Richmond International Airport

[I miss RVA]

27 minutes ago, blopp1234 said:

Sounds like they may be in contact with breeze about international routes……..hopefully?

We can only hope. I know off and on, RIC had (many moons ago) seasonal service to/from the Bahamas (I think? It was somewhere in the Caribbean) and some manner of "regular" (once a week? twice a week?) service to Toronto. I know - big whoop when RDU has regular service to Europe. Ugh... Still, getting SOMETHING I guess would be far better than what we have now. I just hate being in the position of "beggars can't be choosers" that we always seem to be in when it comes to things like this.

[eandslee]

That would be fantastic!  I do think they will focus on renovating the International processing part of the airport.  We’ll see what that gets us.  A sort of, “if you build it they will come” strategy. 

[I miss RVA]

8 hours ago, eandslee said:

That would be fantastic!  I do think they will focus on renovating the International processing part of the airport.  We’ll see what that gets us.  A sort of, “if you build it they will come” strategy. 

Exactly! I wholeheartedly agree, @eandslee . It's technically the same argument (or at least very similar) to the argument of building out good mass transit relative to drawing ridership from resultant development. As mentioned elsewhere on here, I've seen some good educational urban planning/urban history videos documenting how sections of many cities often developed & built up following the development/extension of mass transit -- and not the other way around. "If we build it, they will come" is actually proven - and I believe in this case -- renovating the international processing part of the airport, having it in place, operational and ready to go, will go a long way to bringing at least one airline (or more!) looking to set up international service at RIC. This is a practice - being proactive in developing infrastructures prior to and anticipation of the perceived "need" for said infrastructure -- where many other cities have succeeded spectacularly yet where RVA (city and metro and various components like the airport) have unfortunately come up short of the mark. It's a mindset that we NEED to change to keep RVA's momentum going forward. It's these "chicken and egg" scenarios where other successful cities are almost always proactive whereas RVA always tends to be overly conservative and far too hesitant. We need to be forward looking and proactive. 

Let's get the international component renovated at RIC and then push for airlines to come here. Make it available to them. Let them know we're on top of things, that we've got everything in place, ready to go. Build it ... and they will come!

Edited November 27, 2021 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

October RIC Airport statistics just came out and it appears that October was the second busiest month this year so far.  The airport saw 348,862 passengers in October, which was 18.88% more passengers than the airport saw in September (at 293,459) and an increase of 155% over October 2020 (at 136,722).  However, October 2021 saw 44, 262 less passengers than in October 2019 (at 393,194), the airport's busiest year.  Based on my amateur observations of the airport, I'd say that November will probably come in with a bit stronger numbers than October...December may come in even better still.  So, the airport appears to be back on track to recovery, although it isn't back to its 2019 numbers yet.  Oh, and as for the busiest month this year, that month was July at 355, 268 passengers.  Here is my infamously terrible passenger tracking chart:

Edited December 2, 2021 by eandslee

[ancientcarpenter]

3 hours ago, eandslee said:

October RIC Airport statistics just came out and it appears that October was the second busiest month this year so far.  The airport saw 348,862 passengers in October, which was 18.88% more passengers than the airport saw in September (at 293,459) and an increase of 155% over October 2020 (at 136,722).  However, October 2021 saw 44, 262 less passengers than in October 2019 (at 393,194), the airport's busiest year.  Based on my amateur observations of the airport, I'd say that November will probably come in with a bit stronger numbers than October...December may come in even better still.  So, the airport appears to be back on track to recovery, although it isn't back to its 2019 numbers yet.  Oh, and as for the busiest month this year, that month was July at 355, 268 passengers.  Here is my infamously terrible passenger tracking chart:

 

I can only speak for myself, but even with the pending Omicron variant I am having 6-8 family members flying into RVA for this holiday. We did nothing for 2019 and 2020. My anecdotal opinion is that we will see a solid rise for December. 

 

I also am very excited about Breeze. Just checked and some flights to Charleston, Tampa, and New Orleans are as low as $39 round trip. That is incredible and my wife and kids would take that in a heartbeat if this dang pandemic could finally be stopped in its tracks. All three of those locations are prime spots for us to visit friends and vacation. Breeze is doing this the right way and RIC is a great airport for it. Very exciting. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by ancientcarpenter

[DowntownCoruscant]

Subject to omicron proving to be delta on horse steroids, I think the RIC passenger numbers will continue to climb commensurate with broad increases in air travel. A lot of families were waiting for the 5-11 vaccine, and here we are.

We have two trips planned for 2022. For one (SF), we’re going to try to fly out of RIC but Dulles might make more sense. However, for the other (Miami area), flights to Ft. Lauderdale in particular from RIC seem dirt cheap so that’s a plus.

To an extent, I think RIC’s long-term future might be tied into public transit and perhaps a viable mixed-use development in that area of town. The airport itself looks fine, but the area isn’t tremendously inviting and I wonder if that limits repeat business.

 

[eandslee]

Yeah, funny that the Omicron is rearing its head now that things here are becoming more normalized.  Same thing happened in August when the Delta variant was announced.  We definitely saw a slow down in passenger traffic at the end of August and into September because of it.  I'm starting to believe we are getting "punked" here - seems that every time we start to normalize, we get word of a new virus variant.  I'm starting to believe someone (or some group) is doing it on purpose so that things WON'T normalize and people won't have to go back to work...and so that we are subjected to a life with constant fear, wearing masks, and injecting ourselves with something they are calling a "vaccine"...and/or so someone or some group can have control over the population.  I'm not one to dream up and believe conspiracy theories, but the timing of this is very suspect to me.  It's frustrating!  I'm tired of this crap - let's get back to normal.  I can't continue to live like this (just my opinion).

As for your two comments above - thanks for using RIC as your airport of choice when traveling!  I can understand going to Dulles for SF trip...I hope RIC is the better/cheaper option though.  It will save you a lot of the headache and time traveling up there in the traffic, paying the parking, etc.  RIC is just so much easier...even if there is a slight(ish) difference in ticket price - it may be worth it.

I would love to see the area around the airport revitalized with some new multi-family housing/businesses around the airport.  The bad side to that is the noise.  That's why it's mostly industrial out that way.  However, I think there are some areas around the airport that do not get the noise that one might expect being close to the airport.  As far as repeat business...I don't think it has much bearing on people using the airport.  Sure, it'd be nice to clean up the area around the airport a bit, but I don't think it seems dangerous...just kind of old and run-down a bit in some places.

[Icetera]

6 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Yeah, funny that the Omicron is rearing its head now that things here are becoming more normalized.  Same thing happened in August when the Delta variant was announced.

I think you said everything right there.  Its every time we get more complacent that it bites us in the arse.  Absolutely frustrating.

[I miss RVA]

56 minutes ago, Icetera said:

I think you said everything right there.  Its every time we get more complacent that it bites us in the arse.  Absolutely frustrating.

Very frustrating, but we may have to reconcile that this is going to be the new normal for the foreseeable future. Until a lot of things change, this cycle of new variants isn't going to abate any time soon.

[ancientcarpenter]

1 hour ago, Icetera said:

I think you said everything right there.  Its every time we get more complacent that it bites us in the arse.  Absolutely frustrating.

As a former conspiracy theorist, please do not doubt the ability for a conspiracy theorist to answer their own question while, in the same sentence, creating elaborate and endless cases of unexplainable theories that must be true.

 

.... while at the same time ignoring scientific facts of PhDs that have dedicated over 50+ years of their life to study. 

 

- You: Go to 4 years for bachelor, then 4-6 more years for PhD, then 2 years of mentorship, and dedicate the next 20-40 years of intense scrutiny, offense, defense, and proof to have a valid scientifically backed drug that could save millions of lives.

- Guy on internet: No, that's all bullsh**

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by ancientcarpenter

[I miss RVA]

9 minutes ago, ancientcarpenter said:

As a former conspiracy theorist, please do not doubt the ability for a conspiracy theorist to answer their own question while, in the same sentence, creating elaborate and endless cases of unexplainable theories that must be true.

 

.... while at the same time ignoring scientific facts of PhDs that have dedicated over 50+ years of their life to study. 

 

- You: Go to 4 years for bachelor, then 4-6 more years for PhD, then 2 years of mentorship, and dedicate the next 20-40 years of intense scrutiny, offense, defense, and proof to have a valid scientifically backed drug that could save millions of lives.

- Guy on internet: No, that's all bullsh**

 

Well said! 

[DowntownCoruscant]

8 hours ago, eandslee said:

As for your two comments above - thanks for using RIC as your airport of choice when traveling!  I can understand going to Dulles for SF trip...I hope RIC is the better/cheaper option though.  It will save you a lot of the headache and time traveling up there in the traffic, paying the parking, etc.  RIC is just so much easier...even if there is a slight(ish) difference in ticket price - it may be worth it.

 

Well, it’ll always be my first choice. I grew up here and am old enough to remember it as a comparatively rinky dink place called Byrd Airport. Took my first flight from there (on Eastern, got to visit the cockpit and got souvenir wings), flew the OG Piedmont from there, watched NFL football on those quarter-fed black and white TVs attached to the lounge chairs in the lobby while you waiting for relatives to land, saw the striking Eastern employees right before that airline folded, etc. Lots of formative memories. 

As for Dulles, when I went to college and worked in DC, I hated that place. Flew into there from New Orleans one Sunday night and paid the Washington Flyer over $50 in late 90s bucks to get back to DC. Much preferred National. But as a married guy, with two kids, one of whom is still quite young, direct flights are key, especially cross-country, and the cheaper the better. And I’m lucky enough that my brother in law and his family live in Reston. So we normally park there and get a ride to Dulles. Convenient.

But I’m hopefully RIC will get a wider variety of cheaper and longer direct flights, because I really do want to give it my business.

[I miss RVA]

10 minutes ago, DowntownCoruscant said:

I grew up here and am old enough to remember it as a comparatively rinky dink place called Byrd Airport.

Took my first flight from there (on Eastern, got to visit the cockpit and got souvenir wings), flew the OG Piedmont from there

But I’m hopefully RIC will get a wider variety of cheaper and longer direct flights, because I really do want to give it my business.

1.) Same here. I recall when I was in elementary school, we took more than a few field trips to the airport mainly to visit the weather station. I loved science class for exactly those reasons!

2.) Same here - for both Eastern and Piedmont. I also got a pair of souvenir wings. 

3.) AMEN!! Let's stair step a wider variety of cheaper/longer direct flights into a focus city setup into landing a full-on hub.

[benstyree]

It sounds like Breeze is adding a 4th city from RIC starting in February - West Palm Beach.

[wrldcoupe4]

Questions for the group - it seems like Breeze will add international destinations. Why is Norfolk better for this than Richmond or vice versa? Could they both receive international destinations? How would Breeze determine something like this?

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Questions for the group - it seems like Breeze will add international destinations. Why is Norfolk better for this than Richmond or vice versa? Could they both receive international destinations? How would Breeze determine something like this?

Conventional wisdom would pick ORF over RIC based on:

1.) market size -1.7M metro compared vs 1.35M metro - advantage ORF

2.) huge military presence in Hampton Roads - advantage ORF

3.) ORF facilities - does it have the international processing/customs portion of the airport set up and ready to go? RIC needs to renovate and make that component operational. - advantage ORF

4.) ORF is already a focus-city airport. That right there puts it into the category of advantage ORF.

COULD Breeze add both as destinations? Yes - anything is possible. But if they add ORF, I don't see RIC getting added, at least for a while, and certainly not at the same time. And I think a lot of very 'basic' parameters would point (as it usually does) to ORF getting it first. I don't think it's a slam dunk, though - because of the strength of the RVA business market. But that requires a more business-friendly, post-pandemic playing field - and COVID is making it abundantly clear that it's not done mucking up the works just yet.

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by I miss RVA

[Merrittk92]

On the “up” side, this time next year Breeze should have at least 17/18 of their A220-300’s. Those planes have great range soooo I’m pretty optimistic that RIC will see some west coast cities added to Breeze’s schedule fairly soon. 

[BFG]

2 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Conventional wisdom would pick ORF to RIC based on:

2.) huge military presence in Hampton Roads - advantage ORF

3.) ORF facilities - does it have the international processing/customs portion of the airport set up and ready to go? RIC needs to renovate and make that component operational. - advantage ORF

I don't know the setup at ORF, but I'm friends with a military family that transferred to Italy from Norfolk, albeit not on a commercial flight. Even though the military probably technically handled everything, I imagine Norfolk has some sort of Customs station in place for those flights.

[eandslee]

When I left for my deployment to the Middle East, I left from Norfolk, but it was not from ORF…it was from the naval base there (with a landing strip).  I’ve heard that more military going on deployment depart the US from Norfolk than any other location.  Again, this doesn’t mean that ORF has this robust capability.

Glad to hear of the new destination (PBI) on Breeze from RIC, but I was hoping for either more destinations and/or direct flights to the west coast. Granted, Breeze only started receiving A-220 deliveries in October (at a rate of 1 per month), but It would be nice to see RIC land one of the first long haul routes in Breeze.  All of this might be the reason for RIC’s push to renovate its International flight area.  Perhaps we really do have international flights on Breeze in our future, but I also know that ORF does too, because Neelman mentioned it in an article I read recently about International flights from the States on Breeze. 

[I miss RVA]

On 12/6/2021 at 3:32 PM, eandslee said:

Glad to hear of the new destination (PBI) on Breeze from RIC, but I was hoping for either more destinations and/or direct flights to the west coast. Granted, Breeze only started receiving A-220 deliveries in October (at a rate of 1 per month), but It would be nice to see RIC land one of the first long haul routes in Breeze.  All of this might be the reason for RIC’s push to renovate its International flight area.  

My only corollary to what you said here is that RIC landing a long-haul route with Breeze (particularly something overseas) absolutely IS the reason (one of maybe a thousand reasons!!) for RIC to renovate its international flight area. They should get that up and operational  ASAP just on GP - for once in their bloody lives, be proactive and not reactive (or worse - standing around dumbfounded when RIC gets passed over -- YET AGAIN -- for another airport (such as ORF) that was proactive and ready to roll.)

Edited December 8, 2021 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

Not exactly sure what is being planned, but would be a great location for a state of the art cargo facility!

https://richmondbizsense.com/2021/12/09/airport-commission-plans-to-buy-161-acres-for-ric-expansion/

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, eandslee said:

Not exactly sure what is being planned, but would be a great location for a state of the art cargo facility!

https://richmondbizsense.com/2021/12/09/airport-commission-plans-to-buy-161-acres-for-ric-expansion/

Aside from money, what would it take for the airport to begin working on building out parallel runways? Is all the necessary land already in-house?  I wish to goodness the airport would start swinging for the fences instead of constantly trying to lay down bunt singles.

[eandslee]

3 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Aside from money, what would it take for the airport to begin working on building out parallel runways? Is all the necessary land already in-house?  I wish to goodness the airport would start swinging for the fences instead of constantly trying to lay down bunt singles.

Actually, I’ve been seeing some movement in the right direction on this. I’ve seen them move some facilities around on the airport grounds to accommodate a parallel runway; however there is a lot more movement to go to clear the way (most notable is the Army Guard area on the east side of the airport property).  
 

The other issue is that the airport commission has to see the need to pour millions of dollars into building and certifying a new runway.  Not sure there is enough demand signal yet to do so. The current runways are nowhere near capacity, so rushing into building a parallel runway right now is probably not on the forefront, but it’s probably something they are taking into consideration given the moves I’ve seen lately.  
 

To me, it appears that they are making these facility moves to make way for a new runway should the demand signal for it occur. I know they have plans to move the current cargo area to the other side of the airport (this could make room for more passenger concourses/another terminal as outlined in their master plan). There are also a few other small facility moves in the works too.  If the airport buys the 161 acres on the east side, it could be for a new cargo area…maybe a new home for the Army National Guard…who knows, but I do think that the airport is slowly making moves toward a new parallel runway…when the airport is ready to act on building one based on demand signal.  Timeline?  Not sure, but maybe (if we get lucky) within the next 10 years.  Just my 2 cents. 

[DowntownCoruscant]

Wouldn’t RIC need federal approval to build another runway? Is that the certification you mention?

[I miss RVA]

14 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Actually, I’ve been seeing some movement in the right direction on this. I’ve seen them move some facilities around on the airport grounds to accommodate a parallel runway; however there is a lot more movement to go to clear the way (most notable is the Army Guard area on the east side of the airport property).  
 

The other issue is that the airport commission has to see the need to pour millions of dollars into building and certifying a new runway.  Not sure there is enough demand signal yet to do so. The current runways are nowhere near capacity, so rushing into building a parallel runway right now is probably not on the forefront, but it’s probably something they are taking into consideration given the moves I’ve seen lately.  
 

To me, it appears that they are making these facility moves to make way for a new runway should the demand signal for it occur. I know they have plans to move the current cargo area to the other side of the airport (this could make room for more passenger concourses/another terminal as outlined in their master plan). There are also a few other small facility moves in the works too.  If the airport buys the 161 acres on the east side, it could be for a new cargo area…maybe a new home for the Army National Guard…who knows, but I do think that the airport is slowly making moves toward a new parallel runway…when the airport is ready to act on building one based on demand signal.  Timeline?  Not sure, but maybe (if we get lucky) within the next 10 years.  Just my 2 cents. 

Yes - you know I have to come after this with some thoughts:

1.) CRAC has to see the need/not enough demand: this is the crux of my whole argument about what separates other cities (and by extension the airports) from RVA and where RVA lags SO badly behind other up-and-coming metros. Those places that want it bad enough don't mind taking risks to chase down what they want. They don't wait for the need - they go out and create the need. They create the demand. They make it happen. Sure, CLT got a huge break when Piedmont went there in the '70s - but they (the airport folks) had to have done SOMETHING right in order to draw the airline to them. RDU - another forward-thinking airport that's gone out and grabbed demand. And even though now, CLT could be "excused" for having more than enough demand to justify the cost of their next bold move -- building TWO MORE parallel runways -- I seem to recall reading somewhere that this has been in the works for a while, that this was part of the grand plan. And the purpose of building out two more parallels? TO INCREASE CAPACITY AND BRING IN MORE DEMAND.

Just like with cities developing on the heels of expanding public/mass transit a century ago, it works in that order. Build it, they will come. Create the demand, and the demand will come. Not the other way around. 

An airport - or a city - can sit back and wait and see IF things happen. OR - they can go out and MAKE things happen. We've discussed this ad nauseam on here before -- RVA is SO risk averse and SO unwilling to take a shot at something - that they wait and wait and wait for things that other cities are more than happy to go out and grab  for themselves while RVA continues to wait.

What have we done to even get a focus-city designation at RIC? How hard are we pushing not just with the airport, but the boosterism of the city and the metro? How long do we sit back and wait for organic growth to eventually "justify" making a move on something?  And to say it's not really in RIC's (or CRAC's) hands -- that everything is dependent upon the airlines - tell that to other airports and cities that have had little to no trouble thinking outside the box and creating additional demand, drumming up business, getting more and better service, marketing the city, the metro, the region, the airport, going out and chasing down what they want.  We're sitting and waiting. And if it doesn't come, then it means we don't want it badly enough. Because if we did, we'd push - and we'd push - and we'd push - just like other cities have done, and we'd make something happen.

That's the bottom line. We (collectively as a city/region - not those of us individually in our little community here) - we just don't want it. That's the mindset. That's ALWAYS been the mindset. And I know I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know, chapter and verse.

2.) when the airport is ready to act/demand signal:  based on the above points -- and you heard it here first -- I'm 59 and I likely won't see this happen in my lifetime. Neither will you (unless your a good 30 or so years younger than me, and I believe we're somewhat close in age). Maybe our kids/grandkids will. But we won't. Let's be realistic about this, yeah?

"He who hesitates is lost" -- and -- "snooze, you lose" ...  perfect descriptions for RIC and the CRAC over the decades.