Plaza-Midwood Projects (Central, Commonwealth, The Plaza)

[atlrvr]

Speaking of landmarks......this was filed for the address of the Van Landingham Estate.

Quote

Installation of equipment necessary to manufacture and store craft alcoholic beverages

 

[GeauxCLT]

Sushi Guru site appears it is becoming a parking lot? Anyone know what is going on?

 

In other PM news, pretty cool event this weekend with tour of some historic homes and a community festival: http://plazamidwood.org/2017-plaza-midwood-home-garden-tour/

[Midwoodian]

I've noticed what you are talking about regarding sushi guru. I think that is just the concrete curb for the parking on the site. Drive by today and there is now a huge hole in the corner of the property closest to the fire station, and dirt piled high on the site. I wonder if there will be a basement or underground parking for the building?


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[archiham04]

subterranean parking would not surprise me.  They were looking at car lifts originally.

[hokiehigh]

It looks like the VLE deal fell through.   The article does mention the craft distillery but then states it probably won't be permitted.   I hope they can find a buyer who will keep the house and gardens!  

VLE article

[SgtCampsalot]

So it dawns on me, the Central/Hawthorne apartments: are they going to create on-street parking on Central?

[archiham04]

^ It's possible, but I don't think so.  With two curbcuts, proximity to Hawthorne, and the Beaver breaking up the block, they would only have a limited number to put there.  The setback you see is likely necessitated by the dedicated future right of way that CATS has for Central.

It is a neighborhood goal to limit "dedicated" onstreet parking.  We are advocating to the city to limit the number of Harris Teeter style "stroad" parking spaces and to to allow off peak onstreet parking in the outermost lanes of Central from Louise to Brier Creek.  The goal being to essentially limit the road to a 2 lane road on off peak hours.

Edited May 9, 2017 by archiham04

[UrbanGossip]

No on-street parking is provided either on Central or on Hawthorne that I can see on the approved site plans.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, UrbanGossip said:

No on-street parking is provided either on Central or on Hawthorne that I can see on the approved site plans.

Thats correct. FYI here is the latest rendering.

[UrbanGossip]

I think it's pretty interesting formally.  But man I wish they would add some color.  Make the doo-doo brown a red or something.

[tozmervo]

There's one oddball red fin about 2/3 down the Central Ave elevation.

Also the sun flare makes it appear that Plaza Midwood truly is the promised land.

[SgtCampsalot]

2 hours ago, archiham04 said:

^ It's possible, but I don't think so.  With two curbcuts, proximity to Hawthorne, and the Beaver breaking up the block, they would only have a limited number to put there.  The setback you see is likely necessitated by the dedicated future right of way that CATS has for Central.

It is a neighborhood goal to limit "dedicated" onstreet parking.  We are advocating to the city to limit the number of Harris Teeter style "stroad" parking spaces and to to allow off peak onstreet parking in the outermost lanes of Central from Louise to Brier Creek.  The goal being to essentially limit the road to a 2 lane road on off peak hours.

I see, So the "indented" spaces are not preferred for ideal long-term traffic-calming goals? I'd always assumed anything that adds space to the ROW is good, but youre saying that the city already included long-term ROW needs in the setbacks. 

So the goal is to make on-street patking a la the old strip on Central? I guess that explains why there's no extra street parking made at The Gibson, etc.

[archiham04]

No the indented spaces are not preferred.  They reserve a full 4 lanes for cars which largely negates many of the traffic calming attributes of on street parking.  The new-urbanists have dubbed this design the "stroad".... Basically it is the same old car-dominated, traffic-guzzling, road dressed up to look like a street.  The result is really a less safe environment because pedestrians see all the fancy amenities and think "oh, this is safe, people will be thinking of me as they drive through here...." but the Four 13 foot wide lanes + turning lane, says to the driver: "Haul ass through here boss... we've opened the road for you."

The end result does not favor pedestrian.

[Matthew.Brendan]

RE: "stroad". I am assuming this is a conglomeration of street and road. It just occurred to me that they likely have 2 different definitions, despite me mentally conflating the two all the time. Does the difference have to do with parking?

[SgtCampsalot]

Stroad is basically a roadway that is attempting to simultaneously serve businesses as a business corridor, and also move high capacities of traffic through as a thoroughfare, resulting in car sewers. Both uses are typically served ineffectively.

I guess that makes sense, like indented spaces imply the road CAN'T be narrowed at all, since the outer lanes would need to stay serving traffic so you're stuck with two lanes in each direction.

Edited May 9, 2017 by SgtCampsalot

[DEnd]

21 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

RE: "stroad". I am assuming this is a conglomeration of street and road. It just occurred to me that they likely have 2 different definitions, despite me mentally conflating the two all the time. Does the difference have to do with parking?

Sort of but not really.  Streets are designed to access property, Roads are designed to move traffic. 

Think about when you are driving Central Avenue through the heart of Plaza-Midwood (between Thomas and Pecan especially), you feel a bit nervous don't you?  Now think about driving Albemarle Rd. Both of these serve effectively the same function, but the experience is vastly different.  Which one of those would you want to get out of your car and walk around?  Now compare Albemarle Rd with Independence Blvd (between Uptown and Briar Creek) Which of these would you rather drive down?   

Indented on street parking actually is preferred, for some streetscapes.  For a modest reduction in parking you can get the traffic calming benefits (assuming the rest of the street is designed correctly), as well as street trees, and can get small turn radiuses at street corners.  However indented street parking can be just as bad as other designs.  Look at the design at Harris Teeter in Plaza-Midwood: Large corner radiuses, on street access from Central Ave to the store,  wider lanes, long turn lanes, etc...  All of these add up to a situation where it doesn't feel like you should be driving slower than you did before.  Don't get me wrong I'm actually OK with the Harris-Teeter design as it provides a transition, but that isn't really appropriate at Central and Hawthorne.  The current point of Central Ave is to provide access to Plaza-Midwood, not to connect uptown with the Eastland Mall Area.  With local access High speeds are actually detrimental and reduce local connectivity.

[southslider]

^Except Hawthorne is so close to the RR xing that 4 lanes are needed, plus a new signal at Clement will be even closer to the RR.

[tozmervo]

18 hours ago, DEnd said:

The current point of Central Ave is to provide access to Plaza-Midwood, not to connect uptown with the Eastland Mall Area.  With local access High speeds are actually detrimental and reduce local connectivity.

I generally agree with your points, except for this. Central Avenue is not there solely for the pleasure of P-M residents, there are many huge neighborhoods heading further east that rely on Central day-to-day. Changes to Central must take into account all the neighborhoods it serves.

[archiham04]

^Well, but there is Independence.  Independence is incredibly efficient.  I live in the middle of plaza midwood and (amazingly) it is faster for me to drive away from town, down  Central to Brier Creek and come in Independence than it is to drive in to uptown via Central.  Even with zero traffic at 4am in the morning.  Making Central less of an artery will have no detrimental impact on any neighborhoods East.

[archiham04]

...that said, I am a little worried about neighborhoods north that use Plaza/Parkwood to get into downtown.  Those folks have fewer options.  Perhaps we will widen North Davidson St.  (is there an emoticon for intentional provocation?)?

Edited May 11, 2017 by archiham04

[tozmervo]

4 hours ago, archiham04 said:

...that said, I am a little worried about neighborhoods north that use Plaza/Parkwood to get into downtown.  Those folks have fewer options.  Perhaps we will widen North Davidson St.  (is there an emoticon for intentional provocation?)?

Edit: sorry, this is actually an image of P-M residents on Nextdoor discussing the bike lane trial on The Plaza. (...ironically both for and against)

Edited May 11, 2017 by tozmervo

[SgtCampsalot]

Some foundation work at that site between the Fire Department and Whiskey Warehouse, formerly (shortly) the Duke's Bread old house parcel.

What in the world is going there?

[Midwoodian]

Sushi Guru I think. I saw that work the other day, couldn't snap a pick. Anyone know what that is? Would they need their foundation that deep?


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[southslider]

On 5/11/2017 at 9:14 AM, archiham04 said:

^Well, but there is Independence.  Independence is incredibly efficient.

The upcoming closure of the Hawthorne bridge, and along with it, the entire busway on Independence, will soon test this theory.  The former will be closed for multiple months. The latter will be closed for many more months.  The year-plus closure is thanks to NCDOT starting their toll lanes over a half year later than the City starting bridge work for streetcar. 

 

Edited May 14, 2017 by southslider

[SgtCampsalot]

20 hours ago, Midwoodian said:

Sushi Guru I think. I saw that work the other day, couldn't snap a pick. Anyone know what that is? Would they need their foundation that deep?
 

Is it really just a one story retail building. That seems unlikely, between the extreme foundation, prime location, and that the original building couldve cheaply been a restaurant anyway. It's gotta be a 2 or 3 story office/apts w retail.

Edited May 14, 2017 by SgtCampsalot