Plaza-Midwood Projects (Central, Commonwealth, The Plaza)

[atlrvr]

This is a NC Brownfields project.  It is working through certification right now.  I'm a bit confused on the commercial use, because the proposed uses don't indicate it for anything other than active amenity space, but the site plan has it labeled as commercial.

[Miesian Corners]

Will commercial space work at this site?  How/where do you park it?  Also, I'm thinking that CDOT might have a problem with the main entrance to the complex not being on axis with Westover Street.

[rjp212]

Will commercial space work at this site?  How/where do you park it?  Also, I'm thinking that CDOT might have a problem with the main entrance to the complex not being on axis with Westover Street.

 

There's street parking and I'm sure most of the units will be 1 bedroom, maybe a few 2 bedrooms.   I think there would be enough parking for a restaurant.

[Guest]

I don't mind it.

[nonillogical]

I'm getting rather sick of the modernist wing corner pieces on these buildings, and think this one might actually look better without it since it has some more classic forms on the facade, but yeah this is a good infill project. I would defend Tommy's if they were interested in fighting to stay in that spot, but if they aren't, it doesn't seem like much of a cause to rally around. 

[InitialD]

I must be getting old because I support the petition against more McApartments replacing Tommy's Pub. As someone who's frequented Tommy's Pub, it's been an important venue for young and upcoming musicians needing experience performing live. The city is selling out its soul and losing important venues like Chop Shop, Roux!, Tommy's Pub. I see a growing rift in PM and NoDa between the neo-carpetbagging "young professionals" and the creative class. Gotta sell out for those McApartments, though.

[kermit]

^ not trying to be dismissive but you imply that the soul selling is new. Charlotte has been doing this since I moved here (back in the last century) and probably since WWII. Its nothing new and I don't think its accelerated any.

Perhaps its time we embraced our 'Las Vegas of the South' attitude towards historic preservation. After all there really isn't much left.

Edited May 18, 2015 by kermit

[Niner National]

I must be getting old because I support the petition against more McApartments replacing Tommy's Pub. As someone who's frequented Tommy's Pub, it's been an important venue for young and upcoming musicians needing experience performing live. The city is selling out its soul and losing important venues like Chop Shop, Roux!, Tommy's Pub. I see a growing rift in PM and NoDa between the neo-carpetbagging "young professionals" and the creative class. Gotta sell out for those McApartments, though.

Chop Shop is like 5 years old. If it can pop up and become a huge success in a short period of time, then something else can do the same.

[Crown]

Who's bringing the popcorn tonight? 

[LoLo]

 

As a developer in a neighborhood like PM, you're going to be hated, by someone, no matter what you do.

This is a huge cop-out and it's really not true. Some of us PM residents are a bit tired of seeing crappy apartments and bad traffic with zero foresight. You plan 100 homes with .2-acre lot behind Veterans Park and not that many folks are going to be angry. You plan a nice retail spot with parking in the back; not many complaints. It's the path of least ($$) resistance crap that bites.

[Carolina Ron]

Would it be at all feasible to move the Tommy's Pub building to one end of the parcel and work it into the design, similar to what the Ratcliff did with the building that currently houses Bernardine's downtown?  If people are so passionate about that business, the effort might go a long way to keep all parties happy.  

 

Of course I am no expert on what that would entail- maybe it just wouldn't end up cost effective, or maybe the Tommy's Pub building is not structurally sound enough to do so- but it sure would score some points for the developer.

[Guest]

This is a huge cop-out and it's really not true. Some of us PM residents are a bit tired of seeing crappy apartments and bad traffic with zero foresight. You plan 100 homes with .2-acre lot behind Veterans Park and not that many folks are going to be angry. You plan a nice retail spot with parking in the back; not many complaints. It's the path of least ($$) resistance crap that bites.

This development has a 5k sq feet of retail and replaces a vacant lot and just so happens to replace a half empty building.

 

This building replaces pretty much everything in this picture on the left. I see no problem with this.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.220035,-80.80727,3a,75y,69.13h,75.55t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1srM39chIv_zycU4JV5SiRzw!2e0!6m1!1e1

Edited May 18, 2015 by Guest

[Niner National]

This is a huge cop-out and it's really not true. Some of us PM residents are a bit tired of seeing crappy apartments and bad traffic with zero foresight. You plan 100 homes with .2-acre lot behind Veterans Park and not that many folks are going to be angry. You plan a nice retail spot with parking in the back; not many complaints. It's the path of least ($$) resistance crap that bites.

Putting single family homes on .2 acre lots isn't really going to do much to address the growth issues the city is going to face in the coming decades and I think many people here would view it as an under-utilization of the space.

 

Like RDF said this spot has 5000 feet of retail, replaces a half empty building and a vacant lot on a brownfield site. There at least some regard for the style of the neighborhood in the choice of exterior materials being used, so I just view it as people complaining because they don't want to see anything change, just as those that occupied the area before them probably weren't thrilled with being pushed out by rising property values.

[Guest]

How did the rezoning go?

[cltbwimob]

How did the rezoning go?

Apparently, the anti-rezoning crowd showed up in force.

 

http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/local/plaza-midwood/2015/05/18/plaza-midwood-pleads-with-city-council-to-stop-sterilizing-charlotte/27565229/

[Guest]

Wow. I did not expect that. I thought the developer had some support, including the neighborhood association.

[teeg]

Wow. I did not expect that. I thought the developer had some support, including the neighborhood association.

 

I'm not completely shocked.  Reminds me of a similar case 9 years ago.  A developer held a community meeting about a proposed plan to build townhomes on the SE corner of Pecan and Hamorton.  The neighbors in attendance, myself included, did not like the plan, and the architect expressed disappointment at our reaction since the neighborhood association was all for it.  At the time, at least, it seemed like the PMNA thought of the areas near the business district as a bit of a problem, and would have welcomed any development that would clean it up.  

 

In retrospect, it was a really nice proposal.  I still do not think that was the right location for it, but would love to see it in place of some of the other cheap crap built in the neighborhood recently.  

[pgsinger]

Watch this end up just like Solis Dilworth.  Anti-development people complain about a project that is not that bad (or in this case good), so the developer builds something worse the complies with current zoning.  I think it will still pass.  Patsy Kinsey has been in close contact with PMNA, and I think she will value their opinion over these protesters.  I sure hope so at least.

[tozmervo]

Patsy was apparently quoted as something to the effect of "tired of these mega-apartment projects," so I guess we'll see. 

[Niner National]

Patsy was apparently quoted as something to the effect of "tired of these mega-apartment projects," so I guess we'll see. 

I don't really consider this one a mega apartment project. Sure it's not small, but it is nothing like Pollack, or even the Levine project on Commonwealth.

 

If you force the project to downsize as a condition for rezoning, you're only going to push the rents higher in the building because now you have fewer units to spread the cost of land acquisition and site work around to, only making rent in the neighborhood even higher.

[pgsinger]

I don't really consider this one a mega apartment project. Sure it's not small, but it is nothing like Pollack, or even the Levine project on Commonwealth.

 

If you force the project to downsize as a condition for rezoning, you're only going to push the rents higher in the building because now you have fewer units to spread the cost of land acquisition and site work around to, only making rent in the neighborhood even higher.

 

And you will probably lose the retail and get a fitness center of small lounge for residents in the front.  Couldn't the developer (ignoring financials) just do two 35 unit projects on either side of Tommy's without a rezoning?  The neighborhood ends up with nearly the same number of units, at a higher cost due to being slightly fewer units and in two different structures, but loses the retail.  Then the Tommy's closes anyway because of the inevitability of increased rent in the neighborhood.

 

Or is the bigger issue the Brownsfield designation limiting what can go here?

[pgsinger]

Also, how about these genius quotes: "We're the last neighborhood in this city that cares about artists." and this one "Jenna Thompson, said, 'Development is going to happen no matter what, and that's okay. But I feel like we have to do it in a way that everyone-- particularly the people who built this neighborhood out of a horrible, scary place to be-- they need to be able to stay here. They need to be able to afford rent. They need to be able to afford their property tax."'

 

I am sure she cared about the "scary" minorities and older people that lived here before she and her cohorts "built this neighborhood."  I don't see much in the way of affordable housing for those people.

 

This complaint really hits a nerve with me.  This protests is clearly being led by people that do not understand much, if anything, about development.

[Midwoodian]

Patsy was apparently quoted as something to the effect of "tired of these mega-apartment projects," so I guess we'll see. 

 

I believe this quote was in context to another rezoning petition in front of City Council for a proposed at Sharon and Park Roads (the quote from Patsy was provided in that portion of the Observer article); or, was at least said by her during the discussion of that project.  It could be directed at both projects and many of the other projects in Charlotte right now, though.

 

Park Road plan draws opposition

A plan to build 18 for-sale townhouses and 36 apartment rental units at Park and Sharon roads also drew opposition from neighbors, who have filed a protest petition.

Several dozen people held white signs that read “Park Sharon Rezoning Vote No” at the meeting. Neighbors have said developer Jason MacArthur and Park Sharon Properties’ plans for the vacant 4.7-acre site are too dense and could generate too much traffic.

At least one council member was skeptical. “I’m really tired of seeing these humongous apartment buildings being built,” said Patsy Kinsey, a Democrat. Her remark drew applause and cheers.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article21342657.html#storylink=cpy

[CMBX 4]

Also, how about these genius quotes: "We're the last neighborhood in this city that cares about artists." and this one "Jenna Thompson, said, 'Development is going to happen no matter what, and that's okay. But I feel like we have to do it in a way that everyone-- particularly the people who built this neighborhood out of a horrible, scary place to be-- they need to be able to stay here. They need to be able to afford rent. They need to be able to afford their property tax."'

 

I am sure she cared about the "scary" minorities and older people that lived here before she and her cohorts "built this neighborhood."  I don't see much in the way of affordable housing for those people.

 

This complaint really hits a nerve with me.  This protests is clearly being led by people that do not understand much, if anything, about development.

 

I agree with this quote: PM is an up and coming neighborhood. We need to clean up the trash and move these hipsters out. They do nothing but hold us back. Every time I walk into CM it feels to me that it gets grungier by the minute. Hopefully the Gold Line will bring better character to the neighborhood.  

 

PS. did you see the people in the link above, Read more here: http://www.charlotte...l#storylink=cpy, these people need to grow up and get rid of their troll-like hair. They are a joke to society. 

 

#gotakeashowerhipster

[Niner National]

I agree with this quote: PM is an up and coming neighborhood. We need to clean up the trash and move these hipsters out. They do nothing but hold us back. Every time I walk into CM it feels to me that it gets grungier by the minute. Hopefully the Gold Line will bring better character to the neighborhood.  

 

PS. did you see the people in the link above, Read more here: http://www.charlotte...l#storylink=cpy, these people need to grow up and get rid of their troll-like hair. They are a joke to society. 

 

#gotakeashowerhipster

I don't inherently dislike hipsters because of how they look or dress, but I do get tired of the attitude that they're the only cultured people in the city.

 

Culture manifests itself in a lot of different ways. You don't have to look like an unshowered bum that got into a fight with a box of markers while running through a thrift shop to have "culture."

 

I made a comment on the PM page a few nights ago and was responded to with "hey, nice suit" by a girl that looked like she'd made a solid 15 years of bad life decisions. It's that kind of attitude that leads me to almost cheer for them to lose any argument they're involved in.