Richmond International Airport

[eandslee]

Just noticed that Allegiant Air runs the RIC - BNA route 4x a week now!  I think it was just one or two days a week when they first started (if I’m not mistaken). This is definitely a big deal. Flights are CHEAP too. I did a round-trip mock booking for some random dates in February and with a bundle that allows me a carry-on, a checked luggage, allows me to pick my seats, and trip flexibility (don’t know exactly what that is)…all totaled $230!!  That’s cheap!!  I’m surprised that Southwest Airlines has not tried to complete with Allegiant on this route   The demand is clearly there.  You know, I’ve just been sorely disappointed in Southwest at RIC. They are the most passive airline there is at RIC. I just don’t understand it. So much for the “Southwest Affect” people talk about (or used to).  Right now, this phenomenon is a complete dud!

But, yay for Allegiant Air to have the “cojines” to start this route and to keep it going with cheap fares!

Edited January 19 by eandslee

[blopp1234]

You are absolutely right about southwest being a dud at RIC.

 

While they might blame the lack of additional service on the delays with their 737 Maxs, they were hesitant not just to add service but to continue existing service prior to the pandemic, leading to us losing Orlando and Tampa service from them. Maybe someone more familiar with southwest could help me understand why these routes didn’t work for them because they seem like gimmes, especially Tampa seeing how well Breeze has done on it. Not sure if it’s due to the airport or the airline but Southwest is missing a huge opportunity for growth out of RIC. I can think of over 7 routes off the top of my head (Dallas Love, Tampa, Orlando, Houston Hobby, Denver, St Louis, Kansas City, Nashville) that could be successful for Southwest off the top of my head.

 

Luckily Breeze has stepped in and picked up the slack but it would be nice to also see Southwest show some balls and launch something new out of RIC instead of just using it as a funnel for Atlanta and Chicago Midway traffic.

[benstyree]

100% agree on Southwest.  I'm not sure what their strategy is at RIC, if they even have one.

But speaking of Allegiant, that's another airline that I'm surprised hasn't really expanded operations much at RIC.  They have operating bases in Austin, Cincinnati, Fort Lauderdale, Indianapolis, Vegas, LA, Phoenix, and Pittsburgh.  Yet, they only fly from RIC to Nashville and a few airports in Florida.  I've only flown on Allegiant once (back when they offered JAX) and the flight was fine.  I'm not sure of their RIC growth strategy either, but I'd like to see them expand operations here and offer some additional destinations (at least give us Austin!).

Edited January 19 by benstyree

[eandslee]

3 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

You are absolutely right about southwest being a dud at RIC.

 

While they might blame the lack of additional service on the delays with their 737 Maxs, they were hesitant not just to add service but to continue existing service prior to the pandemic, leading to us losing Orlando and Tampa service from them. Maybe someone more familiar with southwest could help me understand why these routes didn’t work for them because they seem like gimmes, especially Tampa seeing how well Breeze has done on it. Not sure if it’s due to the airport or the airline but Southwest is missing a huge opportunity for growth out of RIC. I can think of over 7 routes off the top of my head (Dallas Love, Tampa, Orlando, Houston Hobby, Denver, St Louis, Kansas City, Nashville) that could be successful for Southwest off the top of my head.

 

Luckily Breeze has stepped in and picked up the slack but it would be nice to also see Southwest show some balls and launch something new out of RIC instead of just using it as a funnel for Atlanta and Chicago Midway traffic.

Don’t forget that Southwest used to have nonstop service to Denver and haven’t started it back up. Wondering if they even will now.  Frustrating. 
 

I, too, am surprised that neither Allegiant nor Spirit, have done much expansion at RIC when there are obvious routes they could easily capitalize on.  Spirit has not expanded AT ALL since arriving at RIC and Allegiant has expanded very little. Their routes to BNA and PIE have probably been their most consistent routes.  Shame they didn’t jump on so many of the other routes that Breeze took advantage of…all to Breeze’s benefit, of course!  Actually, I think Breeze is a better airline than Allegiant and Spirit, but I would still like to see the competition (and the resulting lower fares)! 

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

You are absolutely right about southwest being a dud at RIC.

 

While they might blame the lack of additional service on the delays with their 737 Maxs, they were hesitant not just to add service but to continue existing service prior to the pandemic, leading to us losing Orlando and Tampa service from them. Maybe someone more familiar with southwest could help me understand why these routes didn’t work for them because they seem like gimmes, especially Tampa seeing how well Breeze has done on it. Not sure if it’s due to the airport or the airline but Southwest is missing a huge opportunity for growth out of RIC. I can think of over 7 routes off the top of my head (Dallas Love, Tampa, Orlando, Houston Hobby, Denver, St Louis, Kansas City, Nashville) that could be successful for Southwest off the top of my head.

 

Luckily Breeze has stepped in and picked up the slack but it would be nice to also see Southwest show some balls and launch something new out of RIC instead of just using it as a funnel for Atlanta and Chicago Midway traffic.

 !!!

I don't get why Southwest doesn't step up and launch, say, 3x weekly flights to those at least SOME of those seven destinations (at least Dallas, Houston, Nashville to start) - or why they don't add Denver back to the lineup if they had it before. There's low-hanging fruit they could easily gobble up that would generate business for them and be a win for Richmond. I know RIC is not a "Tier-1" airport (yet!!) - but does Southwest have something against multiple destinations from Tier-2 airports? Obviously, they're dug in on the hub-and-spoke system - but there's no reason they can't fly to multiple destinations out of Richmond.

Edited January 19 by I miss RVA

[ancientcarpenter]

Just to be cool and brag a little: I'm going to Cuba in a few weeks for vacation! There are only two airports that allow visas/flights to Cuba - Miami and Houston. The joy of being in RVA is that we have direct flights to both of those airports so that makes it a 1 stop for me.  And it's slightly more expensive than traveling from DC but if you include the drive and parking the car then it's cheaper to fly from RVA.

Gotta love our city!

 

Edited January 20 by ancientcarpenter

[I miss RVA]

8 hours ago, ancientcarpenter said:

Just to be cool and brag a little: I'm going to Cuba in a few weeks for vacation! There are only two airports that allow visas/flights to Cuba - Miami and Houston. The joy of being in RVA is that we have direct flights to both of those airports so that makes it a 1 stop for me.  And it's slightly more expensive than traveling from DC but if you include the drive and parking the car then it's cheaper to fly from RVA.

Gotta love our city!

 

SWEET!!! We may have to chat offline if you happen to get your hands on a few realllllllllllllly good, hand-rolled Cuban cigars... 

[Niccckk]

On 1/19/2023 at 1:08 PM, I miss RVA said:

 !!!

I don't get why Southwest doesn't step up and launch, say, 3x weekly flights to those at least SOME of those seven destinations (at least Dallas, Houston, Nashville to start) - or why they don't add Denver back to the lineup if they had it before. There's low-hanging fruit they could easily gobble up that would generate business for them and be a win for Richmond. I know RIC is not a "Tier-1" airport (yet!!) - but does Southwest have something against multiple destinations from Tier-2 airports? Obviously, they're dug in on the hub-and-spoke system - but there's no reason they can't fly to multiple destinations out of Richmond.

I agree and I've said this so much as well! Ever since they dropped Orlando and Tampa those routes are ended up being dominated by Breeze (w/ the Tampa route) and jetBlue, Spirit, and Allegiant (SFB) to Orlando. Obviously there is demand for the Tampa route since Breeze is pretty much doing it daily out of here (I think 6x) and their doing that route primarily with their A220. I have no clue why jetBlue and Southwest decided to back out of that route...

However,  I personally think this year we might see a resurgance in these routes again, since according to what they've said to investors, they plan on restoring a majority of their network from the pandemic and prior.

I don't think its a 100% chance we get all of our previous SWA flights back but I think we will definitely get some back this year.

 

Also a tad bit off topic, but DAMN, we're at 7x daily Atlanta flights with Delta right now. WOW (with 6/7 of those being on a 757)

Edited January 22 by Niccckk

[Hike]

Close your eyes and go to the way future machine, imagine RIC/RVA with this, it’ll happen. First will be a fast route to DC, book it….
 

Ed does a nice job describing the route, details, a nice read, he does go on to price compare a trip to Milan and illustrates the lower cost from Dulles, all in fun, but too bad to highlight, though he did show an RIC cheaper trip to St. Thomas vs Dulles.  As was always my consideration when flying out of RIC, you have to add driving to and from before/after a flight, often tired or late on the way home, then the parking, tolls. To me, eliminating those hassles had a huge value and would often pay more to not go through that.
 

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/01/27/silver-line-playbook-riding-the-new-d-c-metrorail-extension-to-dulles-guest-commentary/

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, Hike said:

Close your eyes and go to the way future machine, imagine RIC/RVA with this, it’ll happen. First will be a fast route to DC, book it….
 

Ed does a nice job describing the route, details, a nice read, he does go on to price compare a trip to Milan and illustrates the lower cost from Dulles, all in fun, but too bad to highlight, though he did show an RIC cheaper trip to St. Thomas vs Dulles.  As was always my consideration when flying out of RIC, you have to add driving to and from before/after a flight, often tired or late on the way home, then the parking, tolls. To me, eliminating those hassles had a huge value and would often pay more to not go through that.
 

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/01/27/silver-line-playbook-riding-the-new-d-c-metrorail-extension-to-dulles-guest-commentary/

Good point. Also, I got a little cringey when he mention that Dulles is a valid alternative to using RIC.  Even if it is true, I wouldn’t promote it!  Just me. If you do ever use Dulles, you have to take into consideration all the points Hike makes above. Is it worth it?  Probably not in most cases.  People should use RIC wherever possible.  It helps develop the statistics needed to find out where folks are actually traveling to, which could lead to new service to destinations people actually want from RIC. When you use another airport, that data is not captured. Plus, it’s always good to support the local airport. I can understand though if the fares are so cheap that it makes all the trouble of flying out of Dulles worth it. But how often is that the case?

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, Hike said:

Close your eyes and go to the way future machine, imagine RIC/RVA with this, it’ll happen. First will be a fast route to DC, book it….
 

Ed does a nice job describing the route, details, a nice read, he does go on to price compare a trip to Milan and illustrates the lower cost from Dulles, all in fun, but too bad to highlight, though he did show an RIC cheaper trip to St. Thomas vs Dulles.  As was always my consideration when flying out of RIC, you have to add driving to and from before/after a flight, often tired or late on the way home, then the parking, tolls. To me, eliminating those hassles had a huge value and would often pay more to not go through that.
 

https://richmondbizsense.com/2023/01/27/silver-line-playbook-riding-the-new-d-c-metrorail-extension-to-dulles-guest-commentary/

While I love Dr. Slipek's writing style and his attention to detail - his knowledge and how he gives over the history of various and sundry places, things, etc., I have to admit that this RBS piece gave me a LOT of heartburn, not the least of which is his advocating for Richmonders to just blow off RIC and fly out of IAD - something that as we've been discussing is a major problem holding RIC back and tamping down on our own airport's passenger traffic. 

Mind you - i realize that Dulles has international destinations that RIC not only doesn't have but perhaps NEVER WILL have. But pushing potential traffic away from Richmond just rubbed me the wrong way. Exactly the same way WRIC8's article touting Norfolks's direct flight to LA really irked me. I'd rather see articles written that would incentivize local travelers to use RIC -- greater passenger traffic will help keep costs low. And I'd much rather see articles that push for establishing international destinations out of RIC than articles encouraging potential RIC flyers to go to NOVA to fly.

But that's just me. It was a good and entertaining read - and maybe that's all it was meant to be - but he could well have left out the "alternative to flying out of Richmond" component of the story on the cutting-room floor.

Edited January 27 by I miss RVA

[eandslee]

51 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

While I love Dr. Slipek's writing style and his attention to detail - his knowledge and how he gives over the history of various and sundry places, things, etc., I have to admit that this RBS piece gave me a LOT of heartburn, not the least of which is advocating Richmonders to just blow off RIC and fly out of IAD - something that as we've been discussing is a major problem holding RIC back and tamping down on our own airport's passenger traffic. 

Mind you - i realize that Dulles has international destinations that RIC not only doesn't have but perhaps NEVER WILL have. But pushing potential traffic away from Richmond just rubbed me the wrong way. I'd rather see articles written that would incentivize local travelers to use RIC -- greater passenger traffic will help keep costs low. And I'd much rather see articles that push for establishing international destinations out of RIC.

But that's just me. It was a good and entertaining read - and maybe that's all its meant to be - but he could well have left out the "alternative to flying out of Richmond" component of the story on the cutting-room floor.

100%!!  You said it better than me!

Something I’d like to see RBS do is highlight the airport, its offerings, growth, projects, new service, etc. they do virtually none of this now and the airport and its offerings are such a HUGE part of the local business community and its success!!  Someone over there needs to become good friends with Troy Bell and Perry Miller and get them to talk.  The airport needs to market itself better - RBS can assist the airport in this with free (to the airport) promotion!  I’m also convinced that the average person in the Richmond Metro area knows very little, if any, information about the airport and its advantages, offerings, and future plans. Really, the airport needs the local public to stand behind it/support it, but they can’t do that if most people think that the only aerial gateway to Virginia lies up in NOVA!  Gotta change that.  The airport can do so much better when the local (and all Central Virginia…and parts north) public 100% stands behind it!! @RVABizSenseMike?

Edited January 27 by eandslee

[I miss RVA]

25 minutes ago, eandslee said:

100%!!  You said it better than me!

Something I’d like to see RBS do is highlight the airport, it’s offerings, growth, projects, new service, etc. they do virtually none of this now and the airport and it’s offerings are such a HUGE part of the local business community and it’s success!!  Someone over there needs to become good friends with Troy Bell and Perry Miller and get them to talk.  The airport needs to market itself better - RBS can assist the airport in this with free (to the airport) promotion!  I’m also convinced that the average person in the Richmond Metro area knows very little, if any, information about the airport and its advantages, offerings, and future plans. Really, the airport needs the local public to stand behind it/support it, but they can’t do that if most people think that the only aerial gateway to Virginia lies up in NOVA!  Gotta change that.  The airport can do so much better when the local (and all Central Virginia…and parts north) public 100% stands behind it!! @RVABizSenseMike?

 on all of this, @eandslee

Let me add one more log for the roaring fire: instead of touting the WONDERS of flying out of IAD and encouraging Richmonders, dangling one of those old - "try it, you'll LIIIIIIIIIIIKE it!" carrots in front of local travelers by waxing poetic about the beauty and grandeur and yada yada about the new Silver Line extension from downtown Washington - WHY NOT ADVOCATE for something SIMILIAR connecting downtown Richmond with RIC?? Instead of "hey, Richmonders, you NEED to come up here and give this a try..." -- wouldn't we all be better served if Dr. S pivoted the article to the theme of - "hey, this is great and works well. NOW - let's get something similar to this in Richmond!!"  And TO HELL with whether or not such a thing would be realistic right now. AT LEAST PUT THE IDEA OUT THERE!! WOWZERS!

I think RBS and Dr. Slipek fumbled on this one from a Richmond perspective - it's a total lost opportunity to advocate for something progressive for Richmond.

[Hike]

2 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

 on all of this, @eandslee

Let me add one more log for the roaring fire: instead of touting the WONDERS of flying out of IAD and encouraging Richmonders, dangling one of those old - "try it, you'll LIIIIIIIIIIIKE it!" carrots in front of local travelers by waxing poetic about the beauty and grandeur and yada yada about the new Silver Line extension from downtown Washington - WHY NOT ADVOCATE for something SIMILIAR connecting downtown Richmond with RIC?? Instead of "hey, Richmonders, you NEED to come up here and give this a try..." -- wouldn't we all be better served if Dr. S pivoted the article to the theme of - "hey, this is great and works well. NOW - let's get something similar to this in Richmond!!"  And TO HELL with whether or not such a thing would be realistic right now. AT LEAST PUT THE IDEA OUT THERE!! WOWZERS!

I think RBS and Dr. Slipek fumbled on this one from a Richmond perspective - it's a total lost opportunity to advocate for something progressive for Richmond.

From the RBS comments, this commenter had some concerns, sharing them here, made me chuckle, it  can be found on the original article link under comments.

“Encouraging people to use the oft-delayed Amtrak to ride for two and a half hours IF the train isn’t delayed by CSX, Amtrak, or commuter rail (though from someone who rides the VRE regularly, the delays are usually on Amtrak) to get off at Alexandria, to lug their crap to King St Station, to ride the metro to L’Enfant, to switch to the Sliver line, so they can ride the metro to Dulles, to try to catch a plane on time rather than spending their money at the local airport is daft.”

[I miss RVA]

6 minutes ago, Hike said:

From the RBS comments, this commenter had some concerns, sharing them here, made me chuckle, it  can be found on the original article link under comments.

“Encouraging people to use the oft-delayed Amtrak to ride for two and a half hours IF the train isn’t delayed by CSX, Amtrak, or commuter rail (though from someone who rides the VRE regularly, the delays are usually on Amtrak) to get off at Alexandria, to lug their crap to King St Station, to ride the metro to L’Enfant, to switch to the Sliver line, so they can ride the metro to Dulles, to try to catch a plane on time rather than spending their money at the local airport is daft.”

 !!!

Very well said! Glad someone spoke up in response on RBS.

[Brent114]

I did that Amtrak to Union Station, metro to National Airpot then shuttle to Dulles for a flight to Frankfort years ago.  Not sure I have the stamina to do it again lol. 

[RVABizSenseMike]

I've mentioned y'all's appetite for more airport coverage to the powers-at-be here at BizSense. We've covered things like concourse expansions at RIC in the past but I hear y'all's concern that there are things happening there that might be going uncovered locally. (I also have to mention that we're a small team so cultivating an entire new beat in the airport would be more tricky and time-consuming than one might think)

 Lastly, if anyone has an idea for a piece about RIC, we do accept guest commentary submissions. If you're interested, feel free to DM me or email me at [email protected]

 

 

[Hike]

4 hours ago, RVABizSenseMike said:

I've mentioned y'all's appetite for more airport coverage to the powers-at-be here at BizSense. We've covered things like concourse expansions at RIC in the past but I hear y'all's concern that there are things happening there that might be going uncovered locally. (I also have to mention that we're a small team so cultivating an entire new beat in the airport would be more tricky and time-consuming than one might think)

 Lastly, if anyone has an idea for a piece about RIC, we do accept guest commentary submissions. If you're interested, feel free to DM me or email me at [email protected]

 

 

One thing that could happen, why doesn’t the airport advertise itself? It does a very poor job of getting word out about itself. 
 

I was thinking about what would be a starter “article” and when thinking about it, I could see something like just basic stuff, RIC has grown, passenger growth,  these are the carriers, here’s the routes, here’s where they want to grow and where they hope to go, challenges, hidden costs beyond just a low cost option elsewhere and why to fly RIC. 

[I miss RVA]

6 hours ago, Hike said:

One thing that could happen, why doesn’t the airport advertise itself? It does a very poor job of getting word out about itself. 
 

I was thinking about what would be a starter “article” and when thinking about it, I could see something like just basic stuff, RIC has grown, passenger growth,  these are the carriers, here’s the routes, here’s where they want to grow and where they hope to go, challenges, hidden costs beyond just a low cost option elsewhere and why to fly RIC. 

One potential article that would require some analysis - "what would it take for RIC to land a focus city/flight ops or a hub -- and why we need one"...

Edited January 31 by I miss RVA

[ancientcarpenter]

On 1/20/2023 at 6:04 PM, I miss RVA said:

SWEET!!! We may have to chat offline if you happen to get your hands on a few realllllllllllllly good, hand-rolled Cuban cigars... 

I managed to accidentally pack a few things here and there... was pleasantly surprised. Supporting the Cuban people!

 

Per the topic of Dulles vs RIC: I always drove to Dulles to fly because it was cheaper by a few hundred. HOWEVER, I have yet to do that in the last 3 years because it's just not worth it in my book anymore. To save $150 not flying from RIC to Dulles, I'd have to drive my car 2 hours minimum with no traffic to DC and then leave my car at a friend's house or pay for daily parking. And when I get back from any trip (especially international) the last thing I want is a 2 hour boring i95 drive. Not worth the savings anymore... maybe I'm getting old but that's my view and I think a lot of others are seeing it my way. 

And that's not taking into account gas and possible risk like car accidents or maybe even missing my flight. Or the biggest risk of all: Not sleeping an additional 2 hours since I have kids

 

[blopp1234]

Some very positive news this morning from Southwest.

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest-airlines-new-nonstop-routes-long-beach-california/amp/
 

Denver daily service will be returning on September 5th! 
 

Awesome news as hopefully this marks the reversal of Southwests downsizing at RIC and maybe some new routes coming this summer or next winter to places like St Louis, Kansas City, Houston Hobby, Dallas Love, Tampa or Orlando!

Edited February 9 by blopp1234

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, blopp1234 said:

Some very positive news this morning from Southwest.

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest-airlines-new-nonstop-routes-long-beach-california/amp/
 

Denver daily service will be returning on September 5th! 
 

Awesome news as hopefully this marks the reversal of Southwests downsizing at RIC and maybe some new routes coming this summer or next winter to places like St Louis, Kansas City, Houston Hobby, Dallas Love, Tampa or Orlando!

Definitely good to see - would’ve liked to have seen it start right before summer though…but I’ll take it!

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

Awesome news as hopefully this marks the reversal of Southwests downsizing at RIC

and maybe some new routes coming this summer or next winter to places like St Louis, Kansas City, Houston Hobby, Dallas Love, Tampa or Orlando!

1.) AMEN!! Great news indeed!

2.) From your keyboard to God's eyes, my friend! 

[Niccckk]

5 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

Awesome news as hopefully this marks the reversal of Southwests downsizing at RIC and maybe some new routes coming this summer or next winter to places like St Louis, Kansas City, Houston Hobby, Dallas Love, Tampa or Orlando!

I definitely hope we at least see the return of Tampa and Orlando, both of which Southwest had operated... Orlando use to be daily a couple years ago... hopefully after that we see the cities you mentioned, especially Dallas Love which can easily compete with Americans DFW flights.

[I miss RVA]

18 minutes ago, Niccckk said:

I definitely hope we at least see the return of Tampa and Orlando, both of which Southwest had operated... Orlando use to be daily a couple years ago... hopefully after that we see the cities you mentioned, especially Dallas Love which can easily compete with Americans DFW flights.

Do we have any data as to how many daily flights Southwest operated out of RIC before the pandemic and before it started scaling back service?