Berkman Tower and Carolina Theater

[appatone]

I think Camden only deals in apartments though, am I right?

[atlrvr]

This is a different Camden......they have nothing to do with Camden Properties out of Houston (who bought Charlotte based Summit).

I'd love to see a very small floorplate residential tower go here.....plus the old theatre refurbished as an independent film theatre with the red carpet and everything......swank.

[rockhilljames]

Although I'm well aware of their problems, I'd love to see something like Meier's 165 Charles St. at this location. Not a great photo, but here's a shot of it:

(image from wirednewyork.com, photographer unknown..sorry!)

I think something like this, high glass walls, lots of light, would look really good there...

[monsoon]

I think something like this, high glass walls, lots of light, would look really good there...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kinda like the Arlington without the pink glass.

[rockhilljames]

Yeah, but I like the idea of having a whole floor to yourself. At 165 Charles, some folks bought two units and put in staircases to connect them together. A small footprint would make stacking 20-30 units on top of each other pretty easy.

Of course, we could always do a 20 story version of this:

[atlrvr]

After playing around on the internet today, I found something interesting in relation to this project. According to a June 13th city council meeting, Camden has this project named, and a defined scope.

The tower would be called "Berkman Tower at Carolina Theatre", and would be a 26 story tower with 100 units (that's only 4 per floor), and would include ground floor retail.

[A2]

After playing around on the internet today, I found something interesting in relation to this project.

[atlrvr]

I have no clue, and the city hasn't finished hammering a deal out yet, but assuming they get city and county approval (and it seems likely as long as this council is still in control when the vote occurs), then I would believe they might begin pre-selling this next summer......Construction could then begin early '07 (just speculating).

I have a feeling these are going to be rather expensive units, with the Penthouse even surpassing that in The Vue.

[atlrvr]

I have no idea how they will be able to do this tower. The site is only 18,000 sq. ft. including the theatre space (which they plan on restoring)....they want to include structured parking on the site!!!! They will need at least 150 parking spaces and probably 200 if they are large expensive units.

My guess is the parking would be over the theatre all the way to the front of the site, and an ammeities deck ontop of the parking over the theatre portion and the tower right along Tryon.....this would actually mean less than 4 units per floor.

If this is the case, and assuming they could get 85% efficiency out of the building, units would have to average over 1,600 sq. ft. in size.......

[Rickydavisfan21]

I have a more traditional building visioned for this site, because of the historical value of the theatre, what do you think atlrvr. I realize that goes against the current trend, well in charlotte at least, with only the avenue mirroring the style of charlotte. We'll see.

[atlrvr]

There have been no publically released renderings, and I can go either way. If the do something traditional, clad the damn thing in marble or limestone or granite OR SOME SORT OF REAL ROCK!!! No fake stucoo!!!

If its going to be modern, then something glassy of course with either none vertical lines, or intersting setbacks.....I might even take a narrow spire.

[dubone]

with everything they'll have to build on the lower floors, it seems like to get 100units in 26 floors, they will have to do larger floorplates and include the area above the theatre.

i would love an old-skool tall/skinny tower there, as it would be a nice mirror of the dunhill hotel.... but i'm just not so sure it will happen this way.

[atlrvr]

There will be an article detailing this in the CBJ this week. It may shrink in height slightly, but should still be at least 20 stories.

[A2]

There will be an article detailing this in the CBJ this week.  It may shrink in height slightly, but should still be at least 20 stories.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks for the update atlrvr

A2

[Skyybutter]

CBJ article is here

[dubone]

is the whole parking/residential tower going on the small lot next to the montaldo's building?

7 stories of parking with 200 spaces = average of ~30 spaces/floor (which seems to be too many for that little lot.

also 15 stories of residential with 100 units = ~6.7 units/floor at 1k-1.25ksf also seems too many for such a small lot.

It the conversion of the theatre from a 1450seat to 1200 seat theatre a result of a change in the size of the seats, or are they possibly shaving off some of the back of the theatre to make a footpad large enough for the tower?

[eastsider]

In other theatre preservations that I have read about, there is usually a loss of seats to bring the theatre up to ADA standards. Also, more seats could be lost if they decided to extend the stage.

[SmellyCat]

is the whole parking/residential tower going on the small lot next to the montaldo's building? 

7 stories of parking with 200 spaces = average of ~30 spaces/floor (which seems to be too many for that little lot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was thinking the same thing. Just eyeballing the site, I don't know how they can cram that much parking in there.

[dubone]

I was thinking the same thing.  Just eyeballing the site, I don't know how they can cram that much parking in there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

unless they are doing nyc-style hydrolic double-decker parking spots like at the garrison.

the only thing i can figure is that they are removing some of the theatre building to make the footprint larger.

[atlrvr]

I'm somewhat upset about the financing for the project.......They are charging less than $300 psf for a prominant Tryon St. address, yet asking for $4.5 in TIF funds......they could easily raise the units $25k apiece, and raise an additional $2.5M. It seems like the government is essentially giving equity to future purchasers and subsidizing a large reduction in risk for the developer.

[ElricSeven]

I'm somewhat upset about the financing for the project.......They are charging less than $300 psf for a prominant Tryon St. address, yet asking for $4.5 in TIF funds......they could easily raise the units $25k apiece, and raise an additional $2.5M.  It seems like the government is essentially giving equity to future purchasers and subsidizing a large reduction in risk for the developer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like we all better buy one.

[atlrvr]

If you ask me, if the city is kicking in as much as the developer is asking, then the developer should provide some units available to lower-income individuals......the could get away with turning 2-units into 3 in some cases and still get the same return.

The more I think about this, the more I hope the city has the balls to step up on this one and force the developers to hire a market analyst that could provide a market rate for the building, and require the developer to charge that price, or the city should walk from this deal.

[SmellyCat]

If you ask me, if the city is kicking in as much as the developer is asking, then the developer should provide some units available to lower-income individuals......the could get away with turning 2-units into 3 in some cases and still get the same return.

The more I think about this, the more I hope the city has the balls to step up on this one and force the developers to hire a market analyst that could provide a market rate for the building, and require the developer to charge that price, or the city should walk from this deal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

great idea. Enough with the sweetheart deals for developers.

[appatone]

I think the whole 1200 seat thing is to bring the theatre in line with modern fire code. Didn't the article mention retail on the ground level as well? Perhaps the bulk of the parking will be on the floors above the theatre on 2-7. If they build over the theatre then the size of those parking levels will probably more than double. For some reason I see them as building almost a shell around the theatre and having the parking and condos on top of the theatre. The first floor where the current bulldozed lobby space is could provide retail and driving access to those upper parking levels instead of actually having parking directly on the first level.

[rockhilljames]

If you haven't yet, check out the City Council meeting notes when the project was discussed, it can shed some light on the options considered: Council Meeting Notes (pdf). (page 16 to save you some time)

Anyone able to dig up the architectural firm that Camden has working on this? They HAVE to have renderings at this point in the game.