Bought A CAR

[chrysalis]

I have fond memories of going with my grandparents to the dealership and picking out a family car and driving home in that car. Does anyone else share those memories or a similar experience?

I bought a 2004 KIA AMANTI base price of 27,000 with 3000 factory rebate it came to 24,000 plus ttl(down payment covered) I researched all of the car buying websites and in the end i was SCAMMED.

The MSRP sticker on my car was missing. The dealership said this was not a big deal. "This is a Good car"

There were 7000 miles on the car. "The owner was the only one who drove the car so it is still NEW"

The check that the dealership mailed to entice me was not honored due to i used the factory rebate.

Since this is tax season and most of us have a little extra money to pay the dealerships I wanted to write this post to inform other buyers and to hear from others who share a similar experience

My "New" car has been serviced already due to a factory recall for a part that should have been replaced before they offered it for sale.

The Federal Trade Commission states that demonstrators and program cars are USED cars.

It is also federal law that all new cars have the MSRP in or on the car and visible

Finally, the dealership is now advertising a new 2005 Amanti for 22,000 ttl. Imagine that...the owner puts 7000 miles on the car and a year later the car is actually worth more than a new model. So 6 weeks later, I am paying a lawyer to protect my rights and get my money back. Buyer Beware

[ezcheese]

Wow, they really did a number on you. I think the siren would have gone off for me the second i saw that they were asking $27,000 for any Kia. I didn't think they even sold any new Kias for over $20,000.

[satalac]

never buy a car that has the same name as a military casualty.

[nashvol85]

Damn! Do research before buying a car, first of all. See what others are offering for them...and always GO LOW when you negotiate price. The dealers will always try to trick you into quickly signing the check without dropping the price.

Quick question, are you male or female? Some car dealers tend to not take women seriously.

Tips:

When buying a new car, buy in the winter (about 4-5 months after the car has come out)

If you don't like the car, or something about it, DON'T GET IT...no matter how much they try to sell it to you.

Research facts, pros, and cons about the car. The salesman will probably not know too much about the car that he's selling...depends on the type of dealership. In my experience, I have known more than the salesmen that I have delt with. It doesn't hurt to give them the hint that you know all about the car, so they don't rant about something they know little about.

Here's a helpful site to use to find a new or used car...

New

Used

Wait until the end of the month to make the purchase (salesmen are trying to make quotas/salesmen of the month)

Don't be afraid to twist their arm (if they say they can't go that low, start to walk off, they will chase you...you are a potetial customer and they always want to sell a car)

New cars have all kinds of profit and games figured into the MSRP, so immediately tell them to drop any "rebates" or other BS from the price (if it says "$3,000 cash back", tell them to just figure it in to the price you pay...)

If you are giving them a hard time, you'll be able to tell. They will usually come at you with "what kind of price would it take to sell you this car"...always fish for some rediculously low price...that way they know that you aren't going to pay what they tell you to.

Don't negotiate because you "really love that particular car"...they will trap you on the price...make it seem that you have plenty of time to buy, and you "like the car" but you don't love it. They will try hard to make it seem like you can't do without the car.

You don't have to buy the car the day you see it. Take it slow, and make a couple of return trips if necessary. Don't pay more than you are willing to...if they can't sell the car, they call you back to see if you are still interested...you have the upper hand.

If a car has ANY significant miles (over 5-600), then it is NOT a new car. The value depreciates the very second it was driven off the lot (remind them of that). If a car has 7,000 miles on it, that should be a few thousand off of the price.

Ask for a "price out the door"...including tax, title, license AND make them include any processing or documentation fee. This way you can say, "I'll pay $22,000 out the door"...and they can't add on any little games or tricks to get you to pay more money.

Be firm and confident.

I hope this helps you out next time around...

[chrysalis]

Wow, they really did a number on you. I think the siren would have gone off for me the second i saw that they were asking $27,000 for any Kia. I didn't think they even sold any new Kias for over $20,000.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is what I thought at first. The Amanti is really a nice looking car and has all the features of most of the top luxury cars. In hindsight I should have RAN when they wouldnt produce the MSRP sticker...but HEY that is how some of them make the big money...by breaking consumer protection laws and proving that the fraud and deception run rampant in the automobile industry.

Hopefully this post will save someone else the time and trouble.

[nashvol85]

You could have probably bought that car for about $12-$13,000. The depreciation is rediculous on those Korean cars. If you want a good investment, go with Toyota, Honda, or maybe even Nissan. Or buy German...that works too.

[chrysalis]

Female

Also thanks for the tips...The dealership backslided on the price. Everytime i asked for the final price the salesman would tell me that the Finance department sets the final Price. In th state of Texas this also qualifies as a deceptive trade practice. It seems as though they broke every law in the book to get me into that car. My contract even states that i purchased a NEW car. Hopefully the Atty General will investigate their other business practices

[monsoon]

I don't think there are any laws that prevent you from paying too much for a car. And if it wasn't in writing, then legally it doesn't matter. You won't have any recourse in the court system.

If it is any consolation, you know better next time you make a purchase.

[chrysalis]

Technically there are laws....Federal Laws that aim to protect the consumer from paying too much for an automobile. The automobile Information Act which makes it illegal for dealerships to offer a car for sale without a used car buyers guide on used cars or an MSRP on new cars.

The Texas Deceptive Trade Act and Federal Trade Commission protect the consumer from being misled or deceived into paying too much for cars and lesser items. In other words the dealership cant sell you a used car as if it is new. They also define what can be sold as new or used. The Texas DTPA also has law against the resale of watches. Can U believe?...Me either, but that is why people need to know there rights.

Thankfully I did get everything in writing.

[monsoon]

Well honestly it sounds like you didn't do your homework and signed up for a bad deal. Good luck on trying to remedy your mistake in court.

[chrysalis]

Well honestly it sounds like you didn't do your homework and signed up for a bad deal.  Good luck on trying to  remedy your mistake in court.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks alot for your comments..I guess somehow you feel that I deserve them. It happens to thousands of people everyday and maybe "me not doing my homework" will be helpful to someone else who may not know their rights or the laws regarding the sale and purchase of automobiles.

www.FTC.gov, State Attorney General Office as well as The Department of Transportation should be helpful for anyone who has been in my situation or to report violations.

[monsoon]

Actually I don't think you deserve what you got as you should be able to walk into a car dealership and deal with them in an honest and upfront manner. But people are not like that today so you have to be on your toes to watch out for them.

In any case welcome to UrbanPlanet.

[chrysalis]

Thanks for the welcome! I like urban planet already...I should have been talking to some of you guys last month.

[Chemmie]

On the other hand, I just bought a new (but last years model) 2004 Mazdaspeed MX-5 (Miata).

The MSRP for the vehicle was $26,250.00.

Invoice was $24,259.00.

I paid $21,500 plus tax/tag/title. (counting incentives)

BUT!!!!!

I had a trade-in. Blue Book Value for my trade was $3700, and that was generous. They gave me $8500!!! That's $4800 more than Blue Book!

So, assuming they would give me $3700 for my trade under normal circumstances, I figure I paid around $16,700 plus tax/tag/title, about $18K out the door!

To top it off, I got a fantastic interest rate! 4.5% on a 72 Month loan. The loan won't be around for that long though, I just needed the lower payment until I sold my other house.

Last years models are always a huge bargain. Body style is changing in 2006, making it an even better bargain.

DO YOUR HOMEWORK WHEN BUYING A CAR!!!! Always go home, get on the internet and do the research! Figure out what you want in the deal and don't budge. Never give them what they want, they will always come down to you if you are within reason, even if it takes a few days. They will come down.

[nashvol85]

On the other hand, I just bought a new (but last years model) 2004 Mazdaspeed MX-5 (Miata). 

The MSRP for the vehicle was $26,250.00. 

Invoice was $24,259.00.

I paid $21,500 plus tax/tag/title. (counting incentives)

BUT!!!!!

I had a trade-in.  Blue Book Value for my trade was $3700, and that was generous.  They gave me $8500!!!  That's $4800 more than Blue Book!

So, assuming they would give me $3700 for my trade under normal circumstances, I figure I paid around $16,700 plus tax/tag/title, about $18K out the door!

They gave you $8500? Sounds like a money trick...

You paid 21,500 plus ttl, then they gave you 8500? Please explain...and also what kind of car was the trade in (model/yr/mileage)?

[Chemmie]

They gave you $8500?

[nashvol85]

Was the rebate instant or do you have to send it in? I would have just told them to knock $1500 off of the price.

In my mind...you paid $23,000 for a car that cost $24.5k and got a $1,500 rebate, but gave them a car worth $3,700...that looks like giving them $25,200 for a $24,500 car. Did they give you money (straight cash, homie) for the trade in or just knock it off the price?

On my "receipt" for my transaction, the online deal on the car I wanted was $19,135 (sticker was $20,800) plus tax, title, license. My trade in (they told me) was worth $3,000, which would bring the price down to $16,135 plus taxes etc. I twisted their arms for a while and ended up paying about $15,909 for the car, including more than $1,000 in taxes, title, and license. This would brought "their" price to about $14,400. The value that they placed the trade in at was $4,700, $1,700 more than they quoted...

They aren't giving you more for your car, they're eating their profit. For the sake of bookkeeping (and selling it to you), they told you that they gave you a lot for your car. They'll probably sell it for a profit for about $5-6k.

[chrysalis]

Natty how much would you charge to accompany me to the next dealership? Just kidding i think ill be fine after this.

My lawyer went over my contract and says this is not only a prime example of fraud but also blatant disregard to the laws. While reviewing my contract it has been discovered that not only did the dealer deceive me..they recieved financing from the bank under the pretense that my car was NEW...not a demo...not a program car but NEW!

This has been an ordeal for me. Kia is aware of the right front strut noise. My car is being serviced again due to the noise has returned. 2 visits in 2 months of ownership.

I think the best resourses are NADA, Edmunds and the federal trade commission site. The price of the car was never my issue as i had researched NADA. It was the New or Used issue. Common sense will tell you that a car with 7000 miles is used..but I was told by the four different salesman that because "it wasnt ever registered that it was still new". All of my paperwork says NEW...when they could have selected demo or used..but then they couldnt have convinced me to pay that price had they told the truth.

Chemmie, I am glad that you were not scammed....I am confused by the numbers on your deal ...that maybe because i havent calmed down from work yet.

[Dannym5]

Im in the car business so I think I can answer a few questions... although I must say that I own a pre-owned car dealership with my name on the door and my reputation on the line, meaning that I would never want a customer to feel like he/she was treated unfairly.

What is a New Car?

Legally any car that has never been titled is still considered New... Meaning, if it still has the MSO (Manufacturers Statement of Origin) it is still a new car. That is a technicality but most salespeople dont care they are just tryin to pay their bills and its not their reputation thats on the line. What you are talking about happens every day, Im sorry to say.

Id say the first mistake you made was going for one a low priced large scale production car. Anything that you buy that is built on such a large scale will not be worth anything 5 years down the road.

Negotiating:

If you are wanting to do research be realistic about it. I would suggest going to Kelly Blue Book or Edmunds to find list prices. And then check the market in the area on Autotrader or Cars.com. The more information that you have when you walk in to negotiate the less they will jerk you around. If you are negotiating and they say they do not have authority to change the price ask to speak to the person who can.

I hate Consumer Reports or anything like that because they are biased about everything. If you ever pay attention to their articles its just their personal opinion on a certain product and in many cases they dont even know very much about the product that they are reviewing

As far as Recalls:

Every car has recalls. And contrary to popular belief its a good thing if it has had a recall. I say this because if its been recalled it means that the Company has Admitted that it is a problem and is willing to fix it for free. I would rather have a part recalled than to have a part that was known to be bad but not recalled, because something worse could happen.

My Consensus:

I dont doubt that they ripped you a new one on that deal but I believe that it will be extremely hard to prove. Depending on the size of the dealership it would be a difficult case for you. If the dealer has a good lawyer I wouldnt expect you to get very much, and in most cases they do because the owners of new car dealers have deep pockets.

Also I would be careful with the lawyer unless he is a family friend or someone from pre-paid legal services because for them they dont mind putting in the time cause they get paid no matter what (unless its one of those "We dont get payed until you get paid" places)

[paulblackgsx]

Was the rebate instant or do you have to send it in? I would have just told them to knock $1500 off of the price.

I've never seen a rebate on a car you had to mail in. They always apply it to the purchase price.

[satalac]

On the other hand, I just bought a new (but last years model) 2004 Mazdaspeed MX-5 (Miata). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i'm jealous. awesome car. i'd get one, but the thing is, i can't fit. why can't they build a tall person's miata?!!!!

[chrysalis]

Thanks all you guys for the comments. Complaining A LOT WORKS!!! My situation has been resolved. I still own the piece of junk just at the reasonable and customary price and the vehicle is on its way to being a LEMON...check any of the forums listed for the 2004 Amanti.

We shouldnt allow the Automotive Industry to continiously lower the bar. BTW the lawyer didnt work...contacting the media did. I guess they didnt feel like participating in the story. This has been a defining moment in my financial life.

I am still going to be upside down about 2000 on the price of the vehicle but that was better than 6000. If you see the amanti and you feel that it is beautiful as i did...test drive it for a month...the 2005 model is supposedly corrected...but given what i have been through, i wouldnt trust it.

If you feel that you are being cheated you probably are...Dont stand for it!! I was very discouraged by comments regarding me pursuing this...not just on this site but even during the talks with attorneys. Again if you feel you were wronged..complain to everyone that will listen. If we all just accept this type of dealing then they have no reason to change.

[satalac]

Thanks all you guys for the comments.  Complaining A LOT WORKS!!! My situation has been resolved.  I still own the piece of junk just at the reasonable and customary price and the vehicle is on its way to being a LEMON...check any of the forums listed for the 2004 Amanti. 

  We shouldnt allow the Automotive Industry to continiously lower the bar.  BTW the lawyer didnt work...contacting the media did.  I guess they didnt feel like participating in the story.  This has been a defining moment in my financial life. 

  I am still going to be upside down about 2000 on the price of the vehicle but that was better than 6000.  If you see the amanti and you feel that it is beautiful as i did...test drive it for a month...the 2005 model is supposedly corrected...but given what i have been through, i wouldnt trust it.

  If you feel that you are being cheated you probably are...Dont stand for it!! I was very discouraged by comments regarding me pursuing this...not just on this site but even during the talks with attorneys.  Again if you feel you were wronged..complain to everyone that will listen.  If we all just accept this type of dealing then they have no reason to change.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

when in doubt, take it to the media. great idea! businesses had bad press.

[chrysalis]

KIA...Killed In Action I am still going to follow through with the govt regulatory agencies because this shouldnt happen to anyone else. I think the problem is exacerbated by the NEW definition. The attorneys advised that this was intended to protect the length of a consumers warranty when a dealership has used the vehicle. It is a direct contradiction of the Federal Trade Commission guidelines. For anyone else, no matter what the dealership says...if they have driven the car for personal use you should not pay the New car price for that vehicle. Demonstrators and or program cars should have a used car buyers guide displayed along with the Msrp.

Now...climbing off my soapbox...Can anyone recommend a quality large sedan? I think I'll be in the market real soon.

[Neo]

Can anyone recommend a quality large sedan? I think I'll be in the market real soon.

IMO you get what you pay for. There is a notable difference between a Kia sedan and a Lexus Sedan in terms of quality, ameneties, etc. How much are you looking to spend and we might be able to offer you some advice?