Berkman Tower and Carolina Theater

[graydog]

This project was the topic at the Historic Charlotte meeting last night. Attendance was way beyond their expectations; probably 75 people and standing room only.

Charlie Clayton, president of the Carolina Theatre Preservation Group, presented the theatre history and the restotation/tower plan, and gave us a theatre tour.

According to Charlie, Camden is moving things forward and probably will change the tower to a hotel.

CTPS only needs to raise $2 million to meet their first commitment. Not much really. Seems like this can be accomplished.

[queensguy06]

Will the condo-to-hotel change affect the height and/or design of this building?

[graydog]

Will the condo-to-hotel change affect the height and/or design of this building?

[BUILDIT]

they should just make it office space, it seems like too many hotels are being planned right now and too many condos

[Justadude]

Given how fast Charlotte is growing, more hotels are going to be a necessity. We're attracting more/larger events due to the arena and related goings-on, we have a recently improved convention center that's attracting larger events than in the past, we're looking at placing a baseball stadium near the center of the city, our largest corporations are growing (and therefore attracting more business travelers), and we're adding tourist magnets like the NASCAR HoF and Epicentre.

As long as we have the opportunity, we should want to see as many hotels on or near Tryon as possible. This concentrates the tourist population in one area, which enables the growth of tourist-friendly amenities like retail, street vendors and even performers. We can always build office space elsewhere (pick any gravel lot), but prime spots like the Carolina Theater parcel offer a unique opportunity to put something truly distinguished and elegant along Tryon.

[Nostyle]

Yes, more hotel rooms are needed, but IMO office space is needed even more. I can't believe that nobody has come along and built a spec tower yet. If this were Denver, Dallas, or Atlanta circa 1985 we'd see 3-4 500+ foot spec office towers under construction right now based on the low vacancy rate alone.

[Justadude]

^ True, but that can happen anywhere with roughly equal results. There's no need to use a Tryon St. parcel for (yet more) office buildings when there are dozens of empty lots waiting to be developed only a couple of blocks away.

[uptownliving]

Little update on this project:

The developer, Camden Properties, is requesting a 3 month extention on the sales contract. They will have to pay the city $25K for this extention and will be required to close on the property by October 18, 2007 at which time they will have to shell out $1M. They need the extra time to do more engineering studies to figure out the parking on this tight site ( sound familiar? Concourse ). There have also been changes to the condo tower due to new equity partners.

[UrbanCharlotte]

This project has been incredibly silent. I hope it succeeds as the empty lot with a fence around it is not appealing. Having something there would liven tryon up even more.

[uptownliving]

A little more information on this project. The group behind The Trust condos downtown is the one that has now joined Camden Partners in coming up with a new plan for this site. Due to engineering issues with the proposed cantelevered parking structure over the Carolina Theatre the 25 story condo tower has been scrapped. Instead will be something shorter with a higher price point. Also there will be Car elevators instead of the cantelevered parking structure. At this point it is still highly conceptual, but expect to see some renderings released by the end of the year.

[jednc]

A little more information on this project. The group behind The Trust condos downtown is the one that has now joined Camden Partners in coming up with a new plan for this site. Due to engineering issues with the proposed cantelevered parking structure over the Carolina Theatre the 25 story condo tower has been scrapped. Instead will be something shorter with a higher price point. Also there will be Car elevators instead of the cantelevered parking structure. At this point it is still highly conceptual, but expect to see some renderings released by the end of the year.

[rockhilljames]

I just want the theatre restored. Having a live music venue in a historic theatre downtown would add a lot to the city.

[swampfox43]

I just want the theatre restored. Having a live music venue in a historic theatre downtown would add a lot to the city.

[orulz]

Also there will be Car elevators instead of the cantelevered parking structure. At this point it is still highly conceptual, but expect to see some renderings released by the end of the year.

[dubone]

I like the solution of the car elevators, and it certainly meets the concerns of some of the theatre enthusiasts who worried that the lifespan of a hypothetical parking deck could cause the theatre to be demolished 25 years from now.

I do have to wonder, though, if they are in the higher price point, why not have 24 hour long valet!? It has to be cheaper to lease a certain amount of space in nearby decks. They can manage the amount of space they need, and when they under-estimate, simply have the valets run a little farther to a cheaper deck. That way, they can take advantage of the vast surplus of evening parking spaces, keep a much reduced inventory of monthly spaces in the Hearst Deck or the IJL Deck.

I think the cost of a certain number of daytime spaces, rights to park in the Hearst Tower deck overnight for the much smaller number of condos they are talking about now, plus the valet employment and insurance would be MUCH less than using all that tight space on parking spots and expensive car elevators!

Not only could they fit more residences in the same amount of structure, but they could use some of the tens of thousands of uptown deck spaces that sit empty overnight. When you consider the societal benefit of saving the theater and redeveloping that corner, I would almost think BofA would/should grant those overnight spaces for free. Seriously, it is in the same block, and it is completely empty overnight. Even without valet, maybe they could even just buy some permanent spaces in that deck from BofA, and then have a walkway across the roof of the theater to those spaces in the Hearst deck.

I just hate to see them agonizing over the parking with so many decked spaces nearby.

[jednc]

I like the solution of the car elevators, and it certainly meets the concerns of some of the theatre enthusiasts who worried that the lifespan of a hypothetical parking deck could cause the theatre to be demolished 25 years from now.

I do have to wonder, though, if they are in the higher price point, why not have 24 hour long valet!? It has to be cheaper to lease a certain amount of space in nearby decks. They can manage the amount of space they need, and when they under-estimate, simply have the valets run a little farther to a cheaper deck. That way, they can take advantage of the vast surplus of evening parking spaces, keep a much reduced inventory of monthly spaces in the Hearst Deck or the IJL Deck.

I think the cost of a certain number of daytime spaces, rights to park in the Hearst Tower deck overnight for the much smaller number of condos they are talking about now, plus the valet employment and insurance would be MUCH less than using all that tight space on parking spots and expensive car elevators!

Not only could they fit more residences in the same amount of structure, but they could use some of the tens of thousands of uptown deck spaces that sit empty overnight. When you consider the societal benefit of saving the theater and redeveloping that corner, I would almost think BofA would/should grant those overnight spaces for free. Seriously, it is in the same block, and it is completely empty overnight. Even without valet, maybe they could even just buy some permanent spaces in that deck from BofA, and then have a walkway across the roof of the theater to those spaces in the Hearst deck.

I just hate to see them agonizing over the parking with so many decked spaces nearby.

[dubone]

Let's pretend 40 units with 60 spaces (half of the units with 2 cars, the other half with one). Overnight, they have the rights to park in the Hearst deck by agreement from BofA, given it is virtually empty overnight. Let's say they need to keep at least one space per unit for any time of day, they will need to keep 40 spaces on hand. The monthly rate is $110/mo at the Hearst deck. Let's say they can negotiate for bulk and neighborliness down to $100/mo. First of all, people would hardly bat an eye these days to have $100 included outright into their monthly dues. But still, I wonder how that ~$48k/year would compare with the building costs for a car elevator and the extra floors for the parking spaces.

Hearst deck has 1544 spaces. Tell me why BofA couldn't even just grant them the f'n 40 spaces just to help Carolina Theater get renovated! With a deck that large next door, again EMPTY AT NIGHT, it would be pure wrong to have the project die from cost of parking structure.

[bankoncharlotte]

In the current environment, with the construction cost and financing situation, it is prudent to reduce the number of units and charge more per square ft. Charlotte, along with 80% of urban markets in the country, has too much inventory in the 350-700k price point. Financing costs for borrowers is particularly problematic in this range as well. Affluent prospects have more liquid assets, making it easier to increase a downpayment or pay cash for a property - in turn, reducing the burden of more expensive financing. I like two price points in the uptown market - below $300k and above $1MM.

As for the car elevator concept, I think it would be a really innovative solution to the parking issue that caused the property to be vacant for many years. If the developer is focused on the higher price point, buyers will demand convenient parking, so the elevator should differentiate this concept from others that are in the works.

[atlrvr]

I agree that the two price-points mentioned are where there is most activity in the market, though I do think that the $1M+ is pretty limited, and a property has to be fairly distinctive to justify that price point. I think Novare could sell their 1Br units all day forever in the $200k-$250k range.

I will say, that once Wachovia brings its large number of Investment Banking jobs to Charlotte, and if another company that shall remain unnamed comes as well, that will provide a boost to the $300k-$1M range market.

I agree that Berkman could work in a limited-supply project, though I'm not sure about the car elevator....perhaps if it's valet.

[dubone]

As rumored here, Jim Donnelly's project that replaces Berkman is Encore. That project will be discussed here:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/Encore-L...s-C-t41768.html