Plaza-Midwood Projects (Central, Commonwealth, The Plaza)

[MrBluePrint]

Not looking for anything "sanitized."  I prefer to do business with businesses I can walk to.

 

I just don't like eating food, or even picking up to-go food, from CM considering the current state of its patio and the daytime crowd there. In just the past year, I've seen quite a decline from a community- (and yes that includes family-)  friendly deli and shop to a decent deli fronted by a patio that smells like cigarettes, urine and dog poo and is populated by a crowd of all-day drinkers.

 

And Nova's -- I love the baked goods, but they need to clean up their storefront too. 

 

Sorry to hear about John's. I'm sure he will do fine. If the rent is that high, how do the other shops on that side of the street survive?

 

Looking forward to Workman's.

[Niner National]

Not looking for anything "sanitized."  I prefer to do business with businesses I can walk to.

 

I just don't like eating food, or even picking up to-go food, from CM considering the current state of its patio and the daytime crowd there. In just the past year, I've seen quite a decline from a community- (and yes that includes family-)  friendly deli and shop to a decent deli fronted by a patio that smells like cigarettes, urine and dog poo and is populated by a crowd of all-day drinkers.

 

And Nova's -- I love the baked goods, but they need to clean up their storefront too. 

 

Sorry to hear about John's. I'm sure he will do fine. If the rent is that high, how do the other shops on that side of the street survive?

 

Looking forward to Workman's.

Different owners for most if not all of those shops. I'm sure we'll see many more businesses forced out by higher rents in the future unless they own their buildings. Jimmy (John's son, who has run the restaurant for many years), doesn't want to shut down, but he said he can't afford to pay 3x the rent. He also said the owners refused to do any upfits to modernize the place even if he did renew--he'd have to pay for it all out of pocket.

 

 

As for Nova's, I don't really know what is wrong with their storefront? I haven't really noticed anything wrong with it personally. There are a lot of cigarette butts around, but that is the story of Central Ave. unfortunately.

 

 

I think you might have just caught CM on some bad days. My office is in the neighborhood and I eat lunch there fairly regularly. The patio is usually fairly empty during the day. There are a few people out there, but it is never filled with smokers and I honestly don't know if I've ever seen anyone day drinking outside, at least not to the extent you've described.

[Guest]

I made a little mini-study of land use. I see Plaza Midwood as having potential (again and again), but I think it has alot of work ahead of itself. Land use shows alot of space is taken up by grass lots, surface parking, and some greenspace. In the center of the study area in Plaza Midwood is that single street of those closely placed shops where you can find Nova's bakery. I find it a bit simular to Savannah, but that's it. I doesn't even cover a whole city block.

 

Not that Plaza Midwood should copy Savannah, but it needs more infill and a-lot less emphasis in parking. It's honesty the obsession over parking capacity that I think will ultimately hurt the community. A 1:1 ratio of parking per unit is especially threatening. If a developer wants to build a 4-5 story apartment with those requirements, I certainly would oppose it. Also, remember that virtually all parking decks turn very ugly and kill streetlife.

 

 

[Crown]

I made a little mini-study of land use. I see Plaza Midwood as having potential (again and again), but I think it has alot of work ahead of itself. Land use shows alot of space is taken up by grass lots, surface parking, and some greenspace. In the center of the study area in Plaza Midwood is that single street of those closely placed shops where you can find Nova's bakery. I find it a bit simular to Savannah, but that's it. I doesn't even cover a whole city block.

 

Not that Plaza Midwood should copy Savannah, but it needs more infill and a-lot less emphasis in parking. It's honesty the obsession over parking capacity that I think will ultimately hurt the community. A 1:1 ratio of parking per unit is especially threatening. If a developer wants to build a 4-5 story apartment with those requirements, I certainly would oppose it. Also, remember that virtually all parking decks turn very ugly and kill streetlife.

 

 

 

I double dog dare you to post this on the PM facebook page. 

[ah59396]

This isn't just a PM issue though. The lack of a uniform planning (or I guess zoning) of buildings across the city has led to complete hodgepodge of buildings. Drive down south blvd, it's a complete mess. From Tremont to Remount alone you hit parking lots with strip malls out of the suburbs, street front retail, apartments with grass and planters between them and the sidewalk, fallowed fields, ect. It's just a mess.

[Guest]

I double dog dare you to post this on the PM facebook page.

I octuple dog dare you, and if he doesn't I'll bogart it

[Guest]

I've come to the conclusion that whole districts are hopeless and may go total Detroit but these historic neighborhoods in Charlotte can pull it off but it has to be done right. Savannah is a glorious city, but that spectacular urban design falls apart after just a block or so of parking and ugly buildings. Basically, the further south you walk from the historic district of Savannah, the worse it gets.

Also, what happens if I post it on the PM facebook page?

Edited May 27, 2015 by mazman34340

[Guest]

I've come to the conclusion that whole districts are hopeless and may go total Detroit but these historic neighborhoods in Charlotte can pull it off but it has to be done right. Savannah is a glorious city, but that spectacular urban design falls apart after just a block or so of parking and ugly buildings. Basically, the further south you walk from the historic district of Savannah, the worse it gets.

Also, what happens if I post it on the PM facebook page?

I posted a picture of Thirsty Beaver wedged into a mixed use project and there were like 100 comments and 200 and something likes. The people on it range from Stupid and Crazy, to Intelligent and Crazy. 

[ah59396]

The PM Facebook page is the Mad Max of Facebook pages.

[teeg]

I made a little mini-study of land use. I see Plaza Midwood as having potential (again and again), but I think it has alot of work ahead of itself. Land use shows alot of space is taken up by grass lots, surface parking, and some greenspace. In the center of the study area in Plaza Midwood is that single street of those closely placed shops where you can find Nova's bakery. I find it a bit simular to Savannah, but that's it. I doesn't even cover a whole city block.

Not that Plaza Midwood should copy Savannah, but it needs more infill and a-lot less emphasis in parking. It's honesty the obsession over parking capacity that I think will ultimately hurt the community. A 1:1 ratio of parking per unit is especially threatening. If a developer wants to build a 4-5 story apartment with those requirements, I certainly would oppose it. Also, remember that virtually all parking decks turn very ugly and kill streetlife.

Missing quite a few houses on the Plaza Midwood map.

[pgsinger]

This just brings us all the way back to the argument of form based zoning versus Euclidean zoning.  I started a thread several months back that got a couple weeks of good discussion then it died (there probably wasn't much more to discuss).  One of the points was the impact of minimum parking requirements versus maximum parking requirements.  An example of this in PM is likely Legion Brewing.  If they didn't need more parking due to zoning, they might not be buying up the lot next to them and exchanging two buildings (albeit it crappy buildings) for a surface lot.

 

PM needs an extension of the PED Overlay (revised to require true retail along Central, and IMHO parking maximums as opposed to minimums) beyond the HT.  Exchange true retail on the street for some of the buildings like Tommy's, the auto shops next to it, the restaurant at Tippah Park, the strip of buildings from McD's to Morningside (Sorry Nick's), and everything on the Veteran's Park side between the Army Reserve and Morningside.

[orulz]

I made a little mini-study of land use. I see Plaza Midwood as having potential (again and again), but I think it has alot of work ahead of itself. Land use shows alot of space is taken up by grass lots, surface parking, and some greenspace. In the center of the study area in Plaza Midwood is that single street of those closely placed shops where you can find Nova's bakery. I find it a bit simular to Savannah, but that's it. I doesn't even cover a whole city block.

 

Not that Plaza Midwood should copy Savannah, but it needs more infill and a-lot less emphasis in parking. It's honesty the obsession over parking capacity that I think will ultimately hurt the community. A 1:1 ratio of parking per unit is especially threatening. If a developer wants to build a 4-5 story apartment with those requirements, I certainly would oppose it. Also, remember that virtually all parking decks turn very ugly and kill streetlife.

I don't know Charlotte's zoning code very well, but here in Raleigh they have an interesting zoning provision that y'all should look at. I've mentioned it before. In Raleigh's new form-based Unified Development Ordinance, any lot with an "urban" frontage earns an exemption from parking requirements for the first 16 units and 10,000 square feet of ground-floor retail. In practice this has resulted in a bunch of small-scale apartment buildings with less than 30 units, retail on the ground floor, and significantly less than 1:1 parking ratios. Developers sometimes take the full 16-unit exemption and sometimes they only take part of it, but in practice it gives the developer flexibility to build only as much parking as they think they will actually need. All in all the urban form of these buildings have been pretty fantastic so far.

Mostly this has happened in the Hillsborough Street corridor (I can think of eight such projects - five of which are developed by the Charlotte-based company FMW). I would consider neighborhoods like Plaza-Midwood, or particularly NoDa given the light rail and access to the university, to be great candidates for this approach.

[Guest]

The closer I get to graduation, the more pumped up I get. Yeah, its post graduation mania, but dammit; I want to help. I spent four years in Savannah, and I know why it's one of the most beautiful cities in the country. Charlotte will lag behind if it continues it's ridiculous growth, it's large scale projects downtown, and its destruction of the environment.

 

Proper development of Plaza Midwood would only be the beginning.

 

CHARGE!

[15895]

The closer I get to graduation, the more pumped up I get. Yeah, its post graduation mania, but dammit; I want to help. I spent four years in Savannah, and I know why it's one of the most beautiful cities in the country. Charlotte will lag behind if it continues it's ridiculous growth, it's large scale projects downtown, and its destruction of the environment.

Proper development of Plaza Midwood would only be the beginning.

CHARGE!

Yeahhh, I prefer our large scale downtown developments (plus Lowrise density, townhomes, etc)...

Now Plaza, NoDa & Dilworth; knock yourself out

[CLTProductions]

Coming next to whiskey warehouse!

Sushi Guru

Detailed Scope of Work: Remove the existing building and construct a new restaurant (2-story building) with associated parking. As part of the construction, one of the two existing driveway will be removed and the other will be modified.

[boochops]

that's fantastic! I thought it was going over by 5 points across from Intermezzo and Central Coffee? Not that it matters, I'm just thrilled it's coming. 

[CLTProductions]

that's fantastic! I thought it was going over by 5 points across from Intermezzo and Central Coffee? Not that it matters, I'm just thrilled it's coming. 

I actually thought it was too, but the address they now have is 1217 THE PLAZA CHARLOTTE NC 28205

[MrBluePrint]

 

As for Nova's, I don't really know what is wrong with their storefront? I haven't really noticed anything wrong with it personally. There are a lot of cigarette butts around, but that is the story of Central Ave. unfortunately.

 

 

I think you might have just caught CM on some bad days. My office is in the neighborhood and I eat lunch there fairly regularly. The patio is usually fairly empty during the day. There are a few people out there, but it is never filled with smokers and I honestly don't know if I've ever seen anyone day drinking outside, at least not to the extent you've described.

I guess "storefront" is not the right term. They have a small room to the side of the main room where there are a few pieces of furniture. Last visit, there was a couple enjoying themselves in a horizonal position on the sofa. The time before that, there was a guy in there passed out. That was twice in one week. The eating area never feels clean or comfortable. I think they'd do much more business if they spruced up.

 

The street has so much potential, but it just seems dead. I can't put my finger on it, but there just isn't any vibrance in that block, really on either side. The businesses have a dark and closed feeling about them.

 

I'll continue to go to CM ocasionally but I am looking forward to the new additions, including the Latin place, the Sushi Guru and the Workman's Friend. Was really hoping Legion would serve food, too.

Please indulge a newcomer with questions: What's being built on Commonweatlh across and up from the skate shop? And on Central, next to the VFW?

[southslider]

^Apartments at both locations

[MrBluePrint]

^Apartments at both locations

Really? The site down on Central looks like fast food or something. With all these new apartments coming in up and down Central, I can't imagine how much harder it's going to be to park at Harris Teeter. I like to walk when I can, but when I drive, it's difficult to find a spot.

[Guest]

Really? The site down on Central looks like fast food or something. With all these new apartments coming in up and down Central, I can't imagine how much harder it's going to be to park at Harris Teeter. I like to walk when I can, but when I drive, it's difficult to find a spot.

Yea, Harris Teeter really missed a good opportunity. They should have dug down a floor or two and done underground parking. They should have then filled out the block with more urban retail with Townhouses on top. 

[Crown]

Re: Sushi Guru. . . Is Duke's bread still open? 

[plaza-midwooder]

Re: Sushi Guru. . . Is Duke's bread still open? 

Duke's Bread was only open for a short time and was replaced with something else last Fall.

[Niner National]

Duke's Bread was only open for a short time and was replaced with something else last Fall.

Duke's is still "open," just not operating in PM I believe. I think they realized their best business model was to sell bread to restaurants rather than having a public store front.

[LoLo]

Really? The site down on Central looks like fast food or something. With all these new apartments coming in up and down Central, I can't imagine how much harder it's going to be to park at Harris Teeter. I like to walk when I can, but when I drive, it's difficult to find a spot.

I don't think you're allowed to criticize "developers" or allowed to complain about all the apartments or traffic on this board. You'll be personally attacked and called old-fashioned by some fat-cat loving troll who doesn't even live in PM.