing, Dean Street to Federal Hill and the Promenade. Pleasant Valley Parkway, Smith Hill, the State House. Up to University Heights and back down Hope Street to Wickenden.


Not included on the map is the idea of a Water Taxi down the Providence River (WAVEboat?). If we were to have a Soccer Stadium, and/or an Aquarium, and/or Heritage Harbor down toward the Jewelry District, it might be popular to get to those attractions by Water Taxi from the Waterplace Basin and the Hotels around the convention centre. I would also move the Newport Ferry Pier outside the hurricane barrier to an area near the proposed Peter Griffin Stadium (which I believe is the current long range plan as the Coast Guard really doesn't like the high speed ferry navigating the hurricane barrier), so the Water Taxis would also connect to that. As the East Providence waterfront develops, we could see more Water Taxis crossing the Upper Bay.

[glassandsteel]

Cotuit, on Mar 16 2005, 09:48 PM, said:

"I would also move the Newport Ferry Pier outside the hurricane barrier to an area near the proposed Peter Griffin Stadium." 

"As the East Providence waterfront develops, we could see more Water Taxis crossing the Upper Bay."

If there is ever a stadium built around the Jewelry district, you know that we'll always refer to it as Peter Griffin Stadium because of this forum.
Also, I had never thought about water taxis becoming practical but it makes sense if you're going to East Providence. Wow. Never thought about it. That would be amazing. Just not in the fall or winter.

[Cotuit]

glassandsteel, on Mar 17 2005, 02:12 AM, said:

If there is ever a stadium built around the Jewelry district...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When a stadium is built.

[pdxstreetcar]

So what the latest with RIPTA? Trolleys going to 30 minute schedule???
One way they could bring in at least a little more money is by implementing a zone fare system. Its kinda ridiculous that you can go from Providence to Newport for $1.50 when it costs that much to go one stop. But really this transit funding mess thats not only happening here but across the country, has to be fixed.

Just wondering if anyone knew anymore because I heard a little on the news and I noticed Cotuit's new sig.

[Cotuit]

I posted a link to an article in ProJo in this thread. They want to cut service to, or cut entirely, 53 routes. This includes cutting the trolleys to every 30 minutes making them in effect useless. The savings they get from all these cuts is like 2% of their budget shortfall and will only serve to create a larger budget shortfall next year.

The fare hike I'm sure is costing them money, personally I've been taking the buses and trolleys as little as possible since (and I don't have a car!).

The mayors of Providence, Warwick, Cranston, Pawtucket, Central Falls, and Newport need to march up to Smith Hill, grab the President of RIPTA and the Governor, lock them in a room, and beat the living sh!t out of them. This is ridiculous, we are the most urban state in the country, we can't keep cutting our transit service to save money, it needs to be funded, no excuses!

[Cotuit]

I made this one too:



I was thinking of making bumper stickers for all the General Assembly members.

[pdxstreetcar]

East Side Rail Tunnel East Portal: