Plaza-Midwood Projects (Central, Commonwealth, The Plaza)

[Andyc545]

I received an email update on The Vyne and it also mentioned it being a gated community. One other small luxury I noticed in the email that I hadn't heard before was Bamboo Flooring. Not too familiar with it but sounds pretty excuisite.

[j_design]

**ADMIN NOTE**

Do *NOT* make a post simply containing a link. If you want to put a link in a post please post why it is relevant to the thread.

[Raintree21]

http://www.charlotte.com/business/story/225696.html

The link above goes to an Observer article talking about Plaza Midwood. The neighborhood is trying to coordinate their efforts with builders/architects to continue to allow but discourage people from tearing down the old houses and building "McMansions." The hope is that the neighborhood will continue to keep it charm.

[CLTNative]

Just an update:

A. From what I hear, the Industry 29 condos at Briarcreek and 74 are selling pretty well since the Doug Smith endorsement. I know the builder is going to cut off the sales at a certain point, I think 18 units, until after construction has started.

B. Morningside is demo'd almost all the way down McClintock on the Commonwealth side of the road. Is Beazer still involved with this strip?

C. Two of the houses on the Plaza-Vu site are gone, I believe one more will be taken down (maybe two). We should see some activity there soon. Anyone know how sales are going?

Also, I am sure there are people on here that read (or are a part of) the neighborhood forums for Merry Oaks and Commonwealth Park. There is a lot of buzz about the issues Tuscan is having with DUO and the new connecting road. There is also some controversy over the Vyne being gated. I never heard anything about a gate until reading the google group. It seems they have now added a pool, so the gate is necessary.

You can read for yourself if you like: Merry Oaks Neighborhood Forum and Commonwealth Park Neighborhood Forum

Does anyone know a timeline for the Carrabas/Little Italy/McDonalds happenings on Central Ave near SteelHaus? I am still not sure how I feel about a Carrabas on Central, but if it brings an entire building similar to the one in South End (as opposed to the stand alone restaurant in Matthews) I will keep the complaints to a minimum.

[voyager12]

I can name about a dozen complexes all over town with pools that are not gated and more. I know older apt complexes farther along Central are gated which I also think is wasteful and not a strong crime deterrent. The Vyne wants a gate because the developer is still squeamish about building in that neighborhood and they think erecting a barrier will make The Vyne ""exclusive" which would be fine if they were locating in South Charlotte where it's ostensibly mandatory to cover everything with brick walls and fancy gates. Overall East Charlotte has a more laid back authentic rep and that vibe should be enhanced.

Edited August 6, 2007 by voyager12

[Justadude]

A pool is not a valid reason to gate the entire community. That sounds like developer-spin to me.

[Raintree21]

The pool only has to be fenced around the edge of it only. Health Department will shut down the pool as a hazard if the fence is not up. The development itself does not.

[sfmartin]

I noticed a "For Lease" sign with a rendering of a new 'development' roughly in front of the White Rabbit on Central ... from the quick glance I took it looked substantial; I did not catch the name of the developer or anything else really. Anybody know about this?

[voyager12]

I noticed a "For Lease" sign with a rendering of a new 'development' roughly in front of the White Rabbit on Central ... from the quick glance I took it looked substantial; I did not catch the name of the developer or anything else really. Anybody know about this?

You beat me to it! I noticed as well. I really hope White Rabbit and The Community Center are not getting kicked out for a new development. The Center just recently righted the ship and they are on sound financial ground. I don't where they could go if they were forced out.

Edited August 10, 2007 by voyager12

[cltgirl]

According to president of the CMNA, Providence Development has announced that the building currently occupied by the White Rabbit and the Community Center will be going through a huge renovation. It will include office space, retail space, art galleries and a 2 story Starbucks with a roof top terrace facing uptown!

[voyager12]

Well with one fell swoop you can kiss goodbye any chance of PlazaMidwood retaining any of it's bohemian character after this project goes through. A two story Starbucks? Right near the 7th St and newly opened Liz Ave Starbucks? The space The Gay Community Center and White Rabbit inhabits currently is far from ideal but having visibility is very important and I hope they have some other venues that they can relocate to. I find this all very sad and a huge blow to what makes Plaza Midwood special. Plaza Midwood seems to be right on track to becoming another Dilworth. And I love Dilworth or I would not live in the neighborhood. It's beautiful and walkable and almost totally yuppie. PlazaMidwood is supposed to be funkier!

Edited August 11, 2007 by voyager12

[CLTNative]

I completely agree! I love Dilworth because it is Dilworth, I LIVE in Plaza Midwood (Commonwealth) because it is Plaza Midwood. I am intrieged by the project except for the Starbucks, we have great coffee at Common Market AND NOVA's!! There is a Starbucks on 7th, one on Liz, and one on Cherokee near providence. You can walk to two of those from Central on a nice day. Who needs that much espresso? People please, put the machine in your house, it is much cheaper and it saves the rest of us the torture of looking at a starbucks on every freakin corner!!

Almost didnt mean to rant! Anyone know who is building this gem?? I hope it at least looks like it belongs in PM, not Phillips Place!!

I also like the exposure for the Community Center being in this location, I hope it can find a new location with the same traffic. The White Rabbit on the other hand, I like the old house much better. If they could find another old house in the neighborhood and relocate, that would be terrific! I dont want to see either leave the hood though. This area is the closest we have to a gay district in this town (before South Park got remodeled, of course).

[voyager12]

I know this is the way "progress works" but it's a bummer all the same. All the new condo projects going into PlazaMidwood tout the neighborhood's quirky character as a selling point but they are unwittingly changing this charm by going in there. I don't think most residents want a multi-story Starbucks as a local watering hole. Nova's, Common Market make PM unique and this development is only going to increase pressure and bring in more chains. It would be great if another location for White Rabbit and The Center could be found in the same neighborhood. I don't imagine that many neighborhoods in Charlotte outside of PM would want gay oriented organizations located around them.

Edited August 11, 2007 by voyager12

[Charlotte_native]

Well with one fell swoop you can kiss goodbye any chance of PlazaMidwood retaining any of it's bohemian character after this project goes through.

Love ya Voyager, but don't you think that is a bit reactionary? I HATE the fact that the community center and White Rabbit are leaving and I don't like what is replacing them so I am not a supporter of this at all, but I don't think they (community center and White Rabbit) had much of a part in the core of Plaza-Midwood and its feel. Mostly just for us gays but this building is a couple blocks from the real heart and soul of PM. Ask most people why they like PM and they will tell you Common Market and Swig, Boris and Natasha, Thomas Street Tavern, Penguin, Dish, the two tattoo parlours, Nova's Bakery, Dairy Queen, the original Fuel Pizza, Snug Harbor, Century Antiques, City Supply Company, the Reggae place, House of Africa, etc. The true core of PM is doing just fine and the businesses are doing very well. It is still one of my favorite funky places in the city and appears to be poised to keep its character at least for a long time.

Again, I agree that it sucks that these two businesses are being pushed out, but lets not overstate their influence in the neighborhood and its overall feel.

I don't imagine that many neighborhoods in Charlotte outside of PM would want gay oriented organizations located around them.

I don't know if I can agree with that. I doubt most neighborhoods near center city would care. Strip club, nightclub, maybe, but White Rabbit could easily locate in Wesley Heights, Wilmore, Southend, Dilworth, NoDa, without so much as a peep. I obviously could be wrong, but a gay store or a community center really isn't that controversial. The bigger issue is what can either of these afford. Most central neighborhoods would likely be too expensive.

[voyager12]

I tend to freak out at real estate trends and gentrification for personal reasons but deep breathing helps the ranting subside You are correct that The Center and Rabbit are not the main attractions in the hood. However their presence and all the rainblow flags flying in front of the center send an important message about the the accepting nature of PlazaMidwood and I would hate to see that visbility diminished. And perhaps it is just me but having a community center of any group being replaced by a Starbucks just rubs me the wrong way! Strikes me as morally wrong for some reason. I will have to call around or go by and find out if White Rabbit or The Center have contingency plans. Building aside, several non-profit groups have support meetings at The Center and they could all be put in a real bind by this change. And I don't hate Starbucks. I go to there sometimes. They are a green friendly, progressive company that provides good benefits and treats their employees well. I don't agree with their avaricious world domination plan but I guess that's how they stay on top.

Edited August 12, 2007 by voyager12

[cltgirl]

Doesn't anybody see the positive side of this development?? Rebuilding that area will make the walkable part of Central Avenue much longer. The development is going to be bigger than just the Starbucks, but the fact that it will include a Starbucks will only bring in more people and more businesses to the area. Plus they are going to take advantage of the gorgeous skyline views we have from Central with a rooftop deck. I think this part of it will make it a very unique Starbucks and hopefully will encourage other businesses to take advantage of outdoor space and views as well.

I agree that Nova's and CM have great coffee as well, but they aren't designed in a way to allow people to hang out and want to stay for a while, and they don't really offer any outdoor space. That is what is great about the Starbucks on Dilworth, it is big and cozy with indoor and outdoor space, and encourages people to come and hang out and then walk to the shops and restaraunts near by. So, I am hoping that the Starbucks on Central can offer the same function while being its own unique style that fits into the eclectic vibe of Midwood.

Just like Charlotte_native mentioned, there are plenty of great places that will ensure PM keeps its vibe no matter how the Starbucks turns out.

[voyager12]

I agree with making Central more walkable. I don't agree with dismissing The Community Center like it does not matter to Charlotte. Granted it only matters to a small sliver of the population and it's has not been managed well in the past. That aside it serves an important function as a source of information and acceptance in a conservative town. So for me it's hard to equate that important value with another coffee store. Even with a killer view.

Edited August 12, 2007 by voyager12

[cltgirl]

I agree with making Central more walkable. I don't agree with dismissing The Community Center like it does not matter to Charlotte. Granted it only matters to a small sliver of the population and it's has not been managed well in the past. That aside it serves an important function as a source of information and acceptance in a conservative town. So for me it's hard to equate that important value with another coffee store. Even with a killer view.

Ok, I can see that. But do we really know what is happening to the community center in this deal? I don't think anybody has confirmed that it is going away. Let's hope there will be a nice space for them in the new building.

[appatone]

For the record, I don't think Starbucks will attract new businesses or people to PM, the local establishments in PM are doing a much better job of that right now. Starbucks is riding the wave not making it. It just seems to me that a Starbucks in that location is at best unnecessary. V12's point is very valid in reference to the message the center and their flags send upon entering the neighborhood that the neighborhood is accepting of homosexuals, by that same token the message a Starbucks sends is clear as well. That message being that the neighborhood is accepting of homogenization. I'm all for increasing the urban style development in the area but not this way. It has been common knowledge that PM has been in need of a good coffee house for a while now but accepting Starbucks just doesn't seem to be the right answer. It looks like this new development will do for the one side of the road what that CVS did for the other. BTW, what about that old house right there on Central sandwiched in by the other storefronts. It's empty right now and driving past it the other day I thought about what a great coffee house it would make. Heck, it would even make a decent community center.

[atlrvr]

While people may not like Starbucks for its corporate nature (though they do seem to do a good job promoting humanitarian causes), from an urban standpoint, they are very successful. They drive a tremendous volume of foot-traffic and most locations with patios have people packed in the setback that is usually the typical Charlotte dyed red mulch and boxwood shrubs.

Is it needed? That's for the market to sort out, but I too would be happy for the urban streetscape to be extended along Central.

[voyager12]

I am going to go by this week and inquire about any moving plans White Rabbit and The Center may have. Cltgirl's idea about providing space in the new building is wonderful. I just highly doubt that the new developer is going to set aside space for a nonprofit and minority bookstore when their PR is touting a state of the art Starbucks which would equal to me high end retail accompanying it.

[Charlotte_native]

Is Starbucks the little version of Wal-Mart? I admit I drink the coffee at times, but do we really need them EVERYWHERE and often in areas already served by what they sell? Like Wal-Mart, it seems that for all their good they will eventually strangle out the mom & pop operations.

[Charlotte_native]

The Center and Rabbit are not the main attractions in the hood. However their presence and all the rainblow flags flying in front of the center send an important message about the the accepting nature of PlazaMidwood and I would hate to see that visbility diminished.

Excellent point I had not really considered.

[New Name]

May I change gears here for a second? I was wondering about The Plaza - and this seemed like a good thread. I won't lie, my wife and I are looking to move to North Charlotte just between Noda and The Plaza, and I would like to know as much information as possible (I know real estate questions aren't allowed, but this is about the neighborhood). Specifically, when did the section of The Plaza between the Parkwood split and Central become historic, is it a result of Plaza Midwood Neighborhood, or was the road given attention even before the neighborhood came into it's own? And how far up does the designations stretch? Are there plans to clean up The Plaza north of that split? I need your take on this neighborhood, for my and my wife's well being. Thanks!

[Charlotte_native]

May I change gears here for a second? I was wondering about The Plaza - and this seemed like a good thread. I won't lie, my wife and I are looking to move to North Charlotte just between Noda and The Plaza, and I would like to know as much information as possible (I know real estate questions aren't allowed, but this is about the neighborhood). Specifically, when did the section of The Plaza between the Parkwood split and Central become historic, is it a result of Plaza Midwood Neighborhood, or was the road given attention even before the neighborhood came into it's own?

I think the part of Plaza that is designated historic is mostly what originally was the actual neighborhood. What we know as "Plaza-Midwood" now is actually a total of over 12 subdivisions and neighborhoods platted at different times that have since become what we consider one neighborhood.

I don't know of city or government plans for Parkwood or The Plaza once it intersects with Parkwood and moves East, but there is a good bit of private development planned in the general area, especially along Drummond Avenue and the surrounding blocks.

Plaza-Midwood, Belmont, Villa Heights, and the surrounding areas are all feeling and having change though -- I don't think any of them will not change over the next 2 -- 5 years.