Plaza-Midwood Projects (Central, Commonwealth, The Plaza)

[archiham04]

I haven't heard anything about the Little Italy site recently but was surprised to see it come up on the land development site recently.  Most recent City Engineering review was May 2014!....

[Niner National]

Can't we the citizens who live here do something about it. Seriously, I'm ready to get creative. This cannot keep happening unchallenged.

 

Can't we the citizens who live here do something about it? Seriously, I'm ready to get creative. This cannot keep happening unchallenged.

Developers aren't charities. If the demand isn't there for retail, they're not going to build it. There are retail / commercial properties on all sides of this development, some of which sits empty (and would cost less per square foot than any new retail space in this building). I think retail in this space would just go unused for years.

 

It is on the fringes of P-M in an area that has pretty low population density compared to the core of P-M. Retail would be a losing venture.

 

We don't have foot traffic from tourists and we're not building 20 floor apartment towers that can add 500+ each people per block. The numbers simply don't work out for retail in every low to mid-rise apartment building in the city.

[nonillogical]

Developers aren't charities. If the demand isn't there for retail, they're not going to build it. There are retail / commercial properties on all sides of this development, some of which sits empty (and would cost less per square foot than any new retail space in this building). I think retail in this space would just go unused for years.

 

It is on the fringes of P-M in an area that has pretty low population density compared to the core of P-M. Retail would be a losing venture.

 

We don't have foot traffic from tourists and we're not building 20 floor apartment towers that can add 500+ each people per block. The numbers simply don't work out for retail in every low to mid-rise apartment building in the city.

Developers aren't charities but some are evidently more charitable (or just ballsy) than others. I was just in Atlanta this week for work and was blown away by the amount of retail included in every new low and midrise building, even in what seemed like pretty fringe, almost desolate areas. There just seemed to be a concerted effort in those areas to make it work, and a confidence that if not immediately, those areas will be retail-supportive before long.

 

I feel like in the case of this area of PM, there are vacant spaces in adjacent buildings because there isn't a critical mass yet, and they aren't linked up with other blocks of retail. If we keep getting giant full-block single-use buildings, I'm not sure where we're going to put retail once the demand is undeniable, which I think it will in this area in a matter of years. 

[atlrvr]

Developers aren't charities but some are evidently more charitable (or just ballsy) than others. I was just in Atlanta this week for work and was blown away by the amount of retail included in every new low and midrise building, even in what seemed like pretty fringe, almost desolate areas. There just seemed to be a concerted effort in those areas to make it work, and a confidence that if not immediately, those areas will be retail-supportive before long.

 

I feel like in the case of this area of PM, there are vacant spaces in adjacent buildings because there isn't a critical mass yet, and they aren't linked up with other blocks of retail. If we keep getting giant full-block single-use buildings, I'm not sure where we're going to put retail once the demand is undeniable, which I think it will in this area in a matter of years. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/real_estate/2014/07/apartment-industry-charlotte-officials-discuss.html?page=all

 

Planning department and some developers have taken notice. 

[Niner National]

P-M is surrounded by single family homes on almost every side. Most of these neighborhoods are weawlthy historic districts, so we aren't going to see properties bulldozed on the side streets for projects.. I think P-M's ability to densify is really going to be limited by this. Obviously plenty of room for growth, but nothing like the empty land that was available along S. Blvd or on North Davidson.

 

P-M's biggest opportunities for growth are farther to the east (down around Morningside). To the west and to the south you have 74 and/or CPCC (not to mention the huge expanse of land that Piedmont Middle occupies) limiting growth opportunity around where this project will be built. Those things are permanent; they're not going anywhere. I just don't see the western edge of P-M ever being an area with the ability to reach critical mass for much retail beyond what already exists.

 

If the city decides to sell off all the land they own over behind Intermezzo where they store all their trucks and equipment, then maybe, but I can't imagine they will. 

[nonillogical]

I just don't see the western edge of P-M ever being an area with the ability to reach critical mass for much retail beyond what already exists.

I guess I disagree on this point, it seems like it has so much potential as a node, and the businesses that have gone in there have been surprisingly stable even without much surrounding density. I didn't have much confidence that Central Coffee would last but it has, and there are little-known but seemingly successful businesses in many of the buildings farther down towards 7th. The street car starter line will terminate only a few blocks from here, and a renewal in Belmont might be a ways off but is basically inevitable. This is a prime area where I think the gamble on retail must be taken even if the demand isn't yet obvious. 

[saveface]

I thought there were zoning requirements for retail along Central Avenue?  Are those not in place at that point on Central?

There are - I contacted the development company (CampusWorks) and found out they have applied for a rezoning permit. For property to get rezoned, a public hearing has to be held, and the public hearing for this property is on September 15. I plan on being there and would appreciate like-minded company. 

 

http://www.charmeck.org/city/charlotte/planning/Rezoning/RezoningPetitions/2014Petitions/Pages/2014-080.aspx

[saveface]

Developers aren't charities but some are evidently more charitable (or just ballsy) than others. I was just in Atlanta this week for work and was blown away by the amount of retail included in every new low and midrise building, even in what seemed like pretty fringe, almost desolate areas. There just seemed to be a concerted effort in those areas to make it work, and a confidence that if not immediately, those areas will be retail-supportive before long.

 

I feel like in the case of this area of PM, there are vacant spaces in adjacent buildings because there isn't a critical mass yet, and they aren't linked up with other blocks of retail. If we keep getting giant full-block single-use buildings, I'm not sure where we're going to put retail once the demand is undeniable, which I think it will in this area in a matter of years. 

I'm equally concerned about the fact that these huge block apartment buildings are creating a blank face where a little character used to be. It can't all be about what is good for developers - it has to be a compromise between what is profitable and what is good for the people who already live here. 

[archiham04]

The rezoning application is not asking to change any of the requirements of the current B-2 (PED) zoning or a conditional zoning.  The rezoning application simply requests to change the parcels currently zoned I-2 to B-2 (PED).  Once it is rezoned it will fall under the use by right, minimum requirements of B2 (PED) - which if correctly cited above, will require retail.

 

There is however, an opportunity for stakeholders to express any reservations with the change from I-2 to B2 and encourage mitigating improvements to address those concerns (like for instance requiring more retail, buffering, screening etc.... than b2ped currently requires) but since this is essentially downzoning the arguments for mitigation may be diluted.

[southslider]

Pint Central didn't open until after dense rooftops were built behind it.

[atlrvr]

as i understand it, active uses for the sole benefits of the residents still fulfill the retail ordinace in (PED).  so leasing office, demostration kitchen, gym, coffee room, etc as long as they are on the ground floor and have exterior window count as retail.....would love to be wrong on this, so please correct me anyone if i am missing something

[hokiehigh]

I haven't heard anything about the Little Italy site recently but was surprised to see it come up on the land development site recently.  Most recent City Engineering review was May 2014!....

 

That is interesting.  I've noticed a few people looking at it when I drive by.  I would think that would be a pretty good spot for some sort of development.

[saveface]

On the charmeck.org website I think you can what the city plans to do with the Eastland Mall/Central area but it seems a while off.

This is the adopted plan for the area just south of Central (includes the eastern half of Commonwealth Ave): http://charmeck.org/CITY/CHARLOTTE/PLANNING/AREAPLANNING/PLANS/INDEPENDENCEBLVDAREAPLAN/Pages/home.aspx

 

Plans include a Lynx Silver Line (2030 Transit Plan).

 

I think it's inevitable that growth will happen east of Briar Creek, based on its proximity to P-M, NoDa, Center City, and Elizabeth. No telling how long it will take though. 

[plaza-midwooder]

I was over at the new space for Catch On Seafood (in the old Volume Lounge space) last night and was speaking with the owners. During our conversation they mentioned that there are plans to re-open Volume Lounge as a new bar with pool tables and foosball tables along with plans to build a 5000 sq ft deck on top of the former Volume Lounge with a raw bar.

[Niner National]

I was over at the new space for Catch On Seafood (in the old Volume Lounge space) last night and was speaking with the owners. During our conversation they mentioned that there are plans to re-open Volume Lounge as a new bar with pool tables and foosball tables along with plans to build a 5000 sq ft deck on top of the former Volume Lounge with a raw bar.

This sounds great. I never really thought the lounge theme fit P-M anyway.

 

The deck on top of Volume sounds great too.

[CLTProductions]

This sounds great. I never really thought the lounge theme fit P-M anyway.

 

The deck on top of Volume sounds great too.

Yeah that lounge was NEVER going to work in plaza. Plaza thrives best with patios/rooftops as well as specialty "boutique" type places. The lounges/clubs should be left to south end and uptown

[plaza-midwooder]

Additionally, I was talking with someone at Yama Izakaya, the new Japanese place going up next to Bistro Labon, and evidently there are talking about taking out the row of parking spaces in front of Bistro, Yama, and Healthy Home Market to make a patio with outdoor seating for those businesses. Nothing final, but would definitely be cool.

[CLTProductions]

Additionally, I was talking with someone at Yama Izakaya, the new Japanese place going up next to Bistro Labon, and evidently there are talking about taking out the row of parking spaces in front of Bistro, Yama, and Healthy Home Market to make a patio with outdoor seating for those businesses. Nothing final, but would definitely be cool.

Oh that would be perfect! Definitely hope that moves forward.

[km1789]

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/morning-edition/2014/08/lights-out-doors-locked-at-the-penguin-drive-in.html

its been said before, but karma is a b****
 

 

 

[CLTProductions]

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/morning-edition/2014/08/lights-out-doors-locked-at-the-penguin-drive-in.html

its been said before, but karma is a b****

 

 

 

this has been posted already, in this thread 

 

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php/topic/50977-another-barrestaurant-bites-the-dust/page-12#entry1316869

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jayvee

[Miesian Corners]

Hmmmmm.  Duke Power has turned off the electricity at the Penguin.  I'll betcha all that hamburger meat is gonna start smelling pretty rank very soon. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/08/06/5089694/penguin-drive-in-facing-eviction.html#.U-P2dfldV8E

[Prodev]

Additionally, I was talking with someone at Yama Izakaya, the new Japanese place going up next to Bistro Labon, and evidently there are talking about taking out the row of parking spaces in front of Bistro, Yama, and Healthy Home Market to make a patio with outdoor seating for those businesses. Nothing final, but would definitely be cool.

A planning meeting for this was just scheduled, so it looks like it's going to happen. 

[southslider]

So will Hatcher finally upgrade his huge parking lot as well?

[Niner National]

So will Hatcher finally upgrade his huge parking lot as well?

How do you upgrade a parking lot? Put planter areas in to break up the expansive black top, or did you have something else in mind?

[Miesian Corners]

How do you upgrade a parking lot? Put planter areas in to break up the expansive black top, or did you have something else in mind?

I'm thinking maybe filling in all the potholes would be a good start.  Let's be honest with ourselves, that parking lot isn't going away any time soon.