Woodward Avenue Updates

[baldy]

Welcome to the forum jerald!

I always thought that downtown Detroit should move to allow for clubs/bar to be open past the 2am like most other big cities like Chicago & NY. This would be something that would really make downtown a nightlife destination, which could also increase the demand for downtown living. At the very least, they need to do something for dare I say the superbowl....

[jerald]

I agree, the clubs should at least stay open to 3, if not 4, but it is my understanding that the 2AM rule is a state law (could be wrong), so I am not sure how they could get around that.

As far as the 1200 woodward block, the info that I posted is just what I heard, so take it as that. The person I heard that from told me that he owns the block (could he be taking me for a ride?), but he seemed like a respectable guy. Plus lying about owning a city block is kinda hard to hide, its not like cheating on a test or lying about your age. Its kinda a big thing to lie about....lol

Re: the updates.

There has been a dumpster outside the 1403 woodward building over the past day or so. This morning there were a ton of workers going in and out of the front entrance, it was definitely busy this morning. It looks like they have also removed some of the plywood covering the ground floor retail windows along grand river.

Around a week ago I noticed an older couple cleaning out the inside of peppers shoes, next door to 1403. Maybe that is next?

It looks like alot of the framing got done for the walls inside the Avis car rental place in the parking garage on Woodward&Grand river.

Does anyone know what is going to happen to the building next to x/s on the corner of John R and woodward? It looks like the front of the building has been completely removed, and I see workers out there every day.

I am also wondering about the buildings further down woodward, towards where the CVS is going to go. I believe there are two buildings there, just past the other LoMR buildings. Does anyone have any idea what is going on with those buildings? Cleaning those buildings up would do wonders for that block! Especially onces the CVS opens, being that it is so close to CM park.

I have some other info and questions regarding the griswald block, but I am going to start a seperate thread for that, so check back.

J

[Allan]

There was indeed an army of workers at 1403 Woodward this morning. When I walked by I saw that they were constructing what appeared to be a temporary wall inside the front entrance.

Across the street they were working on that three story building that was formerly a coney island. It is going to be a restaurant, but it is unclear what will be going on the upper two floors. I've heard offices, and I've heard lofts....

Down the street towards Compuware I saw a sign advertising the Fowler Building Condos.

Jerald,

The people who own Pepper's Shoes were in from California checking up on the place a couple weeks ago. You should've told them to sell their building to someone who would do something with it. Haha.

[RustTown]

Who's renovating 1225 Woodward? There are so many low-rise buildings I need to add to www.emporis.com that I don't even know where to begin. I added 1403 Woodward, but don't even know what 1225 Woodward is. lol

[Allan]

1225 Woodward is the Fowler Building, an 8 story building on Woodward, three buildings north of State Street. I'll have to see if I can find a photo...although I have so many photos that it would be faster to go downtown to take a photo of it. Haha. I have no idea who is doing the renovation, but they've been doing work on and off for months.

[jerald]

Allan, I probably passed you this morning. I walk by there every morning to get to the parking garage!

I also noticed a new sign on the Lofts @ Woodward center when I got home from work a few minutes ago.

I need to buy a digital camera, all I have is the camera on my cell phone, which does not seem to do anything justice.

[RustTown]

Looking at pictures, the Fowler looks like it is either part, or directly abuts Merchant's Row. I wish I could see a map of lower Woodward or pictures with addresses placed on each building.

[detroitfan]

You're right the Fowler is next door to the southernmost building in Merchants Row. It had until this summer a really ratty looking beauty supply store in it.

It was rumored for awhile that the store closing was part of the plan to renovate the building. It's good finally to see some concrete proof of the project. Hopefully pre-construction sales go quicly so the real renovation can start

That block is part the Campus Martius development. It's not owned by a person it owned by the city or the DEGC. So unless he for the organization that owns it he talking out of his ass

[Allan]

Jerald,

I probably have walked right past you before. It's funny...almost everytime I'm downtown I run into someone I know.

I'll keep my eye out for the new sign on the Loft @ Woodward tomorrow when I do the Preservation Wayne Tour.

LMich,

The Fowler is adjacent to Merchant's Row. I am under the impression that this is a separate development.

[Allan]

I talked to one of the guys at the Fowler Building today, and he said that 12 of the 38 lofts have already been reserved. The grand opening is going to be next Thursday, so they are working to get the two models done by then. The whole project sounds excellent...I really like how they are all custom.

I popped my head into Cliff Bell's up on Park today too...that is coming along, though they've got a few months of work left. It is supposed to be a jazz bar, and it will be open by the Super Bowl.

[tomo]

Baldy, it would be awesome if certain bars could stay open until 3 or 4 in the city, especially in areas where it can be shown that many of the patrons will be able to take a taxi or some way home not requiring themselves to drive... which we don't even want to encourage at 2am.

At a Cool Cities meeting in Ann Arbor, it was one of the things that several people participating in the various groups (some sort of group exercise) brought up as ways of making things cooler. We can't change the weather but we can certainly change some bad laws (zoning, etc), and it doesn't require Cool City grants to do it. Unfortunately, I don't think the idea really went up the chain from that meeting to anyone important, but I do think that a lot of people in the state, especially the target demographic of the Cool Cities campaign would support it. So maybe a Cool Cities grant should be given to a group who will lobby the state government to change the laws?

[baldy]

New spot will brighten Detroit mornings

Breakfast House & Grill will serve upscale version all day, along with other menu items.

Lofts have been a long time coming to the Motor City, but finally, they're here. The 141 lofts at Merchants Row, in the heart of downtown, are already filling up with residents.

And starting Oct. 3, these urban pioneers will be able to order room service from an upscale new restaurant in their building.

Detroit's Breakfast House & Grill is getting the final touches on its colorful 3,850 square-foot space that seats more than 100 for a creative menu that gives breakfast its due.

Some people think it's the best meal of the day. Frank Taylor and his partners, Robert Porcher and Jerry Nottage of the Southern Hospitality Restaurant Group, are among them, and they say they will serve it any time during the hours of operation of their new spot.

Location: Lofts at Merchants Row, 1241 Woodward Ave., Detroit 48226.

Hours: When it opens Oct. 3, 7 a.m.-8 p.m. Mon.-Fri., 8 a.m.-8 p.m. Sat and 8 a.m.-4 p.m. Sun. Hours will expand when the bar is stocked.

Prices: Breakfast entrees $8-$11, omelets and frittatas $8-$12, eggs Benedict $10-$13, salads and sandwiches $8-$12, brunch $25.

Call: (313) 961-1115

Read the rest of the article here

[Zissou]

My guess is that this place will do some good business with all of the lofts on Woodward and will most likely become a destination for workers early in the morning or even at lunch.

What other stores or shops will be part of the Merchants Row development?

[Allan]

Let's see....there's the breakfast place, the Avis car rental place, the furniture store, and the day spa. Then there's that grocery store that is supposed to be opening by the end of the year....

Of course further down Woodward there's the new CVS and that new restaurant in the Compuware Building. Up Woodward a bit they are building Como's, though progress on that seems to be painfully slow. Then there's that restaurant that's going into the former A&M Coney Island.

1403 Woodward is doing facade improvements as a part of the storefront readiness program, with a plan to do lofts above at a future date. The upper floors of the building are in very bad shape because of water damage, so it'll take some serious work, but the first floor will probably lease out quickly.

The Vinton Building will have a men's clothing store when it reopens next year.

The Woodward retail scene isn't thriving, but it's looking better now than it has in almost 20 years. There are still some vacant storefronts, but we're getting there. Just as long as we're able to sustain these new businesses.

[Michi]

Don't forget "Proof" in the Fyfe Building!

[Jin Kim]

Hello All,

I've visited here few times in the past but never thought to participate. I've work in the Parker Webb building for past 6 years and very keen on keeping up with all the development that's been going on in the downtown area. So I guess it's about time I joined in.

Anyhow, there seems to be some conflicting information in regards to the 1403 building. I know that the owner of the building isn't so keen on investing into the building at the moment.

Also, the lady who showed me some units in the LoMR a couple of weeks ago said that the LoMR developers had made an offer to buy the building from the owner so that the LoMR will run continuously across the Grand River Ave. I know that there's been other offers to buy the building as well.

So far it seems the owner's content to just sit and wait. So the 16 condos deal still more of a proposal to the owner rather than a done deal. There's a bit of hope in that the owner seems open to the idea of finding out if there's enough interest to make it worthwhile for her.

Long before I started working in the Parker Webb building - nearly 20 years ago now - I used to come to the downtown to help out with my parent's store in the first floor of the parking garage on Monroe. (Does anyone have information on what's happening with that building? Particularly the theater part?) It's been amazing seeing what's been happening in the downtown past few years!

[Allan]

Welcome to the forum!

The lady that owns 1403 needs to make up her mind. I know that she used to own several buildings on Woodward, but has held onto that one for whatever reason. From what I've been told, she's been through 4 or 5 loft concepts in the past year alone. I don't know why she is so hesitant to do anything with the building. If she's not going to redevelop it, she should sell it to the people who did LoMR.

The theater on Monroe is the National Theater, Albert Kahn's only theater, and the sole remaining theater in Detroit's original theater district. They repaired the roof a few years ago and did some cleanup on the interior. Now they are redoing the exterior. The interior needs a significant amount of repair work, but it is still salvageable. Hopefully we will hear about plans for the interior soon.

I'm not sure what they are doing with that parking garage. Perhaps making that hideous facade not so hideous?

Btw, you are very lucky to work on the Parker-Webb Building...it is one of my favorites downtown.

[Jin Kim]

I don't know what's behind her hesitation, either. From what I know about it, there doesn't seem to be any reason what so ever.

Re: National Theater...

Yes, the fact that it's an Albert Kahn building is one of the reasons why I'm so interested in what happens to that building. The other being that I have had a soft spot for it even before I knew about Albert Kahn from being impressed/saddened by it way back when. It's great to hear that some work's being done to it. I walk by it often during lunch and it doesn't seemed to have changed a bit.

The parking garage is hideous indeed. The condition of the spaces on the ground floor was pretty poor even back when - we actually had a leak in the ceiling (i.e. through the second floor of the parking structure) if you can believe that!

There seems to be some new businesses going in it, though. At least that's something.

Everyone who visits our office are impressed by the building. I just wish the other buildings around it were being improved as well. And no, painting a brick building in silver doesn't count - even for a club! I also think having so much surface parking lots across the street takes away from the urban ambiance. It just feels wrong. Also not having the Stadler towering behind it is going to take some getting used to.

Question for everyone: how many of you live in the downtown or near by (midtown, River Town, etc.)? I've actually been commuting a LONG way. I've just about had it with the time/stress involved. I'm starting to think that it's actually a viable option for me to move into one of the new developments in the downtown. Just curious as to what people's experience has been so far. I've so far visited the Lofts@Woodward, LoMR and the Kales building. So far the Kales building is my favorite as far as the actual units go. But, though only a block or two away, being on Woodward just feels better. I heard that Kales have an underground tunnel to the Grand Circus Park underground parking. Is that true? What's been like dealing with the management companies?

Having just a short 2-3 block walk to work is VERY appealing!

[Allan]

I live in Southfield, although I am looking to move to downtown or midtown in May. I am a poor college student though, so my choices will be limited.

I know people who have units in the Kales and who have units in LoMR. Location-wise you can't beat LoMR. However, it is more expensive than Kales. Kales has some amazing views. If you can't get a south facing apartment, the north facing ones are just as good, IMO. I am a bit disappointed in the quality at the Kales, though. They've marketed them as "luxury lofts," but they're mid-range as far as I am concerned. The Kales does have a tunnel to the GCP garage for parking. I can't really say much about the management company, since I have not had to deal with them.

One building you might want to look into is the Iodent Building. The lofts won't be ready until later this year, though. The lofts will be fairly spacious. One of my friends was trying to convince Sean Harrington (the owner) to make one loft per floor, but I believe he's settled on two units per floor.

The Wright-Kay Building at Woodward & Grand River has lofts in it, although I wouldn't want to live there with that club on the ground floor.

There are a few loft buildings on Broadway between GCP & John R. The Eureka Building has a website, but I don't know about the others. http://www.theeurekalofts.com

There are several other loft buildings downtown. There are a few around the Capitol Park area that are more loft-like. 35 W Grand River, 1215 Griswold, and the Capitol Park Building are good examples of this. One of my friends used to have a loft for $300/mo. on Capitol Park. She had half of a floor (2000+ square feet). The only drawback was that she had to build a kitchen, but for that price what do you expect?

Just outside of downtown is Lafayette Towers. I have 3 friends who live there, and have heard nothing but good things from them. The views are spectacular, especially at night. And they are cheap for what you're getting too. Even the studio apartments are very large.

There is a large selection of places in midtown too. http://detroitmidtown.com/ has a good listing.

[Jin Kim]

I am a bit disappointed in the quality at the Kales, though. They've marketed them as "luxury lofts," but they're mid-range as far as I am concerned.

I really wish developers would stop using the term "luxury lofts." It really doesn't seem to mean much more than "we've put in cheapest stainless door appliances we can find" to me. None of the places I've been to seem any more luxury than a typical place that can be found in other major cities.

Thanks for the pointers to other loft development. I've been watching curiously what's been happening at the Iodent building. I saw Sentaur in it, but I didn't realized there were going to be lofts above it.

[Wordsmith]

I really wish developers would stop using the term "luxury lofts." It really doesn't seem to mean much more than "we've put in cheapest stainless door appliances we can find" to me. None of the places I've been to seem any more luxury than a typical place that can be found in other major cities.

Thanks for the pointers to other loft development. I've been watching curiously what's been happening at the Iodent building. I saw Sentaur in it, but I didn't realized there were going to be lofts above it.

Well compared with the other apartments usually featured in this city they could loosely be considered "luxury." But yes, I personally would love to see some truly luxurious apartments in the perimeter around Cass Park, the kind of upper-thousands, early millions adventures you see in New York or Chicago. (But that could be misconstrued as my wishing I were somewhere else, namely those places... That's not the case.) That whole little area is just begging to be upscale. I went walking again yesterday and went through there on the way downtown and got a little excited wondering how Cass Park might look even within the next five years--provided Michigan doesn't suffer some horrific economic gap as some feel... But with Hendrix in office (hopefully) and the suburban residents more receptive to seeing what the city has to offer I don't think it's a terribly long shot. Besides, the views from midtown/Cass Corridor higher up make me blush. In a good way.

WS

[Jin Kim]

Well compared with the other apartments usually featured in this city they could loosely be considered "luxury." But yes, I personally would love to see some truly luxurious apartments in the perimeter around Cass Park, the kind of upper-thousands, early millions adventures you see in New York or Chicago. (But that could be misconstrued as my wishing I were somewhere else, namely those places... That's not the case.) That whole little area is just begging to be upscale.

I feel the same way. But, actually I was thinking that they should just drop this whole luxury nonsense and reduce the rent by 10-15% to make them more attractive - and not just b/c I'm considering moving into them. Well, alright obviously I'd love it if they were less expensive. But right now, I don't think there isn't enough around much of what's available to make these places desirable aside from the Woodward corridor in downtown. Many would say even the ones in the Woodward corridor aren't yet approachable to the most.

I much prefer urban living to suburban living. But, my considering a move down there is solely based on being completely sick of having to drive 1.5+ hours each way to work.

I think this is a classic dilemma for Detroit. It isn't that there aren't some really great things available, it's that their density is so low that they lose individual desirability. After all, someone who'd want urban living wants certain amount of density. Density in people, opened shops, opened restaurants, safe parks, public transit, etc. And, not just during the business hours during weekdays, either.

Does Cass Park area feels like it can be very up scale? Take that block and plop it down in the middle of Manhattan, then absolutely. Lofts into upper-thousands/early millions? I don't know if I'd be willing to pay that much with burned out buildings just around the corner with no redevelopment in sight, even if I had the money.

However, after a few iterations of lower priced developments to bring up the density... Yes, that area is primed for some high end stuff.

I'd personally would like to see the section of I-75 that divides the downtown from the Cass corridor turned into a tunnel (like the Big Dig in Boston) and a stretch of pedestrian friendly public space on top. I feel like it'd really improve the sense of connection between two of the hottest redevelopment areas in Detroit and make both areas even more desirable for development. Well, once someone convinces the Illitch's to do something more than surface parking lots with all the land/buildings he owns development rights to in between. Have the government take care of public space density and private space density will follow.

[Michi]

Question for everyone: how many of you live in the downtown or near by (midtown, River Town, etc.)? I've actually been commuting a LONG way. I've just about had it with the time/stress involved. I'm starting to think that it's actually a viable option for me to move into one of the new developments in the downtown. Just curious as to what people's experience has been so far. I've so far visited the Lofts@Woodward, LoMR and the Kales building. So far the Kales building is my favorite as far as the actual units go. But, though only a block or two away, being on Woodward just feels better. I heard that Kales have an underground tunnel to the Grand Circus Park underground parking. Is that true? What's been like dealing with the management companies?

Having just a short 2-3 block walk to work is VERY appealing!

I live in Midtown near the university. Cathedral Tower to be exact (Hancock btw Woodward and John R). When I first moved to Detroit last year, I commuted downtown from Westland. NEVER AGAIN!!! As long as I'm in the Detroit Region, the only place for me is the city...unless there's a future change in lifestyle i.e. wife and kids. But even then I would still consider the city.

Anyway, when I first moved here I worked at the Lofts of Merchant's Row while they were still preleasing. I helped with the lease-up and first move-ins. Keeping an open ear, I was under the impression that LMR envisioned the entire west side strip of Woodward as their project, so that would indeed include the old Kresge Building at the corner. One of the appealing features of living in the 1200 block of LMR is the attached parking. Many people liked the floor plans in the 1400 block, but chose against them because of the unattached parking. Perhaps one day you would see a skybridge connecting the 1200 block w/ the garage to the 1400 block if the corner building became part of the contiguous project.

Now that I don't work there anymore I can safely say that I would not park in that garage. It's too expensive and I'd rather just have me parking my own car (not valet). I'd purchase monthly passes from the Premier Underground Garage across the street. It's similar to what I do now by parking behind the DIA instead of at Cathedral Tower. It's $80 vs $50 and only a 3 block walk. Plus I barely ever use my car. When I want to go downtown or to the riverfront I oftentimes ride my bike!

THAT'S WHAT'S SO GREAT ABOUT LIVING IN THE CITY. People need to start realizing the quality of life down here surpasses that of the suburbs in many ways. Sure, there are still a lot of areas that need to be worked on, but the fact that you can call yourself an urban pioneer and work and live with like-minded people is very rewarding and pays for those things that lack. Just a quick example to that point is the trip out to Meijer I'm going on now. SEE YUH!

[Jin Kim]

Anyway, when I first moved here I worked at the Lofts of Merchant's Row while they were still preleasing. I helped with the lease-up and first move-ins. Keeping an open ear, I was under the impression that LMR envisioned the entire west side strip of Woodward as their project, so that would indeed include the old Kresge Building at the corner. One of the appealing features of living in the 1200 block of LMR is the attached parking. Many people liked the floor plans in the 1400 block, but chose against them because of the unattached parking. Perhaps one day you would see a skybridge connecting the 1200 block w/ the garage to the 1400 block if the corner building became part of the contiguous project.

Now that I don't work there anymore I can safely say that I would not park in that garage. It's too expensive and I'd rather just have me parking my own car (not valet). I'd purchase monthly passes from the Premier Underground Garage across the street. It's similar to what I do now by parking behind the DIA instead of at Cathedral Tower. It's $80 vs $50 and only a 3 block walk. Plus I barely ever use my car.

They gave me price of $75/month to park at the attached garage at the LoMR when I took a tour of the units a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if that' just for the residents, but perhaps they realized that they needed to lower the price.

THAT'S WHAT'S SO GREAT ABOUT LIVING IN THE CITY. People need to start realizing the quality of life down here surpasses that of the suburbs in many ways. Sure, there are still a lot of areas that need to be worked on, but the fact that you can call yourself an urban pioneer and work and live with like-minded people is very rewarding and pays for those things that lack. Just a quick example to that point is the trip out to Meijer I'm going on now. SEE YUH!

Meijer? Is there a Meijer in Midtown? My bosses live in Woodbridge and we always talk about how we wish there were good grocery stores near by. Perhaps I need to let them know.

[Wordsmith]

Does Cass Park area feels like it can be very up scale? Take that block and plop it down in the middle of Manhattan, then absolutely. Lofts into upper-thousands/early millions? I don't know if I'd be willing to pay that much with burned out buildings just around the corner with no redevelopment in sight, even if I had the money.

Well I wouldn't say there's no redevelopment in site, but I do believe people are being very cautious if they are considering building up the area even more. The Harborlight and the Eddystone are being redeveloped which to me will serve as a jumping point for more. Those old office buildings and apartment buildings surrounding the Masonic Temple Theatre look wonderful and the opportunity for retail on the ground floor actually looks like a good fit. From what I can tell they wouldn't have to retool too much in order to get something in there. Hopefully shops and an upscale grocery or something. Essentially, whatever they fit into Great Lakes Crossing could turn around and look wonderful in Cass Park. I'm personally loyal to Williams Sonoma, but I also acknowledge that this wouldn't happen for quite a while. But I'm also willing to admit that this will take a while. An entire generation has grown up with a suburban mindset and are more willing to leave the region altogether than devote themselves to rebuilding that option here. It's frustrating, but if they're like me (someone who's grown up post-destination Detroit) and look at it from the standpoint that I do of staying and working towards what is desirable then it won't be that bad.

As I've stated in private conversation elsewhere, I sincerely hope these problems with gasoline and the oil industry turn into Metro Detroit realizing how damaging our development ethic is and reimplimenting some of the things that we've lost both within ourselves and our region.

And there is no Meijer in the city proper, but you might try the one in Southfield.

WS