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Public Transit in Providence


AriPVD

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I think there isn't a connection from North St to South St for a reason.. I think Boston considers itself the end of the line as far as economic centers on the Atlantic Coast.. I think that great divide keeps that intact..

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"Right now only the red line goes to South Station right?"

And Phase II of the Silver Line.

"I think there isn't a connection from North St to South St for a reason.. I think Boston considers itself the end of the line as far as economic centers on the Atlantic Coast.. I think that great divide keeps that intact.."

Let's free Boston from such thoughts and convince relevant parties that increased connectivity is good for Boston's economy. But where to find $8.7 billion...

My next burning question is whether RI will consider the North-South Rail Link important enough to the region that it will throw some money at it.

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My next burning question is whether RI will consider the North-South Rail Link important enough to the region that it will throw some money at it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure Maine could be convinced. The Downeaster's nice and popular and all, but I'm sure having Regionals running all the way to Portland would be even better.

New Hampshire? Given the big issue earlier this year where they refused to support the Downeaster at all it's unlikely that they'd put one dime towards it.

Rhode Island? Well, they're already paying for MBTA service so they might be asked to cover some of the cost as well. I don't know. At any rate, most of the money would have to come from federal sources because there ain't no way the states can scrape together billions of dollars for something like this.

P.S. I'm curious, where did you get that $8.7b figure?

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I'm sure Maine could be convinced. The Downeaster's nice and popular and all, but I'm sure having Regionals running all the way to Portland would be even better.

New Hampshire? Given the big issue earlier this year where they refused to support the Downeaster at all it's unlikely that they'd put one dime towards it.

Rhode Island? Well, they're already paying for MBTA service so they might be asked to cover some of the cost as well. I don't know. At any rate, most of the money would have to come from federal sources because there ain't no way the states can scrape together billions of dollars for something like this.

P.S. I'm curious, where did you get that $8.7b figure?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.ctps.org/bostonmpo/pmt/pmt.htm

http://www.ctps.org/bostonmpo/pmt/PMT-7.pdf

There may be other huge estimate floating around too. PMT says this is the MBTA's planning department estimate.

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  • 2 weeks later...

New Equipment Coming Soon

RIPTA is expected to take delivery of one brand new bus this month, the first of 36 new 40-foot Stainless Steel Low Floor buses currently on order.

Gillig Corporation of Hayward, CA is building the new buses to custom specifications. The order includes sixteen "Suburban" style buses designed for longer rides and include amenities like luggage racks. All buses included in this order will use Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel.

The order was placed in November of 2004 and the balance will be shipped from September through November 2005.

Funding for this new bus purchase is 80% provided by FTA and 20% by state matching bond funds.

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  • 1 month later...

I'm looking at spending a few days in Boston, next month with my wife. Southwest currently has $49 one way fares from Florida to Hartford, Manchester and Providence's airports. Also AirTran has tickets priced $69 one way.

How easy is it to get to Boston, by commuter rail from these airports? Am I better off paying $69 one way/ticket to fly directly into Boston? Thanks.

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How easy is it to get to Boston, by commuter rail from these airports?  Am I better off paying $69 one way/ticket to fly directly into Boston?  Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Currently, none of those airports is connected to Boston by rail. The rail connection to T.F. Green in Providence is supposed to begin construction soon, but obviously not in time for your trip.

Currently commuter rail service does not run from Providence on weekends (and there is no commuter rail service from Hartford or Manchester). During the week it's a short cab ride from T.F. Green to the train station in Providence.

There is an airport van that will bring you to the train station in Providence, or Kennedy Plaza for bus service (Bonanza {sodEmoji.{sodEmoji.|}} Greyhound) for $9.

Vermont Transit operates bus service from Manchester's airport.

Providence and Manchester are both about the same distance from Boston.

I'm not sure about the transport options from Bradley in Hartford to Boston.

If you can get a ticket straight into Logan for $69 though, that's what I'd go with.

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The cab ride from TF Green to downtown Providence may be short, but it costs nearly $30. Then you're going to pay $6-$13 each person to get from Providence to Boston, depending on what mode of transport you use. Not to mention that you're talking several extra hours, by the time you are done switching from plane to cab to train or bus. I say just pay the extra $20- you'll save time, and probably money.

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The cab ride from TF Green to downtown Providence may be short, but it costs nearly $30.  Then you're going to pay $6-$13 each person to get from Providence to Boston, depending on what mode of transport you use.  Not to mention that you're talking several extra hours, by the time you are done switching from plane to cab to train or bus.  I say just pay the extra $20-  you'll save time, and probably money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is a Bonanza bus directly from TF Green to South Station in Boston. You don't need to get to Kennedy Plaza in Providence. Pretty convenient.

That said, for $20-40, I would definitely just fly to Logan. If it was like $200 bucks, thats another question...

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There is a Bonanza bus directly from TF Green to South Station in Boston. You don't need to get to Kennedy Plaza in Providence. Pretty convenient.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did not know that! Ya learn something new every day. Still, the trouble's not worth saving $20, in my book.

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  • 5 months later...

I'd like to see a Fox Point - Wickenden - Point Street - Westminster Crossing - Broadway - Olneyville route. Another Link Trolley route. North Main-Hope to Wickenden is also much needed.

That's not a problem, Boston, New York, London... all deal with this.

Up until the mid 50's there was a crosstown east side route that served Brown University. It was the Brook street line. It started on Olney and went down Brown Street. You can still see some of the old markings for stops there. It continued to President Ave, hooked a left and then a right down Thayer. It then continued to Brook down to Wickenden Street.

Mark

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  • 1 month later...

Can somebody tell me if the walkway on the Washington Bridge is still open ? If so, where do you enter on the India Point Park side? There's a lot of construction going on..I drove by and got out to look, but couldn't find anything.. I'm working in East Prov. now and interested in joining the daily walkers population to work..Thanks...

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  • 4 weeks later...

"Vision for the Future" of RIPTA. RIPTA wants to expand fixed-route service and add streetcars to Providence, but admits they have no money to do so. [Projo.com]

Expanded service to the god forsaken Centre of New England, Route 2 in Warwick, and other connections like Newport to TF Green, and connections to Fall River and Attleboro (SRTA and GATRA) bus services were also mentioned.

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"Vision for the Future" of RIPTA. RIPTA wants to expand fixed-route service and add streetcars to Providence, but admits they have no money to do so. [Projo.com]

Expanded service to the god forsaken Centre of New England, Route 2 in Warwick, and other connections like Newport to TF Green, and connections to Fall River and Attleboro (SRTA and GATRA) bus services were also mentioned.

At least there's a plan out there. I like some of the ideas. If nothing else, they have something to work towards now.

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I never knew there is an abondoned one mile railroad tunnel in Providence. This seems like an incredibly under-exploited resource. Why isn't everyone calling for something to be done with this? BRT and TOD?

Judging from this...

Therrien said the street cars might run on Valley Street and Allens Avenue in Providence, and could serve expected waterfront development in East Providence.

...RIPTA is considering it. Streetcar connections between Providence and East Providence would almost certainly have to operate via the East Side Tunnel. There are issues with it. At the Providence end, it used to connect to an elevated rail line, so the portal is a level above the street. The tunnel would need to be re-engineered, or somesort of ramp system would need to be created to get trains from the street to the tunnel, not impossible, but expensive. The east end of the tunnel ends at a bridge which would carry trains into East Providence, the bridge needs work, likely it would need to be entirely replaced, more money. And the tunnel itself would surely need work to shore up it's structure.

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Expanded service to the god forsaken Centre of New England

Yes, it's godforsaken, but it will be less so with good transit connections. A real BRT down Route 2 to Garden City and Warwick Mall then on to CoNE, with dense housing built along the line... It would help the state a lot.

Fall River and Attleboro (and Taunton) connections are pretty key too.

It'd be nice if RIPTA had one clue how it would pay for anything.

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Judging from this...

...RIPTA is considering it. Streetcar connections between Providence and East Providence would almost certainly have to operate via the East Side Tunnel. There are issues with it. At the Providence end, it used to connect to an elevated rail line, so the portal is a level above the street. The tunnel would need to be re-engineered, or somesort of ramp system would need to be created to get trains from the street to the tunnel, not impossible, but expensive. The east end of the tunnel ends at a bridge which would carry trains into East Providence, the bridge needs work, likely it would need to be entirely replaced, more money. And the tunnel itself would surely need work to shore up it's structure.

Actually, because the streetcar tracks run on regular roads and can make 90 degree turns, unlike longer trains, I would expect that they would run it up the current bus tunnel, make a zig zag out of the tunnel onto Waterman, continue down and cross the Henderson Bridge, and access the East Providence Waterfront that way. This would allow them to originate at Kennedy Plaza, and have stops at Brown/Thayer, Wayland Sq, Whole Foods/East Side Market, and Richmond Square.

If they were to use the East Side Train Tunnel, they would need to take the parking lot on the South Main end of the tunnel by eminent domain to build a stop there and if they want to have any stops between there and the other end of the tunnel on Gano street, they would need to build underground stations which I dont believe is feasible.

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This would allow them to originate at Kennedy Plaza, and have stops at Brown/Thayer, Wayland Sq, Whole Foods/East Side Market, and Richmond Square.

Streetcars would be a great way to re-connect the West End and Southside with downtown and the East Side. As it is, connections are seriously broken, and it is quite an ordeal to get from one side of the city to another. It's almost like there was an Urban Renewal conspiracy to keep folks from the West End and Southside out of downtown and the East Side (no, could it be?!?)

I love Cotuit's fantasy map posted early in this thread: How about streetcars from Roger Williams Park up Elmwood Ave., crossing the highway at Broad, or starting in Olneyville, heading down Westminster, through Kennedy Plaza to the tunnel? Or starting at Johnson and Wales Harborside Campus, all the way up Allens Ave. past the new developments to Davol Square, over the Point St. bridge and down South Main to the tunnell?

I know thought-out versions of these ideas have been posted here before, but I just think it bears repeating that the streetcar idea should be used to fix the planning mistakes of the past, not reenforce them by neglecting the West End and South Side.

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Streetcars would be a great way to re-connect the West End and Southside with downtown and the East Side. As it is, connections are seriously broken, and it is quite an ordeal to get from one side of the city to another. It's almost like there was an Urban Renewal conspiracy to keep folks from the West End and Southside out of downtown and the East Side (no, could it be?!?)

I love Cotuit's fantasy map posted early in this thread: How about streetcars from Roger Williams Park up Elmwood Ave., crossing the highway at Broad, or starting in Olneyville, heading down Westminster, through Kennedy Plaza to the tunnel? Or starting at Johnson and Wales Harborside Campus, all the way up Allens Ave. past the new developments to Davol Square, over the Point St. bridge and down South Main to the tunnell?

I know thought-out versions of these ideas have been posted here before, but I just think it bears repeating that the streetcar idea should be used to fix the planning mistakes of the past, not reenforce them by neglecting the West End and South Side.

i haev this vision of at least 4 street car lines running in the 4 major directions, north, south, east, west. have one going west from like olneyville sq, through the armory to KP, one down smith st, maybe terminating in north providence (using the center of north providence as a turn around point), one to the east side servicing east providence, one going south, either down elmwood ave or broad towards roger williams park. what would be really nice is if these lines continued straight through (it'd be sort of what SEPTA in philly has with their subways... they have a north/south line and a east/west line crossing under city hall). what would make this even better is if they went underground before reaching downtown... but that won't happen.

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excellent news

perhaps if the streetcars used the east side tunnel they could run elevated over the parking lot just outside the tunnel and perhaps swing over the river to near the train station. I suppose if this was the case the parking lot could stay under the tracks.

Urban Renewal is the way most of the streetcar lines in Portland (and the line in Seattle) are built. Not the old condemnation type of urban renewal though, instead it is through freezing the current assessed value of property within the urban renewal district and using the increased value to pay for local improvements like the streetcar within that district.

So Valley Street streetcar would serve the new Alco development near Eagle Square and Allens Street Streetcar would serve the Providence Waterfront, Former I-195 lands and Fields Point.

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Yes, it's godforsaken, but it will be less so with good transit connections. A real BRT down Route 2 to Garden City and Warwick Mall then on to CoNE, with dense housing built along the line... It would help the state a lot.

Fall River and Attleboro (and Taunton) connections are pretty key too.

It'd be nice if RIPTA had one clue how it would pay for anything.

Haha, dense housing along Route 2! No, seriously though, this would be great, but Warwick will never wake up to the idea of being anything more than an oversized suburb.

GATRA has a Providence to Taunton bus from Kennedy Plaza, but the schedule sucks (4 trips per way per day). I'd take it to work if it didn't follow only an 8-4 work schedule.

RIPTA has said before it legally can't run into Massachusetts. If GATRA can run into Rhode Island, then why can't RIPTA run into Mass.?

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If GATRA can run into Rhode Island, then why can't RIPTA run into Mass.?

Thom Deller said it had something to do with the federal regulations related to the size of the agency. There are federal regulations that keep RIPTA, due to it's size from crossing the state line, but GATRA is small enough that the regulations do not apply to them. I'm not sure how things like PATH running from NJ to NY work, surely PATH is large enough to trigger these regs, maybe they are grandfathered.

I think it does not apply to commuter rail such as MBTA to RI, or MetroNorth CT/NY... Also, I don't know how WMATA is allowed to operate in two states and the District.

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Thom Deller said it had something to do with the federal regulations related to the size of the agency. There are federal regulations that keep RIPTA, due to it's size from crossing the state line, but GATRA is small enough that the regulations do not apply to them. I'm not sure how things like PATH running from NJ to NY work, surely PATH is large enough to trigger these regs, maybe they are grandfathered.

I think it does not apply to commuter rail such as MBTA to RI, or MetroNorth CT/NY... Also, I don't know how WMATA is allowed to operate in two states and the District.

are the PATH trains considered commuter trains according to those regulations? also, NYC has a lot of strange laws and regulations going on that don't exist elsewhere, which could explain this.

maybe RIPTA and GATRA (or RI and MA) need to get together to share funding for the buses that go across the state line and get more lines and/or better schedules.

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