Richmond International Airport

[eandslee]

4 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Fair point. However, what would it take for RIC to at least catch up in terms of destinations and make up that 5-market gap between the two airports?

Three words: FILL EVERY FLIGHT!

The demand signal from perpetual full flights will only make RIC more attractive to Breeze (and other airlines).

[eandslee]

Look who just became a base city for Avelo (ugh!).  RIC passed up again:

 

[Downtowner]

15 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Look who just became a base city for Avelo (ugh!).  RIC passed up again:

 

man I have to say while we are in a great location right in the center of so many places it also really sucks being anywhere within 2-3 hours from Raleigh/dc/baltimore/Hampton roads. It really really sucks for us in that regard but we really need to step the heck up. 

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, eandslee said:

Look who just became a base city for Avelo (ugh!).  RIC passed up again:

 

Absolutely unreal.

I have no words, quite frankly. Except to say - WTF do we have to do to land one of these damn focus city/bases of operation?  JESUS this is infuriating.

Edited November 11, 2022 by I miss RVA

[blopp1234]

Richmond’s location is both a curse and a blessing.

 

It sucks for RIC because a lot of airlines don’t want operations too close to each other and with 3 major airlines having bases in DC or Baltimore, it is unlikely that RIC could ever become a focus city for a Delta, United, American or Southwest. I wouldn’t rule out Avelo possibly coming here in the future, even with their Raleigh and Newport News locations as they and Breeze have different strategies than the major airlines. Breeze and Avelo only fly point to point routes with no connections so they only look for demand between one airport and another. This is good for RIC as RIC isn’t served to 2 of Avelos Florida airports (Fort Myers and Palm Beach) so I could see us eventually getting service in a few years if Avelo keeps growing. 

 

While Richmond’s location does make it harder to attract flights, it benefits us in the passenger rail sector as if we were located where Salt Lake City was, we wouldn’t have anywhere near the level of passenger rail service that we currently have and will have in the future.

https://flyrichmond.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/RIC-SEP22-Activity-Report.pdf

The passenger statistics for September have been released and RIC had about 346,000 passengers in September, less than 2,000 passengers away from September 2019.  Awesome news that we have almost fully recovered from the pandemic travel drop and hopefully passenger numbers continue to keep rising. I know the pilot shortage is still a thing so airlines may be alittle more skeptical about adding routes than they would be with a healthy labor market.
 

 

[I miss RVA]

54 minutes ago, blopp1234 said:

Richmond’s location is both a curse and a blessing.

 

It sucks for RIC because a lot of airlines don’t want operations too close to each other and with 3 major airlines having bases in DC or Baltimore, it is unlikely that RIC could ever become a focus city for a Delta, United, American or Southwest. I wouldn’t rule out Avelo possibly coming here in the future, even with their Raleigh and Newport News locations as they and Breeze have different strategies than the major airlines. Breeze and Avelo only fly point to point routes with no connections so they only look for demand between one airport and another. This is good for RIC as RIC isn’t served to 2 of Avelos Florida airports (Fort Myers and Palm Beach) so I could see us eventually getting service in a few years if Avelo keeps growing. 

 

While Richmond’s location does make it harder to attract flights, it benefits us in the passenger rail sector as if we were located where Salt Lake City was, we wouldn’t have anywhere near the level of passenger rail service that we currently have and will have in the future.

https://flyrichmond.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/RIC-SEP22-Activity-Report.pdf

The passenger statistics for September have been released and RIC had about 346,000 passengers in September, less than 2,000 passengers away from September 2019.  Awesome news that we have almost fully recovered from the pandemic travel drop and hopefully passenger numbers continue to keep rising. I know the pilot shortage is still a thing so airlines may be alittle more skeptical about adding routes than they would be with a healthy labor market.
 

 

While no doubt location plays an (unfortunately) HUGE part in RIC being bypassed - I can't help but believe that the powers that be at RIC/CRAC could be doing more and that location COULD be overcome. RDU landing Avelo as a focus city is a case of "the rich getting richer" -- and adds insult to injury. They're already doing business at about a 14M passengers per year clip - while we have yet to crack 5M. And while it's nice that we're getting back to pre-pandemic levels, I'm having a VERY difficult time celebrating totals that still leave us as little more than a second-or-third-tier regional airport. Get our annual passenger totals in to double digits (10M-plus) and then I'll dance.

Why? Because just like our slow-but-steady (tortoise-paced) city and metro and regional population growth -- I view it as SETTLING when we could and SHOULD be doing a LOT better. (Where have you heard this preached before?)

It is absolutely obscene how underserved RIC is. And it needs to change.

Edited November 11, 2022 by I miss RVA

[blopp1234]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

While no doubt location plays an (unfortunately) HUGE part in RIC being bypassed - I can't help but believe that the powers that be at RIC/CRAC could be doing more and that location COULD be overcome. RDU landing Avelo as a focus city is a case of "the rich getting richer" -- and adds insult to injury. They're already doing business at about a 14M passengers per year clip - while we have yet to crack 5M. And while it's nice that we're getting back to pre-pandemic levels, I'm having a VERY difficult time celebrating totals that still leave us as little more than a second-or-third-tier regional airport. Get our annual passenger totals in to double digits (10M-plus) and then I'll dance.

Why? Because just like our slow-but-steady (tortoise-paced) city and metro and regional population growth -- I view it as SETTLING when we could and SHOULD be doing a LOT better. (Where have you heard this preached before?)

It is absolutely obscene how underserved RIC is. And it needs to change.

Do remember that while not a focus city, Breeze offers just as many routes out of RIC as Avelo will out of RDU. And I personally would rather have flights to San Francisco, Las Vegas, Phoenix and New Orleans over flights to Florida. I also would highly doubt Avelo has much success on the routes to Orlando, Tampa and Fort Lauderdale as they are going up against atleast 3 other airlines on each route, such as American, Delta, Southwest, JetBlue, Spirit and Frontier, all of which won’t just roll over and let Avelo have more success than them on these routes. My guess is since hurricane Ian hit Fort Myers hard(which was going to be an Avelo base, they have an extra aircraft sitting around that they don’t want going to waste. 
 

Id also not call RIC a regional airport anymore. We’ve seen growth in flights to lots of areas in the country that regional airports would never have. We are matching cities with similar populations to us in passenger numbers (ie, Norfolk, Memphis, Louisville, OKC) none of which I would call regional airports.

 

As far as future growth, we all just need to make sure we fly out of RIC every time we fly. Airlines tend to respond to demand and only demand so by flying more often, they are likely to respond. While I don’t see United or Delta adding anything any time soon, American could add flights to Phoenix to compete with Breeze or to Austin, which is a focus city for them. Southwest would be another airline with tremendous growth potential out of RIC, and while they’ve had trouble in the past here with not adding service, they apparently have resolved their plane shortage and are looking to start adding more point to point routes, so I would think that routes to Austin, Orlando, Tampa, Dallas Love, St Louis or San Antonio would be possible adds with 3-4 flights per week (similar to what Breeze offers to their destinations). Breeze could add a pleathers of cities to their network, ranging from LA, Columbus, West Palm, Savannah, Cincinnati or even Louisville as all destinations have over 20 passengers per day each way and Breeze tends to fly lower frequencies, making smaller yielding routes possible.

 

Guess we will have to see for the future but with my few trips to the airport to pick family up in the past few weeks, it has seemed very busy every time I’ve gone, which is a good sign. Hopefully we start seeing more and more growth in the very near future.

[I miss RVA]

25 minutes ago, blopp1234 said:

Do remember that while not a focus city, Breeze offers just as many routes out of RIC as Avelo will out of RDU. And I personally would rather have flights to San Francisco, Las Vegas, Phoenix and New Orleans over flights to Florida. I also would highly doubt Avelo has much success on the routes to Orlando, Tampa and Fort Lauderdale as they are going up against atleast 3 other airlines on each route, such as American, Delta, Southwest, JetBlue, Spirit and Frontier, all of which won’t just roll over and let Avelo have more success than them on these routes. My guess is since hurricane Ian hit Fort Myers hard(which was going to be an Avelo base, they have an extra aircraft sitting around that they don’t want going to waste. 
 

Id also not call RIC a regional airport anymore. We’ve seen growth in flights to lots of areas in the country that regional airports would never have. We are matching cities with similar populations to us in passenger numbers (ie, Norfolk, Memphis, Louisville, OKC) none of which I would call regional airports.

 

As far as future growth, we all just need to make sure we fly out of RIC every time we fly. Airlines tend to respond to demand and only demand so by flying more often, they are likely to respond. While I don’t see United or Delta adding anything any time soon, American could add flights to Phoenix to compete with Breeze or to Austin, which is a focus city for them. Southwest would be another airline with tremendous growth potential out of RIC, and while they’ve had trouble in the past here with not adding service, they apparently have resolved their plane shortage and are looking to start adding more point to point routes, so I would think that routes to Austin, Orlando, Tampa, Dallas Love, St Louis or San Antonio would be possible adds with 3-4 flights per week (similar to what Breeze offers to their destinations). Breeze could add a pleathers of cities to their network, ranging from LA, Columbus, West Palm, Savannah, Cincinnati or even Louisville as all destinations have over 20 passengers per day each way and Breeze tends to fly lower frequencies, making smaller yielding routes possible.

 

Guess we will have to see for the future but with my few trips to the airport to pick family up in the past few weeks, it has seemed very busy every time I’ve gone, which is a good sign. Hopefully we start seeing more and more growth in the very near future.

 

To your three points:

1.) Avelo routes vs Breeze routes to the West Coast: 100% agree with you there, @blopp1234. My point isn't about the routes - it's about RIC (STILL NOT) landing a focus city base of ops for an airline. ANY airline, regardless of routes, (so long as the planes are full, obviously). I do agree - we're getting a MUCH better deal with the West Coast routes - but RDU ALREADY has those routes -- AND a LOT more. RDU also has a hub and international service to Europe. Plus the passenger volume - RDU had 14M total volume in 2019 and based on 6.9M through July 2022, they're on pace to almost equal that this year) vs not quite 4.5M (2019) at RIC (we're on a pace for about 4.3M this year).

2.) Regional airport: That's not exclusively my term for RIC. The local Richmond media THIS YEAR have referred to RIC as a regional airport, so if you think THEY are incorrect in their assessment, perhaps let them know that.

I would say - yes - RIC likely qualifies as a "medium-to-large" regional airport. But it is not a tier-1 "national" level airport by ANY stretch - YET.  Memphis, Louisville, OKC airports are all ranked ahead of RIC. Only ORF is behind us.

3.) Agreed 100%. The good news for RIC really IS the tremendous upside. Of course, we've been talking about RIC's upside now for a couple of decades and it's still growing at the rate that black strap molasses flows uphill in northern Minnesota in January. Meaning - unbearably slow. And while I realize that "any" growth is "better" than "no" growth - I still see it as SETTLING - and we NEED TO DO BETTER!

I'm sick and tired of places like RDU just flat pulling away from us and leaving us in their dust like we're not merely standing still but bloody well going in reverse. WE NEED TO DO BETTER!

Edited November 11, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Hike]

I have a reason why the Richmond airport underperforms, because once you’re here, why would you want to leave? 

[eandslee]

6 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

 

To your three points:

1.) Avelo routes vs Breeze routes to the West Coast: 100% agree with you there, @blopp1234. My point isn't about the routes - it's about RIC (STILL NOT) landing a focus city base of ops for an airline. ANY airline, regardless of routes, (so long as the planes are full, obviously). I do agree - we're getting a MUCH better deal with the West Coast routes - but RDU ALREADY has those routes -- AND a LOT more. RDU also has a hub and international service to Europe. Plus the passenger volume - RDU had 14M total volume in 2019 and based on 6.9M through July 2022, they're on pace to almost equal that this year) vs not quite 4.5M (2019) at RIC (we're on a pace for about 4.3M this year).

2.) Regional airport: That's not exclusively my term for RIC. The local Richmond media THIS YEAR have referred to RIC as a regional airport, so if you think THEY are incorrect in their assessment, perhaps let them know that.

I would say - yes - RIC likely qualifies as a "medium-to-large" regional airport. But it is not a tier-1 "national" level airport by ANY stretch - YET.  Memphis, Louisville, OKC airports are all ranked ahead of RIC. Only ORF is behind us.

3.) Agreed 100%. The good news for RIC really IS the tremendous upside. Of course, we've been talking about RIC's upside now for a couple of decades and it's still growing at the rate that black strap molasses flows uphill in northern Minnesota in January. Meaning - unbearably slow. And while I realize that "any" growth is "better" than "no" growth - I still see it as SETTLING - and we NEED TO DO BETTER!

I'm sick and tired of places like RDU just flat pulling away from us and leaving us in their dust like we're not merely standing still but bloody well going in reverse. WE NEED TO DO BETTER!

Wholeheartedly agree with all of what you said.  Somehow, RIC needs to do better as an airport.  I’m sure airport management is doing all they can to land additional service. I think the inability of RIC to be able to grow like it should have, all stems to what happened back in the 1970s when Piedmont decided to move to Charlotte instead…ever since, Richmond has not ever attained the notoriety it could have had…the Metro turned its back on that when it said no to the hub some 40+ years ago.  Still, Richmond is known to very few people in the United States…well, people have heard of it, but that’s about it. If we had an airline hub, Richmond would be very well-known and it’s economy would have been soaring over the past 45 years rather than shrinking or growing as quick as molasses on a cold day!

[I miss RVA]

26 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Wholeheartedly agree with all of what you said.  Somehow, RIC needs to do better as an airport.  I’m sure airport management is doing all they can to land additional service. I think the inability of RIC to be able to grow like it should have, all stems to what happened back in the 1970s when Piedmont decided to move to Charlotte instead…ever since, Richmond has not ever attained the notoriety it could have had…the Metro turned its back on that when it said no to the hub some 40+ years ago.  Still, Richmond is known to very few people in the United States…well, people have heard of it, but that’s about it. If we had an airline hub, Richmond would be very well-known and it’s economy would have been soaring over the past 45 years rather than shrinking or growing as quick as molasses on a cold day!

The choosing of the fiscally conservative, risk-averse approach of being satisfied with the rate of organic, incremental growth instead of biting the bullet, taking the Nestea Plunge and saying YES!!! BRING IT ON!!! to Piedmont's offer of a hub is the quintessential example of SETTLING that has held both RIC and RVA (city, metro, region) back SO badly for the past nearly 50 years. Tbh, I think that's why I find ANYTHING that even remotely SNIFFS of "settling" as an affront of Biblical proportions and I honestly take it personally. I utterly despise this mindset of "we don't need ______________________ (fill in the blank)" -- because -- "we're good enough the way we are/with what we have."

I'm sorry... but  NO... WE... ARE... NOT!!! 

We CAN DO BETTER.

WE MUST DO BETTER!!!

The Piedmont fumble is one of those Earnest Byner fumble-at-the-goal line-level screw ups from which we have YET to recover. I see this kind of SETTLING -- particularly the way it plays out for us vis a vis our peer (read it: competitor!!) cities -- as like trying to drive a Model-T Ford at the 2022 Indianapolis 500 and wondering why the entire field repeatedly blows by us every 45 seconds or so...

We've got what it takes to do better. Make no mistake about it. RVA IS doing a lot better, and doing so at an unprecedented level, certainly in my lifetime. Seems like we get that message loud and clear every other day when a new nugget drops in the RBS feed.

But even that said - WE CAN DO BETTER - if for no other reason than because we are playing from WAY behind our competitors. We just have to dig in and find ways to MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Edited November 12, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Niccckk]

Suncountry has now added direct flights to RIC from MSP! Although technically we see Suncountry all the time with the leased aircraft from Amazon Air, this will be PASSENGER flights! Cool to see a new airline pop in!

Maybe Delta will get some good competition? 

https://ishrionaviation.com/news/sun-country-major-route-expansion

Edited November 14, 2022 by Niccckk

[I miss RVA]

11 minutes ago, Niccckk said:

Suncountry has now added direct flights to RIC from MSP! Although technically we see Suncountry all the time with the leased aircraft from Amazon Air, this will be PASSENGER flights! Cool to see a new airline pop in!

Maybe Delta will get some good competition? 

https://ishrionaviation.com/news/sun-country-major-route-expansion

Thanks, @Niccckk!! This is, indeed, great news! VERY heartened to see RIC on the list of other airports getting service to and from MSP. 

[blopp1234]

53 minutes ago, Niccckk said:

Suncountry has now added direct flights to RIC from MSP! Although technically we see Suncountry all the time with the leased aircraft from Amazon Air, this will be PASSENGER flights! Cool to see a new airline pop in!

Maybe Delta will get some good competition? 

https://ishrionaviation.com/news/sun-country-major-route-expansion

Good to get MSP back. Wish it was more than 2x per week but it’s a good starter and with a low cost airline, it could encourage more people to travel.

[I miss RVA]

26 minutes ago, blopp1234 said:

Good to get MSP back. Wish it was more than 2x per week but it’s a good starter and with a low cost airline, it could encourage more people to travel.

Agreed.

Question: is this Suncountry's first actual passenger route in and out of RIC? If so - I wonder if there's any chance they might add any additional direct RIC routes? (Or do they operate exclusively out of their MSP hub?)

[Niccckk]

7 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Agreed.

Question: is this Suncountry's first actual passenger route in and out of RIC? If so - I wonder if there's any chance they might add any additional direct RIC routes? (Or do they operate exclusively out of their MSP hub?)

Yes, this is their first commercial passenger flight out of RIC. Periodically they do some random charter flights out of here, but commercially, this is the first.

Suncountry primarily operates out of their MSP hub, but also does flights out of touristy destinations like Vegas, Orlando, and Fort Myers. Those are really the only routes I can see them expanding with out of RIC.

 

[eandslee]

36 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Agreed.

Question: is this Suncountry's first actual passenger route in and out of RIC? If so - I wonder if there's any chance they might add any additional direct RIC routes? (Or do they operate exclusively out of their MSP hub?)

@Niccckk You beat me to this news, but this is great to see!  Finally, getting MSP service again!  Delta used to have daily service to MSP before the pandemic.  It came back for a short stint, but didn't last long before it was pretty much discontinued.  

So, SunCountry is an airline you see doing a lot of charters, but mostly operates out of its hub at MSP for all of its passenger service.  There is some point-to-point service, but it appears to be few and far between.  Here's their route map:

https://www.suncountry.com/route-map

Service between MSY and Richmond (RIC) twice-weeky starts May 19, 2023

Edited November 15, 2022 by eandslee

[I miss RVA]

53 minutes ago, eandslee said:

@Niccckk You beat me to this news, but this is great to see!  Finally, getting MSP service again!  Delta used to have daily service to MSP before the pandemic.  It came back for a short stint, but didn't last long before it was pretty much discontinued.  

So, SunCountry is an airline you see doing a lot of charters, but mostly operates out of its hub at MSP for all of its passenger service.  There is some point-to-point service, but it appears to be few and far between.  Here's their route map:

https://www.suncountry.com/route-map

Service between MSY and Richmond (RIC) twice-weeky starts May 19, 2023

Holy wow - they have a zillion flights out of that hub! 

NOW... who do we need to talk to about approaching them about establishing RIC as a nice East Coast FOCUS CITY?  I know they have what looks like focus city kinds of mini-hubs in Florida - but nothing in the mid-Atlantic/Northeast.

SOOOOOOOOO... what are we waiting for?

[eandslee]

7 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Holy wow - they have a zillion flights out of that hub! 

NOW... who do we need to talk to about approaching them about establishing RIC as a nice East Coast FOCUS CITY?  I know they have what looks like focus city kinds of mini-hubs in Florida - but nothing in the mid-Atlantic/Northeast.

SOOOOOOOOO... what are we waiting for?

Sun Country's target traveler is the leisure traveler.  Unless Richmond becomes a major tourist city, I'm afraid that I don't see that happening...unfortunately.  I'd like to see more frequent flights...daily?  Would be also cool to get direct flights to one of the other focus cities.  We'll see how this goes.

You can already book flights on their website.  One-way flights appear to start at $59.  Flights will be on Fridays and Mondays...mid-day flights out of RIC, early morning 0735 flights from MSP to RIC.

Edited November 15, 2022 by eandslee

[blopp1234]

Looking at their routes out of Minneapolis, it seems like most of Sun Country’s routes are seasonal, operated mostly 2x-4x per week so I wouldn’t doubt we get anything from them more than that. 
 

However, delta has tended to quickly add routes in order to compete with Sun Country in the past. Seeing as to how a smaller 50 seater regional jet could operate this route 2x per day for Delta, seems like maybe we could be getting a service reinstatement not to far down the line.

[eandslee]

The official announcement from Richmond International Airport:

https://flyrichmond.com/sun-country-airlines-to-offer-new-flights-between-minneapolis-st-paul-msp-and-richmond-ric/

[I miss RVA]

On 11/14/2022 at 6:59 PM, Niccckk said:

Yes, this is their first commercial passenger flight out of RIC. Periodically they do some random charter flights out of here, but commercially, this is the first.

Suncountry primarily operates out of their MSP hub, but also does flights out of touristy destinations like Vegas, Orlando, and Fort Myers. Those are really the only routes I can see them expanding with out of RIC.

 

Makes me wonder if they'd want to test the waters to offer competition at RIC for any of their high-tourist destinations? Or do you think they would view the RIC/RVA market not (yet) large enough for them to enter on a competitive basis?

[eandslee]

I'll just leave this right here as a foreshadowing of things to come very soon (hopefully):

https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-airways-international-route-announcement/?utm_medium=social&utm_term=editorial&utm_content=FEB51D9E-65FE-11ED-BC24-D8A84744363C&utm_campaign=thepointsguy&utm_source=twitter&tw=1

[blopp1234]

17 minutes ago, eandslee said:

I'll just leave this right here as a foreshadowing of things to come very soon (hopefully):

https://thepointsguy.com/news/breeze-airways-international-route-announcement/?utm_medium=social&utm_term=editorial&utm_content=FEB51D9E-65FE-11ED-BC24-D8A84744363C&utm_campaign=thepointsguy&utm_source=twitter&tw=1

I would be shocked if RIC wasn’t one of the initial routes. Breeze has had a lot of success out of RIC, with the RIC-SFO route consistently ranking near the top of their list in terms of how full the plane is (in June it averaged 93% full!). I’m guessing destinations like Cancun, Punta Cana or Montego Bay could be on the horizon! Here’s to hoping the announcement comes in before Christmas!( would be a nice early present!)

 

They’ve also announced that they plan to grow over 50% quarter over quarter, tripling in size by next year at this time according to Breeze’s CCO. So look for a pleathers of domestic and the start of international routes within the next year!

Edited November 17, 2022 by blopp1234

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, blopp1234 said:

I would be shocked if RIC wasn’t one of the initial routes. Breeze has had a lot of success out of RIC, with the RIC-SFO route consistently ranking near the top of their list in terms of how full the plane is (in June it averaged 93% full!). I’m guessing destinations like Cancun, Punta Cana or Montego Bay could be on the horizon! Here’s to hoping the announcement comes in before Christmas!( would be a nice early present!)

 

They’ve also announced that they plan to grow over 50% quarter over quarter, tripling in size by next year at this time according to Breeze’s CCO. So look for a pleathers of domestic and the start of international routes within the next year!

Maybe Toronto while we're at it!

If they DO grow by that much, perhaps RIC will also pick up a handful of domestic routes that aren't currently on the menu.