Virginia Beach Schools and education

[wrldcoupe4]

careful! they might be watching

[hoobo]

They still have too many portables! Landstown is a new H.S. and its has portables. What is wrong with this picture. There should be no portables on a fairly new school.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Every school has portables. They stick the ISS kids and health classes out there. No reason to use up real classroom space. Landstown is set to receive a 20-classroom addition and will accept students from Kellam. Ocean Lakes will get a 12-classroom addition and will also take Kellam kids. Green Run will receive students from PA as the former is undercapacity and the latter is somehwhat over capacity. These changes should bring VB high schools back to their goal of being under 10% overcapacity. With declining enrollment, VB is reluctant to move on a new HS.

[rusthebuss]

It was never built to handle the capacity that it had when it was built. I did some work there after it opened. It has awesome labs and woodworking shops. I have a buddy that teaches there.

[PeninsulaKiddo]

I don't think that students trapped in trailers is a phenomenon particularly unique to VB either, or this region for that matter. Tabb High is the only school in York County that hasn't had portables used in over 3 years. All 3 of the others have (we're just more hardy---we suck up the overcrowding ). York is being totally gutted and renovated after 40-some years and now the whole school is in trailers. Bruton went through the same thing 2 years ago. Grafton's too new for that and they were built for "capacity in 2010" or some b/s. They're already over by about 200 kids or something.

One of my good friends goes to Princess Anne. It's a good school with very good people... lots of very good people. Lots of people. LOTS OF PEOPLE EVERYWHERE. I think it is the largest public school in our region in enrollment.. can anyone confirm that? It makes Tabb (1350 students) look like a private tea party.

[metalman]

Wrldcoupe, It's not totally up to date but to get an idea, the total school enrollment in Virginia Beach city was 125,000 in 2002. I'm sure it's grown every year.

Metalman

[metalman]

Princess Anne High School has an enrollment of 2,250

And for comparison, when I graduated from PAHS in 1997, the enrollment was 1,933.......damn. I can't imagine another 300 kids at that school. I was a great school though. Loved it alot....good times, good times.

[hoobo]

Wrldcoupe, It's not totally up to date but to get an idea, the total school enrollment in Virginia Beach city was 125,000 in 2002.  I'm sure it's grown every year.

Metalman

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where are you getting that figure? VB Schools Facts & Figures puts enrollment at 74,682 for 04-05 and that number is expecting to decline 1%/yr through at least the 2011-2012 year.

[wrldcoupe4]

why the decline?

[hoobo]

why the decline?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

VB Schools peaked around 78,000 around 2000. First, my generation are the children of the baby boomers, so the population is aging. Second, VB growth has slowed considerably since the 80's. For example, VB grew only by 8.5% between 1990 and 2000. It's expected to grow even more slowly during this decade. An aging population and slow growth rate resultin fewer students. This trend is found in most districts with slow growth.

[vdogg]

ODU to expand in Virginia Beach

Starting in the fall , some Old Dominion University students will be able to take all of the classes for their degrees at the school

[hoobo]

I wonder if this will be an eventual move to a fully autonomous college like what happened between W&M and ODU. I can see ODU moving up in the Commonwealth's tiered college system to the second tier alongside JMU and Mary Washington and above GMU and VCU. A VB university can take over the spot vacated by ODU. For VB, there's always the Municipal Center option as well as empty land in Lake Ridge.

BTW, unless things have changed, I believe Hampton U has one or two complete master's programs at its TC facility.

[hoobo]

TCC questions ODU's expansion plans

TCC is a 2-year school whose students upon receipt of an Associate's degree can continue towards a Bachelor's degree at a 4-year institution. However, TCC is not supposed to be a primary feeder school for a 4-year school. That's the role of high schools. Therefore, ODU's goal in offering bachelor's degrees in their entirety is aimed at students who desire their bachelor's degree, have the time to maintain course credit requirements, qualify for admission, and can afford it. TCC is meant for persons who do not meet one of those four qualifiers. Then why does TCC have a problem with ODU's expansion? Their missions are different.

My hope is that ODU's VB center becomes a separate accredited college. As part of that development, the new college would gobble TCC's current VB campus. TCC would then move its VB campus to Pembroke emulating the one in downtown Norfolk. TCC would be in a more central location to serve its VB population.

[vdogg]

As a current student of TCC I find their objections troubling. What they fail to mention is that the classes at ODU will on average cost more than TCC. Many of the students, including myself, attend TCC because it is far cheaper to get those introductory classes there than at a 4-year institution. It doesn't matter if ODU offers classes in the same building, as long as TCC remains cheaper, they will lose little to no students over this. I look at ODUs offering 4 year degrees in total as a benefit to those Va. Beach residents who do not wish or need to go the TCC route and who have difficulties making it out to ODUs main campus.

[rusthebuss]

New TCC science facility is much more than just a planetarium with classrooms, labs

[pipdo]

Every school has portables. They stick the ISS kids and health classes out there. No reason to use up real classroom space. Landstown is set to receive a 20-classroom addition and will accept students from Kellam.

Yeah, but on top of the 20 new classrooms Landstown's getting, they're also getting 18 portables (well 15, so 18 total). Of course, this could just be because of the construction, but it's supposed to be mostly completed by the start of the 06-07 year. But even with the new space, some of the freshmen next year have to share lockers (normally everyone gets their own there) because LHS will be overcrowded. So I don't know...

[vdogg]

Beach may close 2 elementary schools

The city should consider closing two elementary schools based on falling enrollments in the southern half of the city, a School Board committee informally agreed Monday. Which schools could close, and when, is not yet known. A consultant recommending a 10-year building plan for Virginia Beach City Public Schools said the identified schools would likely be south of or near Interstate 264.

Tracy Richter, president of the Ohio educational planning firm DeJong Richter, said the closings are needed to compensate for some of 4,500 vacant seats that elementary schools are expected to have in 10 years. Closing two schools would leave enough room to handle growth and future initiatives such as full-day kindergarten, Richter said.

[metalman]

School for blacks- Desegregated- closed in '69- Reoped as Center for Effective Learning-

Will be razed for new and improved Renaissance Academy

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?...&ran=151675

[scm]

Beach schools below state and national averages

This graphic was in today's VP, and I found it interesting that when it comes to SAT scores, Beach students score lower than not only the national average, they score below the state average. They may be the best in South HR, but I never hear any political outcry to improve Beach schools to above the national average. I can't see an acceptable excuse -- certainly average incomes, parental education levels, and all of the other socio-economic factors that are always at play behind these numbers --- all favor the beach. Any ideas on why the lack of political attention to this? The common wisdom is that Beach schools (and for that matter, Chesapeake as well) are good public schools. Reality is that they are below average -- yet no outcry?

[hoobo]

Beach schools below state and national averages

This graphic was in today's VP, and I found it interesting that when it comes to SAT scores, Beach students score lower than not only the national average, they score below the state average. They may be the best in South HR, but I never hear any political outcry to improve Beach schools to above the national average. I can't see an acceptable excuse -- certainly average incomes, parental education levels, and all of the other socio-economic factors that are always at play behind these numbers --- all favor the beach. Any ideas on why the lack of political attention to this? The common wisdom is that Beach schools (and for that matter, Chesapeake as well) are good public schools. Reality is that they are below average -- yet no outcry?

[scm]

Cox, FC, PA, Ocean Lakes, Kempsville, and Kellam probably have high scores than Tallwood, Salem, Bayside, Green Run, and Landstown.

[hoobo]

Are saying that as long as some of VB schools are better than other VB schools, then everything is OK? Why shouldn't the standard be that EVERY school needs to be at the state average, at a minimum?

[RJWGMU]

Regardless, keep in mind that 1) the SAT just changed dramatically in its design and 2) many school now do not even consider it as a reliable tool.

[hoobo]

I also wanted to add that the SAT is a test that can be mastered by learning how to identify trick question and how to eliminate answers to increase your chance of receiving a higher score. Perhaps students in NoVa or in other parts of the country receive more SAT taking practice.

Now, I also see what you're getting at with this, scm. If students and parents are equal across all groups, then the lower scores must be the result of less capable teachers or an inferior curriculum. If the rationale is that VB underpays teachers; and therefore, loses better teachers to other districts, I can buy that. But from my experience, I believe I received an excellent education in VB public schools. Then again, I'm probably wrong because the statistics don't support me and how can I be smart when I allow myself to be baited by you time and time again.

In any event, I believe AP and IB scores would be a better comparison tool especially at the national level. SOLs can be used for in-state comparison, but again, students in AP classes are usually excused from taking the respective subject's SOL. Thinking back, I may be mistaken about IB students, because if I remember correctly, friends at PA in the IB program did take the respective SOL tests. That's why Cox had lower SOL scores than PA and other schools.

[adctvmonkey]

I agree with hoobo. I live in the Hayfield High school district in Fairfax County, which was one of the worst high schools in the county and below state standards grade-wise across the board, although things have improved because of more investment from the County. The thing is, although my neighborhood and the surrounding area is very affluent and cosmopolitan, the Eastern portion of the County simply has the lesser schools (i.e. West Potomac, Mount Vernon, and Hayfield), while the overwhelming majority western portion has excellent schools. It has been like this for the past 20-30 years. Hayfield has a F/R rate of around 30%, which shocked me when I moved here. It seems that people just take it because there's plenty of better schools (22 out of 25 excluding the bad three) to be found in the County, and the affluent who do live in the lesser districts simply send their children to private schools. Improving the bad ones isn't a large priority.

[scm]

OK, Dr. Analytical is back. Listened to the criticisms about SATs not being a valid comparison (too open to gaming, self selection, etc.) -- and about the difficulty of comparing schools due to differing socio-economic status (SES). So, decided to compare VB schools to the most directly comparable division in the state -- Fairfax County. I decided to construct "peer" schools -- schools with similar free lunch eligible percentages (a well accepted proxy for SES) and minority percentages. I then combined the latest SOL scores (math + reading) to get a composite. The data is in the table below. There are some schools left out -- OL, Tallwood and PA don't have direct peers, and on the back side, adctvmonkey is right -- Hayfield is abysmal, and frankly, an anomaly for FC schools. Same free lunch % as Fairfax's South Lakes HS, yet 42% lower SOL composite pass rates! You can throw stones at my decision, but it doesn't change the overall analysis. This isn't a comparison of the districts in aggregate -- that is almost impossible. It is an attempt to match like to like -- then make the comparison.

The interesting thing in here is that VB HSs with high free lunch % do the same as, or better than, their FC peers. Where the gap is, is in the schools with low free lunch %. There is no comparison in VB to TJ -- so I didn't try. But when you look at Kellam vs. McLean, they have identical free lunch %s, yet a 14 point gap in composite SOL scores. The gap almost consistently favors FC (Cox is 1 pt. better than its FC peer) until you get to 20% free lunch percentages -- then the VB schools are better, or at least equal to, their FC peer HS.

The conclusion I came to is the same one I had before -- where VB falls down isn't at the bottom, it is at the top. The schools that have the SES advantage don't perform well, in comparison to similar VA schools. It shows in the SAT scores against their peers, it shows in the SOl pass rates. You can come to your own conclusion as to why there is no outcry. I have mine.