The State of Downtown Grand Rapids Retail

[GRFuture]

I've never seen any of these cart vendors. o_o

I doubt any are operating this time of year, though.

The carts are still out, we had a couple of dogs after leaving mojo's saturday night.

[GRDadof3]

I've never seen any of these cart vendors. o_o

I doubt any are operating this time of year, though.

The caption under the photo of the cart vendor guy says:

Jacob Knight sells hot dogs at Ionia Avenue and Fulton Street after a recent event at Van Andel Arena. And he looks like he's dressed for cold weather.

It does sound like the ordinance that would allow them to be in a fixed location, but that might hurt the night vendor guys who like to be on the move to follow the bar crowds. They (Pratt and Fowler) hope to meet with vendors and restaurant owners some more to craft a policy that works and that keeps the sidewalks teaming with activity.

[gvsusean]

why fix whats not broken???

[Veloise]

why fix whats not broken???

Presently the ordinance required "movement," i.e. pushing the cart along the sidewalk. And it allows, say, the hot dog carts to set up in front of the entrance of, for instance, Dog Pit. It also stipulates a closing time that's considerably earlier than is practical.

Crafting legislation is a dynamic process. Presumably DT GR did not have a lively nightlife when the mobile vendor regs were first developed. We do now, so it makes no sense to have a law on the books that stipulates no transient sales after 10 pm.

HTH

[wingbert]

Presently the ordinance required "movement," i.e. pushing the cart along the sidewalk. And it allows, say, the hot dog carts to set up in front of the entrance of, for instance, Dog Pit. It also stipulates a closing time that's considerably earlier than is practical.

Crafting legislation is a dynamic process. Presumably DT GR did not have a lively nightlife when the mobile vendor regs were first developed. We do now, so it makes no sense to have a law on the books that stipulates no transient sales after 10 pm.

HTH

The only parts of the proposed new rules I think are a bit zany are these:

• "Fowler and Pratt recently unveiled a set of proposed rules that would allow the vendors to operate until 2:30 a.m. from fixed carts or kiosks in designated areas around downtown and along Bridge Street."
  
• "Idema also questions a proposed rule that would require vendors to operate year-round. She operates her business from May through November."
  

Why only until 2:30? If there's no business after that, they'll close up on their own and if there is business after that, why stop them from providing service. As for the year-round rule, that can't be serious. Unless they're going to let these folks set up their carts in the skywalk, where are they going to work in the dead of winter?

The other rules appear to make sense.

[Veloise]

The only parts of the proposed new rules I think are a bit zany are these:

• "Fowler and Pratt recently unveiled a set of proposed rules that would allow the vendors to operate until 2:30 a.m. from fixed carts or kiosks in designated areas around downtown and along Bridge Street."
  
• "Idema also questions a proposed rule that would require vendors to operate year-round. She operates her business from May through November."
  

Why only until 2:30? If there's no business after that, they'll close up on their own and if there is business after that, why stop them from providing service. As for the year-round rule, that can't be serious. Unless they're going to let these folks set up their carts in the skywalk, where are they going to work in the dead of winter?

The other rules appear to make sense.

I can think of one recent oddball example when DT street vendors 24/7 and January might have been quite welcome. No telling if folks would have stepped out of their place in line.

It doesn't seem logical to require these operations year-round any more than mandating that they be out and selling certain or minimal days per week. The ones with heated socks and ambition deserve to reap the profits.

[GRDadof3]

Not to stray off the vendor topic too much, but this new store sure adds a lot of life to that historically moribund corner. Saw quite a few shoppers with bags entering and leaving.

[phan8787]

i was just thinking today in classes that its ridiculous that GR doesnt have an Urban Outfitters. Maybe they could put one downtown to have some more retail and shopping, plus itd be great for all the new apts going up, plus kids from Pew would go there all the time. I was thinkin maybe something in the dirt pile by fulton and commerce right by louis.

something like this would fit in nicley w/ GR

http://hongkong.neuerordner.de/bilder/urba...rs-IMG_0047.jpg

let me know what you think

[GRDadof3]

i was just thinking today in classes that its ridiculous that GR doesnt have an Urban Outfitters. Maybe they could put one downtown to have some more retail and shopping, plus itd be great for all the new apts going up, plus kids from Pew would go there all the time. I was thinkin maybe something in the dirt pile by fulton and commerce right by louis.

something like this would fit in nicley w/ GR

http://hongkong.neuerordner.de/bilder/urba...rs-IMG_0047.jpg

let me know what you think

Welcome phan8787! I definitely think an Urban Outfitters would do well in downtown GR, "if" it was part of a bigger development like this one I saw in D.C. (the whole corner is one big mixed-use project):

Urban Outfitters, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's and IKEA seem to be brought up a lot as far as retailers everyone is hot after. Has anyone noticed the new "Urban.something" store in Rivertown Crossings? (Urban?) Oh wait, it's called Urban Behavior.

[Veloise]

Secret weapon in the retail strategy toolbox: the tuba

http://tinyurl.com/2kyprq

[joeDowntown]

Hi all-

I am in Sydney, Australia right now and one of the things I have noticed is their use of signs. I think one bad thing about the BCBS building (where Independent and Schuler's are located) is that is an awkward building for signage, partly because of the big overhang. In Sydney, these overhangs are everywhere and they have figured out a good solution to give businesses visibilty:

Not only does this remind me of the Steketee's building overhang, I think this would give Schuler's (and others) some greatly needed visibility.

Joe

[Veloise]

...

I am in Sydney, Australia right now and one of the things I have noticed is their use of signs. I think one bad thing about the BCBS building (where Independent and Schuler's are located) is that is an awkward building for signage, partly because of the big overhang. In Sydney, these overhangs are everywhere and they have figured out a good solution to give businesses visibilty:

Not only does this remind me of the Steketee's building overhang, I think this would give Schuler's (and others) some greatly needed visibility.

Originally posted 10/27:

[Rhino6885]

Wow...add a few banners and the signs under the overhang and Monroe Center could look a lot like Joe's pic. It's amazing what signage will do.

[fotoman311]

Originally posted 10/27:

Yes but it's not lit up or nearly as easily readable as those other signs. In that picture it's really hard to even make out the SCH. It's fine if you know it's there, but it's not very good for attracting traffic inside.

[phan8787]

Well, the only thing is bringing in a different kind of retain downtown. upperclass and edgy would fit those who are moving downtown, and i think that demographic dig small, boutique like stores. I was thinking maybe some high end furniture galleries that feature the best of Grap's furniture companies. I don't know, Im no expert.

[joeDowntown]

Agreed. I have been to Schuler's four times since they opened and honestly didn't notice this sign. These signs really make a heckuva difference. It seems to be the standard here in Sydney, but doesn't look gawdy at all. I was thinking a wide lit sign that says "SCHULER BOOKS AND CAFE" would do wonders. Add an Independent Bank sign and Blue Cross Blue Shield and you would totally know what was in this building.

Joe

Yes but it's not lit up or nearly as easily readable as those other signs. In that picture it's really hard to even make out the SCH. It's fine if you know it's there, but it's not very good for attracting traffic inside.

[Allison Slater]

I told Reynolds Sporting Goods today they should consider stocking some winter gear. Looked more like a shoe store when I walked in today.

And as far as I know: There are two places to buy gloves downtown. I checked because I was COLD. The men's store on Ottawa sells casmere-lined gloves for $60-$100. (No thanks. They didn't look like they'd keep me warm after 10 minutes outside anyhow.) The RAPID Central Station sells gloves at a MUCH more affordable price, but appeared to be simply a knitted glove with nothing else to it.. wouldn't keep me warm after 3 minutes outside.

Thick winter gloves (such as sporting gloves or nicer-styled gloves with a thickness of material greater than a few millimetres) still don't exist downtown.

But as far as having gloves at all, seems sad that a BUS STATION outdoes the entire downtown area.

[Veloise]

...

But as far as having gloves at all, seems sad that a BUS STATION outdoes the entire downtown area.

Try the Good Will on Division. Most of the GW stores have featured racks of new gloves (still with hang tags) and they tend to be made of fleece, other technical fabrics.

Might have earmuffs, too.

HTH

[Allison Slater]

Good idea, I didn't think of them, nor did any of the other retailers downtown.

[GR Jackson]

I like the idea of more visibility, but I don't like the lighted plastic look. I would prefer a wood sign with a not so visible light mounted on the ceiling on either side shining on it.

[Veloise]

On Saturday I went to Meijer Gardens with some friends. (This would be the botanical attraction that's located in GR Township.)

The seasonal display includes a train layout (someone tell me the scale; each car is 12 or 16" long), and the track is decorated with replica buildings. Interestingly, and ironically, there are no suburban lifestyle centers, no Waterfall Plaza pedestrian debacle, no beltline. Here are a few of them:

If I were promoting DT, I would be taking full advantage of this.

Someone needs to bring the layout folk DT to help them understand which buildings are where...

Edited December 3, 2007 by Veloise

[GRDadof3]

On Saturday I went to Meijer Gardens with some friends. (This would be the botanical attraction that's located in GR Township.)

The seasonal display includes a train layout (someone tell me the scale; each car is 12 or 16" long), and the track is decorated with replica buildings. Interestingly, and ironically, there are no suburban lifestyle centers, no Waterfall Plaza pedestrian debacle, no beltline. Here are a few of them:

If I were promoting DT, I would be taking full advantage of this.

Someone needs to bring the layout folk DT to help them understand which buildings are where...

With our family membership there, we usually end up taking the kids to see the Polar Express train every year. My wife thinks I'm a big dork because I can name all the little building models, which are very nicely done btw.

Speaking of retail, or Monroe Center, or Rosa Parks Circle, I see that the RPC Ice Skating Rink opens this coming Friday. Anyone know where they are going to house the skate rentals?

[Allison Slater]

They should market those little models. I saw some Chicago christmas village buildings at a Hallmark a few weeks ago and desperately wanted to buy one. << There was an Empire State Building too, but I didn't like it. It was too small. A practical size. Personally if I have an Empire State Building, it's gotta be huge.

As for scale... at 12-16" I'd guess O Scale. One of the larger scales. A shame, I much prefer HO or N. At O there's typically a lot more room for detail that isn't taken advantage of, and actually looks cheaper than the smaller models where large details are forced to be small, giving the impression that there's a lot more detail in them.

O Scale is usually a standard for public model trains, though, so I'm not surprised by it.

Edited December 3, 2007 by tSlater

[mgreven]

Speaking of retail, or Monroe Center, or Rosa Parks Circle, I see that the RPC Ice Skating Rink opens this coming Friday. Anyone know where they are going to house the skate rentals?

I always thought that the south end of the Art Museum was dedicated to that and Zamboni storage...but I could be wrong.

[Rizzo]

They should market those little models. I saw some Chicago christmas village buildings at a Hallmark a few weeks ago and desperately wanted to buy one. << There was an Empire State Building too, but I didn't like it. It was too small. A practical size. Personally if I have an Empire State Building, it's gotta be huge.

As for scale... at 12-16" I'd guess O Scale. One of the larger scales. A shame, I much prefer HO or N. At O there's typically a lot more room for detail that isn't taken advantage of, and actually looks cheaper than the smaller models where large details are forced to be small, giving the impression that there's a lot more detail in them.

O Scale is usually a standard for public model trains, though, so I'm not surprised by it.

Last I remember it was G. Typically these garden railways are G guage.

Edited December 3, 2007 by Rizzo