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eandslee

Richmond International Airport

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2 hours ago, vaceltic said:

Eandslee, I thought for sure you’d beat me to the punch on this. AMAZING growth for RIC. Maybe in a few years, we can surpass 5M passengers?

https://www.nbc12.com/2020/01/28/richmond-international-airport-sees-record-number-passengers/

Sorry I didn’t get to it before you - I’m actually in Hawaii right now on a military TDY.  I’m elated to hear this news though. I hope (and we should expect) there will be expanded service this year with the opening of the expanded concourse A!!

With this expansion, I’d be willing to bet the airport sees even more growth this year...assuming the city’s business reputation hasn’t just tanked!

Edited by eandslee

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14 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Sorry I didn’t get to it before you - I’m actually in Hawaii right now on a military TDY.  I’m elated to hear this news though. I hope (and we should expect) there will be expanded service this year with the opening of the expanded concourse A!!

With this expansion, I’d be willing to bet the airport sees even more growth this year...assuming the city’s business reputation hasn’t just tanked!

Don’t worry. It will continue growing and won’t tank. Those are just dramatic words from dramatic cry baby corporations who lost $20M in their own planning and marketing gamble. They are just sending out empty threats, naturally feeling wounded from their failed, closed door, secretive, top down project the community is rejecting. The rest of Richmond’s great business and tourist community will endure with or without these sore losers’ who threaten doom and gloom upon this awesome region.

Edited by vaceltic
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We really need a new arena though and now we will have nothing if Council doesn’t get their crap together.  I was also looking forward to the rest of the project...the housing, the office, the retail space...ugh!  I’m so pissed!  Richmond will never get an offer to do something like this again (mark my words - no one will want to).  It will always be a second and third-rate city with screwballs running city council. Just frustrated.

...but I digress...this thread is about the airport - one of the shining stars of the Richmond area!

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Update on the airport’s Concourse A expansion.  I think Mr. Bell in his quote is being very modest.  I know the airport needs new parking for overnight aircraft, but how can you build 6 new gates and not expect expanded service as well...especially with the growth the airport has seen?  I have a feeling that more announcements of expanded service is coming this year.  Concouse A expansion is now scheduled to be completed by the end of the summer (a little later than originally thought):

https://www.wric.com/8news-digital-exclusives/ric-airport-extension-of-concourse-a-slated-for-completion-at-end-of-summer/

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2 hours ago, RiverYuppy said:

Passenger traffic up 8.2%!

 

As a side note, I scored a cheap upgrade to first class on my Detroit connector flight next week!  

Looks like ORF (+7.9%) and PHF (+7.3%) are trying to keep up as well.  Hopefully the current scare does not starting cutting in.

https://www.pilotonline.com/inside-business/vp-bz-airport-traffic-20200226-rbmpppiw4jhqxbwixodqz3f53i-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

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5 hours ago, Icetera said:

Looks like ORF (+7.9%) and PHF (+7.3%) are trying to keep up as well.  Hopefully the current scare does not starting cutting in.

https://www.pilotonline.com/inside-business/vp-bz-airport-traffic-20200226-rbmpppiw4jhqxbwixodqz3f53i-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Glad to see RIC outpace ORF not only in marginal year-over-year increase but in total monthly passengers. Has full-year 2019 data been released? I'd like to see how total volume at RIC stacks up vs ORF.

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One of my favorite “good news stories” in Richmond is its airport: RIC.  It continues to grow every month with more passengers served.  It just surpassed the 4.3M passengers last calendar year, which is more passengers than it has ever served!  While this is very good news as well as a good indicator of Richmond’s growing economy, I think the airport can do much better and grow much more.  That growth needs to be aggressive growth and having 6 more gates in Terminal A will help.  One thing is for sure - there will be added service to Richmond this year.  In fact, I ran across this article that talks about a new airline (Breeze Airways) that will start this year. The article focuses on Dayton, OH, but embedded in the article it speaks of new service from RIC to JAX (Jacksonville, FL) on Breeze Airways as a potential initial route for the soon-to-born airline.  I know it’s another Florida destination, but there is obviously a lot of people in Virginia wanting to visit Florida.  Still waiting on direct service to a west coast destination.  Thought it may have happened by now, but we still wait. Anyway, here is the article I mentioned above:

https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2020/03/04/report-dayton-airport-the-top-landing-spot-for-new.html?ana=yahoo

Edited by eandslee
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Good to see the potential for more service to RIC. Breeze's planned route structure as discussed in this article in a way reminds me of the old Eastern Airlines. 

I'm curious - with RIC's passenger traffic continuing to grow at a robust clip and new gate space in concourse "A" - provided the economy stays reasonably strong, what kind of growth from a standpoint of added flights, routes, airlines, etc., do you think we might see in 2020?

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1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

I'm curious - with RIC's passenger traffic continuing to grow at a robust clip and new gate space in concourse "A" - provided the economy stays reasonably strong, what kind of growth from a standpoint of added flights, routes, airlines, etc., do you think we might see in 2020?

Providing the economy stays strong, I can definitely see added seating capacity on current routes this year.  In fact, I closely watch the routes to and from RIC and I have noticed a trend of larger aircraft than what was available on some existing routes. This is good news for sure. These routes are likely profitable for the airlines serving them.  Orlando has just exploded and another such route is the RIC-DEN route.  I’ve noticed lately that United has been using A319s on most days lately whereas they had been using Embraer 175s (a smaller plane with fewer seats). Not every flight is an A319, but I’m seeing more and more of them.  This tells me that there is quite a demand for western destinations from RIC. What frustrates me is that Norfolk (ORF) has a similar route and even has another airline (Frontier) that serves the same market.  If you don’t know already, these two airports compete and often times when one airport gets service from an airline the other usually follows with a similar route. It’s like ORF is constantly on our tails and we can’t shake them.  RIC has a higher annual passenger count than ORF, but not by too much. Both airports have seen a lot of growth lately.  As far as any other predictions on any additional air service from RIC this year...well, that’s anyone’s guess.  I just can’t seem to ignore that RIC is expanding their facilities (something ORF can’t do because their airport is land-locked) and there will be extra capacity for airlines to expand service.  The holy grail would be landing an airline that uses RIC as a focus city (or hub), but I can’t see that happening right now unless a new airline comes along with a lot of faith in Richmond and decides to invest here.  Likely?  Not yet (I’ll never say never).  RIC has a lot of potential and a crap-ton (that is a technical term) of people from which to draw. It just has to win over those potential passengers with unique destinations (direct flights), more flight variety, increased seating capacity, and lower prices (nice facilities don’t hurt either, but RIC has a handle on that).  RIC’s location is its best asset - literally, the sky’s the limit!  Personally, I’d like to see an airline open up a new direct route to somewhere on the west coast before the end of the year.  Will the airport aggressively court the airlines to get one?  I hope, but we shall see. 

Edited by eandslee
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eandslee - good points all the way around. That RIC isn't landlocked and has the room to expand is a huge plus - IF ... and that's a BIG if -- the powers that be will ever take the necessary steps to land a hub. My brother works in corporate travel and for years has said it is ridiculous that Richmond has never aggressively pursued and landed a hub. He's right. 

Like you said - never say "never" -- but what meteoroid has to drop out of the sky and fall on these folks to get any movement? I fear it's too late - Richmond had the opportunity 40 years ago - and now there are established hubs aplenty. And I somehow don't see the region coming off with the coin to do the two things needed  for a hub: build parallel runways and expand the terminal to have a dedicated terminal building to service the hub. Expansion of the control tower is usually needed with the acquisition of a hub as well. RIC has the space for parallels. RIC has the space for a bigger -- or a second -- terminal building. RIC has the space for a bigger, enhanced control tower. But do the powers that be have the willingness to sink the money into the investment? And does Richmond have the potential hub-drawing power it had 40 years ago?

Even Raleigh has served as a hub - and currently has two terminal buildings, parallel runways, offers service to Europe and is looking to add service to Asia. Passenger traffic in 2019 topped 14 million. They're obviously doing SOMETHING right!

Whither RIC?

Edited by I miss RVA
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4 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

eandslee - good points all the way around. That RIC isn't landlocked and has the room to expand is a huge plus - IF ... and that's a BIG if -- the powers that be will ever take the necessary steps to land a hub. My brother works in corporate travel and for years has said it is ridiculous that Richmond has never aggressively pursued and landed a hub. He's right. 

Like you said - never say "never" -- but what meteoroid has to drop out of the sky and fall on these folks to get any movement? I fear it's too late - Richmond had the opportunity 40 years ago - and now there are established hubs aplenty. And I somehow don't see the region coming off with the coin to do the two things needed  for a hub: build parallel runways and expand the terminal to have a dedicated terminal building to service the hub. Expansion of the control tower is usually needed with the acquisition of a hub as well. RIC has the space for parallels. RIC has the space for a bigger -- or a second -- terminal building. RIC has the space for a bigger, enhanced control tower. But do the powers that be have the willingness to sink the money into the investment? And does Richmond have the potential hub-drawing power it had 40 years ago?

Even Raleigh has served as a hub - and currently has two terminal buildings, parallel runways, offers service to Europe and is looking to add service to Asia. Passenger traffic in 2019 topped 14 million. They're obviously doing SOMETHING right!

Whither RIC?

RIC did just get a new, tall control tower a few years ago, so I think they are good there. Good “bones” are there at the airport.  Just need more growth.  RIC is doing one heck of a business - they’re making good money, so the air travel industry is alive and well in Central Virginia. I only see that getting better.  Time to capitalize on a great location and tap into ALL potential passengers - even those that would normally fly out of one of the DC airports!

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59 minutes ago, eandslee said:

RIC did just get a new, tall control tower a few years ago, so I think they are good there. Good “bones” are there at the airport.  Just need more growth.  RIC is doing one heck of a business - they’re making good money, so the air travel industry is alive and well in Central Virginia. I only see that getting better.  Time to capitalize on a great location and tap into ALL potential passengers - even those that would normally fly out of one of the DC airports!

With the expansion of Concourse A -- how much more traffic could RIC handle with just the facility in place? Unless we land a hub, I don't see a bigger terminal -- or what would be better - a "Terminal 2" building being built - until this one maxes out on capacity. The biggest hurdle just from an industry perspective (this from my brother) is getting the price to be more competitive with the other airports in the region. It's still cheaper in some (many?) cases to fly out of ORF and/or Patrick Henry. And it's definitely cheaper to fly out of DCA and BWI. I'm not sure how that price gets lowered except through competition - and the only way to heat up competition is to really drive passenger growth. It's the typical catch-22, chicken-and-egg scenario. They both cycle off each other. If there is enough demand, then new destinations will be added - more flights scheduled and more airlines flying in and out of RIC. 

As you said in the other thread, how long is "slow but moderate growth" going to get us anywhere? Especially when I see numbers like RDU gaining 1.2M passengers from 2017 to 2018 and another 600K from 2018 to 2019. Can RIC realistically move into territory of gaining an ADDITIONAL 75K to 100K passengers PER MONTH and then sustain it over time for a year, 18 months, two years? That's what needs to happen.

How do we get there?

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More concerts, basketball tourneys, and events wouldn’t have hurt.  
 

#LookinAtYouCityCouncil

 

I know I’ve flown across the country for particular concerts as many do, too.  As of now, we don’t even have a venue to host a religious convention!  

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6 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

With the expansion of Concourse A -- how much more traffic could RIC handle with just the facility in place? Unless we land a hub, I don't see a bigger terminal -- or what would be better - a "Terminal 2" building being built - until this one maxes out on capacity. The biggest hurdle just from an industry perspective (this from my brother) is getting the price to be more competitive with the other airports in the region. It's still cheaper in some (many?) cases to fly out of ORF and/or Patrick Henry. And it's definitely cheaper to fly out of DCA and BWI. I'm not sure how that price gets lowered except through competition - and the only way to heat up competition is to really drive passenger growth. It's the typical catch-22, chicken-and-egg scenario. They both cycle off each other. If there is enough demand, then new destinations will be added - more flights scheduled and more airlines flying in and out of RIC. 

As you said in the other thread, how long is "slow but moderate growth" going to get us anywhere? Especially when I see numbers like RDU gaining 1.2M passengers from 2017 to 2018 and another 600K from 2018 to 2019. Can RIC realistically move into territory of gaining an ADDITIONAL 75K to 100K passengers PER MONTH and then sustain it over time for a year, 18 months, two years? That's what needs to happen.

How do we get there?

Currently, the airport is nowhere near operating at capacity levels.  In fact, it can facilitate twice as much air traffic as it does today under its current configuration.  There are plans, however, to expand airport facilities (to include new terminals and runways) if it is needed. Here is a link to a map of the master plan as it currently stands (https://t4s7f2q2.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ric_alpmap.pdf).  The plan is about 10 years old now, so it’s about time to update it again.  Anyway, as you can see from the plan, if an airline decides to make Richmond its next hub, there is a plan for that. The master plan, if fully implemented due to demand, would signify huge change in Richmond.  These sorts of potential changes are a dream come true to me!

So how do we get there?  Well, I have my ideas (mine may not align with the airport leadership...not 100% sure), but I think the airport has to be marketed better (Mr. Bell is doing a fantastic job being the spokesman for the airport in the information space though) in order to appeal to more Virginians (not just Richmonders) to bring in the passengers.  You have to have a good product (great airline options, non-stop destination offerings, seating capacity, airline competition, continue to focus on convenience, outstanding facilities, and have inexpensive choices...you have to make flying out of RIC more worth it for the consumer than driving to DC to catch a flight, etc.  Prices in the last 20 years have significantly decreased at RIC - which is a very good thing - a direct reason for the growth RIC has seen recently).  

I also think the land on the airport premises needs to be heavily marketed for development as well.  There is a lot of land around the airport that is under utilized or not utilized at all.  Shoot for maintenance facilities/hubs (there already is a small one there), cargo hubs, hotels, etc. to fill in that space.  The airport needs to be as business friendly as possible and the word needs to get out to make it an attractive move for companies and airlines. I know that the local business community gets involved in helping bring more routes and airlines to the airport...this effort needs to continue and grow.  Apply for as many subsidies as possible to bring more money to help the airport in a myriad of ways. It would be nice to have an airport manager well-connected to the airline industry who is well-respected, who is a “go-getter” who will help propel the airport forward (also must have an airport commission who wants the airport to aggressively grow).  Not sure that is not already the case (either regarding the commission or the airport manager)...I just don’t see the kind of results yet that I would expect for an airport trying to grow aggressively (don’t get me wrong - the airport is definitely growing).  Anyway, just some ideas. I’m not an expert in this at all, but I’ve seen things like this work in the past in other places around the country.  Some of theses are things RIC is already doing...I just don’t see drastic growth (they are obviously seeing some positive results because the airport continues to grow steadily).  Maybe that is the smart way to grow...perhaps it is in our current economic environment.  Explosive growth wouldn’t happen unless a hub were established at RIC resulting in a spike in construction of new facilities, etc.  Just some thoughts I have.  Mr. Bell gets on this site every once in a while, so I don’t want him to fillet me for my thoughts...he is a great guy and does a excellent job!  In all honesty, I do think that he thinks I’m crazy for my ideas from time to time though.  LOL!  He is an expert and I am not...so there is that.  I just do this for fun. 

Edited by eandslee
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18 hours ago, Richmonopoly said:

More concerts, basketball tourneys, and events wouldn’t have hurt.  
 

#LookinAtYouCityCouncil

 

I know I’ve flown across the country for particular concerts as many do, too.  As of now, we don’t even have a venue to host a religious convention!  

Agreed. Getting something like NCAA tourney first and second-round games (as has happened in the past) certainly wouldn't hurt at all.

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eandslee -- beautifully said, all the way around!! You are absolutely spot on. I wasn't aware the airport master plan actually has a contingency for the big "if" - IF an airline decided to hubify RIC. 

Re: Mr. Bell - I'm sure he's doing a fantastic job from what you've said. And yes -- he's the expert and you come on here to discuss this for fun ... BUT ... you and many others are either customers or potential customers. If you fly into/out of RIC - your money should have some voice, no matter now small. You hit the nail on the head -- a key component HAS to be marketing, and this applies to the airport as well as to growing business and population in the city/metro/region. Regardless of what the preservationists say, Richmond doesn't have some of the amenities that larger cities have established as good business draws. Doesn't mean she can't acquire and/or develop them, though. I've argued for years that aggressive marketing is critical to driving growth here -- both as a city and as an attractive flight option. Not that Mr. Bell needs to be P.T. Barnum or some huckster snake oil salesman - but aggressiveness is what will ultimately bring more attention to the airport and to the city. 

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15 hours ago, eandslee said:

Currently, the airport is nowhere near operating at capacity levels.  In fact, it can facilitate twice as much air traffic as it does today under its current configuration.  There are plans, however, to expand airport facilities (to include new terminals and runways) if it is needed. Here is a link to a map of the master plan as it currently stands (https://t4s7f2q2.stackpathcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ric_alpmap.pdf).  The plan is about 10 years old now, so it’s about time to update it again.  Anyway, as you can see from the plan, if an airline decides to make Richmond its next hub, there is a plan for that. The master plan, if fully implemented due to demand, would signify huge change in Richmond.  These sorts of potential changes are a dream come true to me!

 

Thanks for posting the link to the airport master plan! Holy moly - so they ARE at least planning big. Given the length of the parallels, they're obviously thinking in terms of flying some big birds in and out (Airbus 380, 747, 787, etc.) Good. VERY good, actually!

Of course if the "fiscally conservative" regional leadership isn't willing to pony up the needed coin to make this happen (say, for example, Southwest wanted to put a centrally-located East Coast hub (no idea who has hubs at what airports in the region -- just using Southwest as an example) - airport commission has the plans in place - all that's needed is money... and the local yokals in Chesterfield and Henrico say "thanks but no thanks" ... (a replay of the Piedmont disaster) ... then WHAT ON EARTH do we do?? I can't imagine there would be enough state or federal funds to help build a bigger airport.

So even if the airport commissioner and other leaders market heavily, traffic goes up, more airlines start offering more flights, etc., if a major airline comes knocking on the door with an offer to establish a hub here ... HOW do we get the "but the schools!!!" crowd to all go on vacation to Mars for a couple of years while we build a bigger/better mouse trap?

Man -- I like this plan -- especially the length of the parallels. That said international traffic. If this thing got built, how difficult would it be to imagine American or United offering flights to London or Paris or Rome somewhere down the road? 

I see the second terminal building and "C" concourse would be constructed south of the main terminal. If this were to come to pass and traffic increased such that a third terminal was needed, could it be built north of the main building? Wouldn't it be something to see RIC sporting three terminals, four (or more) concourses, a major hub airline, international flights...

I know I'm only dreaming, but God, don't wake me up yet...

 

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18 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Man -- I like this plan -- especially the length of the parallels. That said international traffic. If this thing got built, how difficult would it be to imagine American or United offering flights to London or Paris or Rome somewhere down the road? 

I see the second terminal building and "C" concourse would be constructed south of the main terminal. If this were to come to pass and traffic increased such that a third terminal was needed, could it be built north of the main building? Wouldn't it be something to see RIC sporting three terminals, four (or more) concourses, a major hub airline, international flights...

I know I'm only dreaming, but God, don't wake me up yet...

 

You’re funny!  I won’t wake you!  LOL!

Regarding international flights...I saw that a Henrico County company merged with a UK company a couple weeks ago (I forgot where I read it...maybe Virginia Business or GRPVA?).  Update:  This might be it, but there was another one too:  https://www.grpva.com/newsroom/news/henrico-based-brinks-plans-860-million-deal-for-uk-based-company/).  Anyway, I was thinking, “Wow!  I wonder if there might be a push now to get flights to London?”  Probably not yet, but I do know that there are quite a few companies in the RVA metro area with ties to England. Just not sure we have crossed the critical threshold to warrant a flight to London.  It would be nice though...even if it were just once a week to start!  Time to recruit more UK businesses (I’m looking at you GRP)!

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Amen to that, eandslee! Good to know that RVA has some companies with European ties. That's the way to go - as you said, maybe offer one flight each way per week to start. Maybe fly into Gatwick insteak of Heathrow (might be cheaper for the airline) ... maybe something like a fly into RIC on a Friday and to Britain on Sunday. Or vice versa. 

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Okay, I have to step up on my soapbox a minute and air out a bit of frustration.  Here goes:

I've spent the last several days in Knoxville, TN , McGhee-Tyson Air Guard Base to be exact, which sits directly across the airfield of Knoxville’s commercial airport. I have to say, this little airport is busy!!  First of all, my first impression of the airport facility was surprisingly good as it is very modern (glass curtain walls, awesome decor matching the area’s assets - they really have done a good job).  My biggest surprise was from my observations throughout this week watching the airfield operations - don’t be fooled, this airport is busy!  As I contemplated this, I wondered how many direct routes this little airport serves. After a short Google search, I discovered some surprising statistics - first of all, this airport has direct service to 29 cities!!  What?!  29?!?  How many direct routes does RIC serve?  The answer is only 23!  Then, I looked up Knoxville’s passenger counts. Last year, TYS served 2.5M passengers.  While that is less than RIC, it isn’t less by very much. In fact, it wasn’t too long ago that RIC was serving about that many passengers per year. I then discovered that Allegiant airlines was about to start several new routes from Knoxville in May, which is going to greatly increase their destination diversity and undoubtedly increase their annual passenger counts. My next thought was, “What is this airport doing, which serves a city about half the size of Richmond, that RIC is not doing?”  I don’t know the answer to that, but I can tell you that If TYS can land the type of air service they do for a city half the size of Richmond, RIC should be able to do that and more!  The population of Central Virginia greatly exceeds that of northeast Tennessee.  Nashville, a major hub, is not far away and still this airport is able to thrive!  So what’s RIC’s real reason for not being able to grow at faster pace?  Not sure, but it might have something to do with it’s management.  I just don’t think it’s aggressive enough nor do I think the airport’s image in the public’s eye is where it needs to be. This frustrates me to no end!  I’d like to know what RIC’s plan for quicker growth is...or is there even a plan of this type?  Really, after what I’ve seen this week, there is no excuse for why RIC is not miles ahead of where it currently is (and I’ve heard all kinds of excuses).  It’s time to get cracking on some serious growth at RIC.  We still don’t have direct flights to LAS yet!  Knoxville does!!  Someone needs to put the pedel to the medal at RIC and get the airport growing at a faster clip!  I know my timing of this post is a bit unfortunate with the Coronavirus taking a grip on the country, but this is something the airport can contemplate for when things get back to normal.  Get it done RIC!

My wish list for RIC:

- More diversity in direct flights  to more destinations (west coast destinations - LAS is a good start)

- More focus on bringing in new airlines, more options

- Focus on helping airlines currently serving RIC, expand

- Shoot for landing at least one international flight to start (London would be nice), but Canada, Mexico, somewhere in the Caribbean...something!!

- Market, market, market!!! Market to all of Virginia to include markets in other areas closer to other airports!  RIC needs to change its image so that it is seen as the best option for price, the best airport with the most direct flights, ease of use, the best alternative to the DC airports...and then it has to back up what it claims!!

- Court the airlines to get them to take a chance on RIC - that it would be worth their money to do so!  Be aggressive in doing so.

- Somehow motivate the airlines to provide better service to the RIC customers (ex - it takes forever to get my luggage after my flight at baggage claim...why does it take so long?!?  This needs to be fixed)

[steps off soapbox]

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