downtown USA - the 10 best

[Hisma]

the days of mom and pop bodegas and corner stores are gone. Modern american cities are going to consist mainly of chain stores. Older, established cities are the only exception to this rule (NYC being the main example).

American economics is ruled by oligopolies. It's too expensive to compete in lucrative vibrant downtowns. I agree with Topher that we should accept that at least downtown stores are usually "flagship", and generally stray away from the traditional cookie-cutter mall layout. Most of the stores in Chicago's Michigan Ave are stores you can find in most suburban malls, but it's the environment and layout that make it special.

Face it, while we all want our downtowns to be ruled by unique, local-owned specialty shops, it's hardly possible the way our downtowns are evolving. As much as we would like our growing downtowns to be like NYC or Boston, it's just not going to happen

my $.02

[fritz]

Considering how difficult it is for this group to come up with 10 nice big American downtown areas - it is surprising that chain stores are a concern. How many cities would love to have a Gap or big department store! Many cities do not even have a department store left in the whole of downtown. I like downtown Seattle and think it is great that the retail has improved, but in my many experiences there, those photos do not represent a typical crowd. I think most college and many medium sized cities have nice downtowns, but let's focus on big cities.

[pdxstreetcar]

I think most of the cities that kept appearing in people's lists have grand downtown department stores (not in downtown malls but actual stand-alone stores). Maybe still having a grand downtown department store(s) is a sign of a successful big city downtown?

[Hisma]

I like downtown Seattle and think it is great that the retail has improved, but in my many experiences there, those photos do not represent a typical crowd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lol tru

even tho I've never been to seattle those photos make it look like tokyo on street level.

[tsoutside]

New York City

San Francisco

Chicago

Seattle

New Orleans

I think when New Orleanians say downtown they're usually referring to the entire part of the city downriver of Canal Street (which would include the Quarter)? What other cities call Downtown they would call the CBD (upriver of and including Canal St). Anyway, I think NOLA has the largest--and most interesting--traditional Downtown in the South.

[pwright1]

Considering how difficult it is for this group to come up with 10 nice big American downtown areas - it is surprising that chain stores are a concern.  How many cities would love to have a Gap or big department store!  Many cities do not even have a department store left in the whole of downtown.  I like downtown Seattle and think it is great that the retail has improved, but in my many experiences there, those photos do not represent a typical crowd.  I think most college and many medium sized cities have nice downtowns, but let's focus on big cities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What the heck are you talking about. I live here in Seattle, close to dt in fact. Those are typical crowds in our retail core. Do you think its a parade or a protest?

The photos I showed earlier were from last week, last month, Jan. 2005 and throughout 2004. Even in the rain the crowds still come.

Last Saturday

Random

[monsoon]

That was a good point about the chain stores coming when enough people live in the downtown of a city to support them. Does this mean we have come full circle? i.e. We have moved the Mall, which killed off many cities in the first place, to the downtowns? When the only place you can get a cup of coffee is Starbucks, what is the point of a downtown anymore?

BTW, American chain stores are really nothing but distributers of Chinese made goods now. I never shop in them as it is simply easier to get the same stuff off the internet.

[Miesian Corners]

That was a good point about the chain stores coming when enough people live in the downtown of a city to support them.  Does this mean we have come full circle?  i.e. We have moved the Mall, which killed off many cities in the first place, to the downtowns?  When the only place you can get a cup of coffee is Starbucks, what is the point of a downtown anymore?   

BTW, American chain stores are really nothing but distributers of Chinese made goods now.  I never shop in them as it is simply easier to get the same stuff off the internet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

monsoon, my point exactly. Again, the intention of my post was not to put the beautiful city of Seattle in a bad light. There are plenty of places in SEA that still retain their character, Pike Place Market, Broadway, Bell Town, etc. Fun areas where you can buy something you can't find anywhere else.

Charleston, SC is another prime example of chain retail ruining the character of a downtown. Granted it's on a much smaller scale than Seattle or San Francisco, but King Street is now a conglomeration of Laura Ashley, Bannana Repulic, Gucci, Saks, Sunglass Hut, Pottery Barn and Williams Sonoma. The only thing that tells you are in a Southern coastal city is the fact that the street is lined with palmetto trees.

[Garris]

The chain stores in the major downtowns are on a different level as far as quality and size than their mall counterparts.

[Loughlin]

1.Boston

2.San Francisco

3.San diego

4.Chicago

5.New York

In Order...

[ratbear]

What the heck are you talking about. I live here in Seattle, close to dt in fact. Those are typical crowds in our retail core. Do you think its a parade or a protest?

The photos I showed earlier were from last week, last month, Jan. 2005 and throughout 2004. Even in the rain the crowds still come.

I actually live near downtown seattle, and can concurr that those crowds are typical in the 6 or so square block vicinity of Westlake. Outside of Westlake it can get a little anemic, and at night it is not nearly as active. The new Central Library is drawing a lot more traffic out of westlake however . Our mayor is trying to scale back building codes so that they can build up the residential density in the downtown core, that should make it a little busier at night. I am sick of all the shops downtown closing at 7 and 8.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Right now I would put the list at

1. Boston

2. SF

3. NY

4. DC

5. Chicago

6. Seattle

Someday though I do believe Charlotte will make an inroads and become a top destination, they are building for it as we speak.

[cmj2k5]

There hasn't been much said about Minneapolis, it is a very lively downtown.

Around the metrodome before twins/vikings/gopher games there is a lot to do.

There is plenty of theatres to try out, lots of shopping, a beautiful skyline(never gets any props!) and it is easy to get around on foot.

That's just a little bit, someone that lives around there could probably get a little more in depth, I just visit a few times a year.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

yeah, minneapolis has a great downtown, I cannot believe I forgot about it.

[stinkweed]

Right now I would put the list at

1. Boston

2. SF

3. NY

4. DC

5. Chicago

6. Seattle

Someday though I do believe Charlotte will make an inroads and become a top destination, they are building for it as we speak.

Philly has a tiny little downtown area, too. You should check it out someday.

1.Boston

2.San Francisco

3.San diego

4.Chicago

5.New York

In Order...

So, San Diego has a better downtown than Chicago and New York. Ok, everyone has an opinion.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

I have never been to Philly (and I probably wont) so I can't put a ranking on it but Im sure its great.

[AvianKeahi]

There hasn't been much said about Minneapolis, it is a very lively downtown.

Around the metrodome before twins/vikings/gopher games there is a lot to do.

There is plenty of theatres to try out, lots of shopping, a beautiful skyline(never gets any props!) and it is easy to get around on foot.

That's just a little bit, someone that lives around there could probably get a little more in depth, I just visit a few times a year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And it's all under glass with it's 5 mile+ Skyway Network. (A high-resolution map here: Downtown Minneapolis Map) They can be a good thing or bad thing depending on your ideas about urban planning. But at least you don't really need a coat in the winter if you have an attached garage and park in one of the downtown heated ramps.

I think Chicago and New York are two that could top anyone's list. So apart from those, I've found Seattle, Minneapolis, Portland, San Francisco and Boston to be great urban centers among the large cities I've visited. But I'll add Madison, Des Moines and, surprisingly, Duluth MN to give smaller cities a nod.

[jfallin]

Hey, what about Atlanta? There are cool places to walk around in downtown and it's my favorite city, so here the list....

1. Atlanta

2. Orlando

3. Miami

4. Jacksonville, FL

5. Dallas

6. L.A.

7. Chicago

8. Nashville

9. Las Vegas

10. St. Louis

[Garris]

And it's all under glass with it's 5 mile+ Skyway Network.  (A high-resolution map here: Downtown Minneapolis Map) They can be a good thing or bad thing depending on your ideas about urban planning.  But at least you don't really need a coat in the winter if you have an attached garage and park in one of the downtown heated ramps.

I think Chicago and New York are two that could top anyone's list.  So apart from those, I've found Seattle, Minneapolis, Portland, San Francisco and Boston to be great urban centers among the large cities I've visited.  But I'll add Madison, Des Moines and, surprisingly, Duluth MN to give smaller cities a nod.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great post. I agree with much of your last paragraph (especially Madison and Duluth MN, who woulda' thunk it, 'ya know ), but I will take issue with a bit of the first. The skyway is a necessary evil needed to land Minneapolis all those conventions they get. And it is nice during the winter .

Pedestrian Minneapolis is mostly limited to the Nicolette Mall and the Warehouse district right now and some connecting areas that link them. But check back in about 5-10 years. With all the growth that city is getting, it could be a completely different picture by then!

- Garris

Providence, RI

[danwxman]

How can Philadelphia not be in some people's Top 5...and even Top 10!!

It has the third highest downtown population in the country!

[AvianKeahi]

Great post.  I agree with much of your last paragraph (especially Madison and Duluth MN, who woulda' thunk it, 'ya know ), but I will take issue with a bit of the first.  The skyway is a necessary evil needed to land Minneapolis all those conventions they get.  And it is nice during the winter .

Pedestrian Minneapolis is mostly limited to the Nicolette Mall and the Warehouse district right now and some connecting areas that link them.  But check back in about 5-10 years.  With all the growth that city is getting, it could be a completely different picture by then!

- Garris

Providence, RI

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Garris. I actually do like the skyways too. It's the world's largest network of privately-owned skyways. They have given the city (and its twin St. Paul which has the world's largest publicly-owned skyway system) a fascinating indoor life. They are filled with locally-owned businesses and restaurants, some that are so tiny they would have a tough time surviving on the street. At lunch time parts of it remind me of the crowded Tokyo indoor mini-malls. However I also have to give some credit to the critics who have noted that it sometimes comes at a price to the streetlife. But separating car traffic and pedestrians onto two different levels has its advantages, and a new kind of "streetlife" now exists one floor up.

And you're right, those arctic Alberta Clippers in January justify their existence! I was in downtown Minneapolis during the huge Halloween blizzard some years back and it seemed the people living and working downtown went through their day with hardly a thought of the conditions outside.

I'd also add to your list Hennepin Avenue and Uptown as pedestrian strongholds. And of course the city lakes and parks.

[Garris]

How can Philadelphia not be in some people's Top 5...and even Top 10!!

It has the third highest downtown population in the country!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd certainly put it in mine...

NYC

Chicago

San Francisco

Boston

Phily

Rittenhouse Square is, along with Gramercy Park in NYC, amongst the nation's most pretty urban neighborhoods. I love Phily. It's probably my favorite overall American city (the urban feel and sophistication of NYC with a more manageable size, good cost of living, and fantastic nearby attractions and suburbs).

That said, I think it's a little problematic in spots. While it has some fantastic streets and neighborhoods, the whole thing feels less than the sum of its parts (very much like Boston, in my opinion). The entire downtown also feels like it could benefit from a improvement district type of group. Phily always feels a little grimy, a little dirty, and a little under-upkept even in its best areas. Phily also has some deeply entrenched poverty and inner-city issues in some enormous neighborhoods. The "scary" areas of Phily alone are probably much bigger than my entire city of Providence, RI!

I think the first three cities in my list (plus Vancouver and Toronto in Canada) are different classes all by themselves. The fact that there are so few healthy, world class American downtowns for us to think of is somewhat problematic. Save for the first three on my list, can anyone think of a U.S. downtown that isn't really in need of some type of "renewal"?

- Garris

[murderingmouth]

I think US  central cities pale in comparison to European and even Canadian cities, but which are the 10 best?  I think of these as the most desirable to live in - having all of the important shopping/dining/entertainment etc.  This applies only to the downtown core!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It also does not constrain "affordability" which is often a vital factor in livability.

If I pretend money is not a factor:

1. New York

2. Boston

3. Seattle

4. San Francisco

5. San Diego

6. Portland

7. Austin

8. Arlington

9. Portland

10. Charlotte

If I want to be able to afford a livable home:

1. Portland

2. Pittsburgh

3. Raleigh

4. Charlotte

5. Atlanta

6. Richmond

7. Baltimore

8. Denver

9. Albany

10. Austin

MM

[Skyline920]

My Top Ten best downtowns are:

1. Chicago

2. Los Angeles

3. Minneapolis/Saint Paul

4. Houston

5. Dallas

6. New York City

7. Atlanta

8. Seattle

9. San Francisco

10. Boston

[*Sweetkisses*]

Well Garris, I dont know what Philadelphia youre talking about but downtown Philly is nowhere near dirty. There is some MAJOR renovation and construction going on, not just one building here one building there, everywhere you turn there is something being done. Its vibrant, many companies are moving back into the city... so if the last time you visited philly was like in the year 2000... well lets just say its improved.