Richmond International Airport

[blopp1234]

I will look for the Austin chart but if I remember correctly, RIC is top 5 in unserved markets from both Phoenix and Austin and consistently ranks in the top 10 for Salt Lake City. 
 

As far as service to Phoenix, I think it would be different if it was Newport News, but 90 miles is more than enough distance, especially if both markets have solid demand. There are numerous examples that prove this, such as Providence and Hartford, Cincinnati and Indianapolis and  Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Richmond and Norfolk really don’t overlap as much since they are similar sizes and I don’t know anyone who would brave the HRBT for a direct flight to Phoenix, instead of having an hour layover in a place like Charlotte, Chicago or Atlanta. Breeze already operates numerous routes to both cities such as New Orleans, Las Vegas, Palm Beach, Hartford and Providence.

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, blopp1234 said:

I will look for the Austin chart but if I remember correctly, RIC is top 5 in unserved markets from both Phoenix and Austin and consistently ranks in the top 10 for Salt Lake City. 
 

As far as service to Phoenix, I think it would be different if it was Newport News, but 90 miles is more than enough distance, especially if both markets have solid demand. There are numerous examples that prove this, such as Providence and Hartford, Cincinnati and Indianapolis and  Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Richmond and Norfolk really don’t overlap as much since they are similar sizes and I don’t know anyone who would brave the HRBT for a direct flight to Phoenix, instead of having an hour layover in a place like Charlotte, Chicago or Atlanta. Breeze already operates numerous routes to both cities such as New Orleans, Las Vegas, Palm Beach, Hartford and Providence.

Hey, I'm not arguing the point that we CAN'T get both markets with direct flights to PHX. I'm just saying I'm not convinced Breeze WILL do it. I hope it will happen. But paraphrasing @wrldcoupe4- what do I know? I'm just a layman. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Niccckk]

Man, Southwest has really reduced frequencies at RIC. During 2021 Southwest was doing 4 daily Atlanta flights, 2 daily MDW flights, and one-two daily Denver flights, and now I'm only seeing 2 Daily Atlanta and one daily MDW... and no Denver flights for now. I'm not entirely sure what is causing these reduced frequencies,  anyone have ideas?

[eandslee]

23 minutes ago, Niccckk said:

Man, Southwest has really reduced frequencies at RIC. During 2021 Southwest was doing 4 daily Atlanta flights, 2 daily MDW flights, and one-two daily Denver flights, and now I'm only seeing 2 Daily Atlanta and one daily MDW... and no Denver flights for now. I'm not entirely sure what is causing these reduced frequencies,  anyone have ideas?

I’ve heard that it’s all due to staffing and equipment shortages, but not sure that is entirely the case for every scenario. Seems the airlines are using this excuse for everything these days, but this one “shoe” can’t possibly fit every foot.  Southwest has only been like warm in RIC since it came here.   It’s been disappointing.  Definitely,  no Southwest effect here. 

[Niccckk]

27 minutes ago, eandslee said:

I’ve heard that it’s all due to staffing and equipment shortages, but not sure that is entirely the case for every scenario. Seems the airlines are using this excuse for everything these days, but this one “shoe” can’t possibly fit every foot.  Southwest has only been like warm in RIC since it came here.   It’s been disappointing.  Definitely,  no Southwest effect here. 

Yeah. Unfortunately some of it is due to DCA and ORF being bigger Southwest bases than Richmond. Prices outta here have also been a lot more expensive with Southwest than in DCA. Last year, we actually drove up to DCA instead of flying out of RIC due to the price difference of the tickets out of here, it is unfortunate.

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, Niccckk said:

Prices outta here have also been a lot more expensive with Southwest than in DCA. Last year, we actually drove up to DCA instead of flying out of RIC due to the price difference of the tickets out of here.

This has been an ongoing problem across the board for decades. I've never understood exactly why this is (aside from supply/demand being a primary economic driver) - I'm just not sure how/why it can be SO damn much more expensive to fly on the very same airline to the very same destination out of RIC than it is out of DCA. This has gotten "better" in recent years, though I'm not sure now how much damage the pandemic has done to leveling the playing field.

Not sure exactly WHAT RIC can do to legitimately level this playing field - but it needs to happen.

[Downtowner]

16 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

This has been an ongoing problem across the board for decades. I've never understood exactly why this is (aside from supply/demand being a primary economic driver) - I'm just not sure how/why it can be SO damn much more expensive to fly on the very same airline to the very same destination out of RIC than it is out of DCA. This has gotten "better" in recent years, though I'm not sure now how much damage the pandemic has done to leveling the playing field.

Not sure exactly WHAT RIC can do to legitimately level this playing field - but it needs to happen.

i think the pandemic has done damage to a ton of industries even the military is so much smaller than it once was. The medical industry nurses and the education sector teachers. We are really losing a lot all across the boards. It’s sad. 

[blopp1234]

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-route-cuts-nyc-florida/amp/

Sad News as JetBlue has decided to permanently cancel the RIC to LAX route for the time being. This likely comes as they try to rethink their route network for a post covid world, but it still sucks that we will have to wait even longer for direct LAX flights. 
 

This might be temporary though as the article mentions that “According to JetBlue, these cuts will be balanced by future growth that will be announced in the coming weeks and months.”

 

On a brighter note, I did find the numbers showing RICs PDEW to Austin for Q4 of 2021. 66 PDEW is extremely high for unserved routes out of Austin. In fact, RIC has the second highest PDEW of any unserved route out of Austin, only behind Cleveland/Akron/Canton.

Here are the Q4 2021 PDEW’s of AUS-RIC/ORF:
AUS-RIC- 66
AUS-ORF/PHF - 53

Edited August 15, 2022 by blopp1234

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-route-cuts-nyc-florida/amp/

Sad News as JetBlue has decided to permanently cancel the RIC to LAX route for the time being. This likely comes as they try to rethink their route network for a post covid world, but it still sucks that we will have to wait even longer for direct LAX flights. 
 

This might be temporary though as the article mentions that “According to JetBlue, these cuts will be balanced by future growth that will be announced in the coming weeks and months.”

 

On a brighter note, I did find the numbers showing RICs PDEW to Austin for Q4 of 2021. 66 PDEW is extremely high for unserved routes out of Austin. In fact, RIC has the second highest PDEW of any unserved route out of Austin, only behind Cleveland/Akron/Canton.

Here are the Q4 2021 PDEW’s of AUS-RIC/ORF:
AUS-RIC- 66
AUS-ORF/PHF - 53

VERY sad news regarding the RIC-LAX route. Hopefully it will come back down the road (perhaps at some point in 2023?)  HOWEVER -- VERY encouraging for a direct to/from Austin. Wow - if we're behind only Cleveland, I would hope that with such a significant lead over the ORF/PHF combo, that if a new Virginia route to/from Austin is added, it will be RIC, hands down.

Out of curiosity, what's Cleveland's PDEW?

[blopp1234]

In the 90s I believe, however that also includes both CLE and CAK. I’d look for allegiant or maybe even AA to start up that route within the next few years when staffing issues get figured out. I highly doubt the LAX route stays vacant for long as JetBlue seems to be trying to sort out equipment shortages staffing shortages and a mega merger with Spirit, so timing seems to be more of an issue than overall demand.

[eandslee]

Just caught wind that Breeze Airways will be increasing service starting 1 Nov between:

RIC-LAS - from 2x to 4x a week

RIC-TPA - from 5x to 6x a week (select weeks will be 7x a week)

This is good news for the airport and those it serves!

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/220817-mxnw22

Edited August 18, 2022 by eandslee

[wrldcoupe4]

No cuts, that’s good!

[Niccckk]

16 minutes ago, eandslee said:

RIC-LAS - from 2x to 4x a week

RIC-TPA - from 5x to 6x a week (select weeks will be 7x a week)

This is huge considering other airports... even ahem.. Norfolk, had fewer frequency increases than us with Breeze (they even decreased a few frequencies). I bet jetBlue is pretty upset that Breeze took over their LAS flight, as it seems to be pretty successful! Southwest and JetBlue better watch out at RIC, since Breeze just seems to be slowly entering their markets on where they previously were. Southwest is going to really regret pulling out of MCO and TPA, 

[eandslee]

18 minutes ago, Niccckk said:

This is huge considering other airports... even ahem.. Norfolk, had fewer frequency increases than us with Breeze (they even decreased a few frequencies). I bet jetBlue is pretty upset that Breeze took over their LAS flight, as it seems to be pretty successful! Southwest and JetBlue better watch out at RIC, since Breeze just seems to be slowly entering their markets on where they previously were. Southwest is going to really regret pulling out of MCO and TPA, 

Additionally, the ORF-LAX route got cancelled altogether.  RIC is lucky to still have nonstop flights to LAS and SFO. JetBlue just officially cancelled the RIC-LAX route…I wonder if Breeze will end up picking up that route? Outside of the DC airports, there’s no nonstop service to LAX from Virginia. Huge opportunity there and with its central location in Virginia, I see RIC as best positioned to get that route. I know that ORF is a base for Breeze, but I never really understood that move with RIC’s location being more accessible to more people (with more reach).  Outside of the DC airports, my opinion is that RIC should be THE major airport in Virginia. It technically is the #3 airport in Virginia, but it should far exceed that of ORF.  Instead, these two airports are always neck and neck.  RIC needs to break away somehow.  Are we starting to see it now?  Not so sure. 

[blopp1234]

Awesome news about the increased frequencies. Good to see LAS is doing well and Tampa seems to be a cash cow for Breeze, especially since no other carrier offers daily, year round service on that route for some reason. 
 

I am also alittle confused about the move to make ORF the operating base for Breeze over RIC. Seems like they wanted to tap into the military demand and midwesterners going to VA Beach for vacation. The main problem with that is ORF only has one runway. ORF doesn’t have as much current capacity, as well as room for capacity expansion as RIC does, so from the stance of future service, it does seem alittle baffling.

[Shakman]

4 minutes ago, blopp1234 said:

Awesome news about the increased frequencies. Good to see LAS is doing well and Tampa seems to be a cash cow for Breeze, especially since no other carrier offers daily, year round service on that route for some reason. 
 

I am also alittle confused about the move to make ORF the operating base for Breeze over RIC. Seems like they wanted to tap into the military demand and midwesterners going to VA Beach for vacation. The main problem with that is ORF only has one runway. ORF doesn’t have as much current capacity, as well as room for capacity expansion as RIC does, so from the stance of future service, it does seem alittle baffling.

Does ORF have lower fees for airlines than RIC?

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, eandslee said:

Additionally, the ORF-LAX route got cancelled altogether.  RIC is lucky to still have nonstop flights to LAS and SFO. JetBlue just officially cancelled the RIC-LAX route…I wonder if Breeze will end up picking up that route? Outside of the DC airports, there’s no nonstop service to LAX from Virginia. Huge opportunity there and with its central location in Virginia, I see RIC as best positioned to get that route. I know that ORF is a base for Breeze, but I never really understood that move with RIC’s location being more accessible to more people (with more reach).  Outside of the DC airports, my opinion is that RIC should be THE major airport in Virginia. It technically is the #3 airport in Virginia, but it should far exceed that of ORF.  Instead, these two airports are always neck and neck.  RIC needs to break away somehow.  Are we starting to see it now?  Not so sure. 

Wait, what?? So ALL Virginia to LAX service has been cancelled? Wasn't there lots of hoopla in OUR media about ORF-LAX? Now, you said JetBlue just officially cancelled it - meaning, it was extremely recent? 

VERY glad to see the service INCREASES (RIC-LAS, RIC-TPA) you outlined above. Here's hoping that is a trend starting. Who knows - maybe Breeze WILL pick up the LAX route - and BASE IT OUT OF RIC!

To your final point - we really DO need to break away from ORF. The two airports have been, generally speaking, neck-and-neck for DECADES - often with ORF having a slight lead (presumably because of the impact of the military in Hampton Roads). 

To @blopp1234's point - if ORF has but one runway and NO ROOM for capacity expansion (and as I recall it is EXTREMELY hemmed in) one would think that RIC's tremendous potential for capacity expansion (and the fact that we have a fully expanded airport master plan IN HOUSE as we speak - with parallel runways, a second terminal, more concourses/gates, etc.) could/would/should be something the CRAC, the airport, the city, the state, SOMEONE waves in front of the airlines' faces and drives home the point - "WE CAN EXPAND TO ACCOMODATE YOU!!! COME TO US!!!!"  That's an aggressive marketing tactic that should be employed, IMNSHO.

[blopp1234]

This post doesn’t have as much to do with the increased frequencies, but after doing alittle digging, I was able to find some passenger statistics showing the most popular international destinations in 2019, as well as the number of yearly flyers to those destinations from RIC.

 I this should give an idea as to which locations could be added by Breeze or another airline for future international flights, even if the data is alittle old. 
 

https://hanovercounty.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=8&clip_id=480&meta_id=45764

 

I was also able to find this on RIC’s application for increased frequency on the SFO route, which shows the 10 highest PDEW destinations with less than 4 weekly flights from RIC. Granted LAS and SFO are now served by Breeze but the others are still unserved.

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by blopp1234

[I miss RVA]

5 hours ago, Shakman said:

Does ORF have lower fees for airlines than RIC?

My guess is a non-committal "probably".  That's for certain long been the case with the DC area airports, including BWI.

Being a layman, I have no idea what drives the difference in fees for the airlines. WHY have they been tradtionally SO MUCH higher at RIC over the decades than at the three DC airports and even ORF? Is it a supply/demand issue? I've not ever understood how that whole fee differential works.

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

This post doesn’t have as much to do with the increased frequencies, but after doing alittle digging, I was able to find some passenger statistics showing the most popular international destinations in 2019, as well as the number of yearly flyers to those destinations from RIC.

 I this should give an idea as to which locations could be added by Breeze or another airline for future international flights, even if the data is alittle old. 
 

https://hanovercounty.granicus.com/MetaViewer.php?view_id=8&clip_id=480&meta_id=45764

 

I was also able to find this on RIC’s application for increased frequency on the SFO route, which shows the 10 highest PDEW destinations with less than 4 weekly flights from RIC. Granted LAS and SFO are now served by Breeze but the others are still unserved.

 

This is outstanding information!! Now - how does all of this data get converted into increased direct service to these markets?

[blopp1234]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

This is outstanding information!! Now - how does all of this data get converted into increased direct service to these markets?

My guess is it depends on the carrier for each route. 
 

Breeze and Allegiant are usually the most likely to take bets on routes like these, where PDEW is less than 100, and start them as 2x,3x or 4x flights per week and build from there. Southwest theoretically could also get in the game, as many of their major operating bases are on this list (Nashville, Austin, San Antonio, St Louis), but they have some unknown grudge against RIC for some reason that we may never know.

Guess only time can tell.

[eandslee]

4 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Wait, what?? So ALL Virginia to LAX service has been cancelled? Wasn't there lots of hoopla in OUR media about ORF-LAX? Now, you said JetBlue just officially cancelled it - meaning, it was extremely recent? 

JetBlue used to have nonstop service between RIC and LAX.  That service ended and is now officially cancelled as of just a week or two when JetBlue came out with an official announcement.  It was announced earlier this year that ORF would get nonstop service on Breeze Airways to LAX.  Breeze has now backed off of that announcement and is no longer being considered.  So, that means that, outside of the DC airports (IAD and DCA), there is no nonstop service to LAX, when there used be one (at RIC), and almost two (one out of RIC and one out of ORF).  Just wanted to clarify.

[I miss RVA]

17 minutes ago, blopp1234 said:

My guess is it depends on the carrier for each route. 
 

Breeze and Allegiant are usually the most likely to take bets on routes like these, where PDEW is less than 100, and start them as 2x,3x or 4x flights per week and build from there. Southwest theoretically could also get in the game, as many of their major operating bases are on this list (Nashville, Austin, San Antonio, St Louis), but they have some unknown grudge against RIC for some reason that we may never know.

Guess only time can tell.

They being Southwest (who apparently has some problem with operating out of RIC) ?

Is it a size thing? They only want to operate out of bigger airports or bigger markets? Wonder what the deal could be? And how in the hell is RIC supposed to become a bigger airport without sufficient service to draw sufficient numbers of passengers?

[eandslee]

34 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

They being Southwest (who apparently has some problem with operating out of RIC) ?

Is it a size thing? They only want to operate out of bigger airports or bigger markets? Wonder what the deal could be? And how in the hell is RIC supposed to become a bigger airport without sufficient service to draw sufficient numbers of passengers?

Size of the airport has nothing to do with it.  Might have something more to do with the Southwest manager or Southwest lead guy at RIC or the airport has to show promise and be a part of Southwest's future plans.  Perhaps RIC is not on Southwest's radar for growth for one reason or another.

Edited August 18, 2022 by eandslee

[blopp1234]

@eandsleehit the nail on the head. Southwest has been Luke warm towards RIC, even before their equipment and staffing shortages. They have multiple routes that they could run daily out of RIC, such as to DAL, AUS and BNA, however, they have shown little interest in expanding for whatever reason and seem content routing traffic through Atlanta and Chicago Midway.

I wouldn’t look for any of the big 4 airlines (American, Delta, United and Southwest) to add flights to RIC anytime soon outside of to their hubs (which is all they seem to be adding now a days) and JetBlue probably won’t add anything major until after they finish their buyout of spirit, so look for Breeze or Allegiant to be the ones to step up and add routes to RIC. Who knows though, maybe one of the big 4 will surprise us and a flight or two.