Norfolk History

[usermel]

Looking at the pictures does put me in a time machine. I remember this time period as a time when Norfolk was still declining and Waterside was the saving idea that brung it back a bit. Nobody but, a few shopped downtown. There were no hotels to stay at, well not as many as we have now. Downtown was a struggling place and again, without Waterside was a afterthought for locals aside from the downtown loyalist like me and others who shopped Granby Street for generations before them till then. I remember Sovarn Bank and before it was changed into Sovarn and the HUGE parking for the building with SMA on it!! Thats what I called it as a kid and did till it was torn down.

Norfolk has done quite a bit since then, a building here and there. LIght rail and a few other changes have changed downtown forever and this picture is a reminder of how much good they did do. Just to give Norfolk some credit, especially after seeing this early 1980's picture! LGNM

Edited January 6, 2011 by usermel

[varider]

there's aboslutely no comparison of the norfolk of the 80s to Norfolk 2011..

[Norfolk4Life]

people often cite Portland as an example of a great urban city. They apparently looked just like Norfolk in the 1970s.

although they had more city blocks (but only because Norfolk had already demolished them for public housing fields), notice the number of vacant lots (whole city blocks) and the large imposing highway that covers the waterfront of Downtown. When you look at Norfolk, remember that large roads like Tidewater Dr, Waterside Dr, etc. were built over an existing grid. Norfolk's grid extended through all of the public housing and surrounding areas. Before 'urban renewal' Norfolk's street pattern had been nearly unchanged since it was layed out originally.

[urbanlife]

people often cite Portland as an example of a great urban city. They apparently looked just like Norfolk in the 1970s.

although they had more city blocks (but only because Norfolk had already demolished them for public housing fields), notice the number of vacant lots (whole city blocks) and the large imposing highway that covers the waterfront of Downtown. When you look at Norfolk, remember that large roads like Tidewater Dr, Waterside Dr, etc. were built over an existing grid. Norfolk's grid extended through all of the public housing and surrounding areas. Before 'urban renewal' Norfolk's street pattern had been nearly unchanged since it was layed out originally.

There is a technicality to that which isn't being addressed, the age of the two cities in an important factor to consider. Portland is barely 150 years old and at one point a good number of those blocks had only one house each on them, kind of like small estate lots. Obviously Portland did fall victim to the early effects of urban renewal, we leveled a number of buildings downtown, especially though Oldtown to install the freeway that ran along the west side of the river (though in the 70s, Portland did the unthinkable and tore out that freeway and installed a waterfront park.)

The area in the southern portion of the photo is definitely a devastation at the time for the city, it basically whipped out an entire Jewish and Italian neighborhood within the city, in the idea of building a modern city on top of it. From it we got a unique development that gave the city several apartment buildings (that a few of them were recently converted to condos during the boom.) This blocks were unique for Portland because they were super blocks that pushed auto traffic to the borders of these blocks and left the inner portions of the blocks open to just pedestrian use...which has been kind of an underused amenity, depending on how you look at it (though I love the quiet bike ride home through that area without being around cars.) Also during that urban renewal phase, the south western part of that photo along the park blocks was the beginning phase of Portland State University which in recent years has consumed most of the land within the southern portion of downtown.

One could easily argue that Portland did do its share of destroying buildings and neighborhoods, which I think the city went a little bit too far with the neighborhood in the southern portion of the city, especially when you see photos of what was there, only to see the suburban style office park that was built in its place at the very southern end of the photo...that is always kind of depressing. But the reason why Portland is always mentioned so much when it comes to urban planning is because in the 70s when every other city was talking about highway expansions, Portland's mayor and Oregon's governor were tearing out a freeway and using highway money to fund the city's light rail system, something that was unheard of at the time, especially seeing that Portland was nothing more than a large logging city back in the 70s.

Also, if you look at aerial photos of Portland during that era, you might notice that the northern portion of downtown was void of buildings, which actually had nothing to do with urban renewal because the northern portion of downtown use to be a big railyard and much of what is now the Pearl District is a new urban section that is built on top of those old rail lines.

Obviously I use Portland as a reference a lot because I currently live here, but there is a lot to be said about a little logger city becoming the leading city in urban planning in a mere 50 years. I like to point out all the great things about Portland because much of the improvements that have happened here are because of innovative thinkers and politicians that didn't look at the short term, but rather the long term for the city's improvements, and these are things I would love to see Norfolk do. In the 70s many of our neighborhoods were hanging on by a thread and it wasn't until the city council gave neighborhoods a voice within the city that things began to change for the better because people felt like they had more control over what was happening in their own neighborhoods. During the past almost 7 years of me living here, I have seen the Mississippi district go from an unsafe ghost town to the next "it" neighborhood to be in, and I can see neighborhoods and shells of neighborhoods in Norfolk being in this same position and wanting them to make the same right moves, but for this to happen would require innovative politicians that are willing to give neighborhoods a real voice in their own futures.

By the way, I can see the 1916-ish house that I currently live at in this photo, which is in the south west corner of the photo, just past the highway...it is awesome living so close to work that I can bike there...the only down side to where I live is being next to a big college now that I no longer go there.

Edited January 6, 2011 by urbanlife

[BFG]

I still can't believe how much Norfolk has grown from that c. 1983 picture to now. If not for a few buildings (mainly Waterside and the BoA tower), I would never believe it's Norfolk. Waterside used to have a shop storefront with an aerial shot of Norfolk in the mid-70s, and it looked like a ghost town, and you could see the decay in the Granby Street area and even down Tidewater Drive area.

Here's one...not quite where I was thinking, but pretty close. It's the same site.

I'd suggest you guys join AltDaily, starting by becoming fans on Facebook. They're big on improving the way of life in Hampton Roads, starting with Norfolk. They helped organize the Zombie Walk that was so big last fall...

[usermel]

WOW, the Bank of America building has been there for years now. Didn't realize its been there so long. Time really has gone by. That building has been there longer than Iv'e been on earth! LGNM

[usermel]

Yeah, also were Waterside is now, was also beside it were the Sheraton is now as well. Norfolk seemed to have gotten rid of older buildings and built new ones over the years. Its been a process and still ongoing! Now there looking at what to do with Waterside almost 30 years later. Its almost a natural process of cities as buildings age and time goes on things lose appeal and use. The key moving forward may be to think forward so projects like Waterside dont lose there usefulness so quickly like it has. Sad for me because like some here we remember what that place was. Almost pains me to see some of the thoughts on it but, the truth hurts. MacArthur killed it and Granby Street having a resurgence totally did it in. Theres something that could work there. What, I dont know! HAHAHAHA! LGNM

Edited January 6, 2011 by usermel

[BFG]

Yeah, also were Waterside is now, was also beside it were the Sheraton is now as well. Norfolk seemed to have gotten rid of older buildings and built new ones over the years. Its been a process and still ongoing! Now there looking at what to do with Waterside almost 30 years later. Its almost a natural process of cities as buildings age and time goes on things lose appeal and use. The key moving forward may be to think forward so projects like Waterside dont lose there usefulness so quickly like it has. Sad for me because like some here we remember what that place was. Almost pains me to see some of the thoughts on it but, the truth hurts. MacArthur killed it and Granby Street having a resurgence totally did it in. Theres something that could work there. What, I dont know! HAHAHAHA! LGNM

Ever since Norfolk announced plans to possibly tear it down, I have suggested a convention center, esp. with the Westin project being stuck in neutral. There's a lot of space that could be knocked out, esp. the upstairs where the nightclubs used to be. I don't think the city's using their head enough...

BTW, what's LGNM? :-)

[urbanlife]

Ever since Norfolk announced plans to possibly tear it down, I have suggested a convention center, esp. with the Westin project being stuck in neutral. There's a lot of space that could be knocked out, esp. the upstairs where the nightclubs used to be. I don't think the city's using their head enough...

BTW, what's LGNM? :-)

Actually I have always been a bit surprised that Waterside has never been converted into a convention center or something yet.

[virginia pe]

Actually I have always been a bit surprised that Waterside has never been converted into a convention center or something yet.

The convention market is very competitive because every city has a convention center they are trying to fill. It's a buyer's market. A group that is planning a convention can afford to be very particular about the amenities it wants. To be competitive, a convention center needs to have a hotel attached to it, or immediately adjacent to it, and it needs to be a 4- or 5-star hotel. The Sheraton and Hilton are only a block away from Waterside, but that is too far when trying to market a convention center to a convention organizing committee.

Unless, of course, the city is as stupid as Virginia Beach, who built a $200 million convention center that they are having trouble marketing without an adjacent hotel. They apparently thought the Hilton at 31st Street would serve convention goers at the convention center on 19th Street. After they opened the new convention center, they came back to city council and said "Oops!. Now we need to build a convention hotel next door to make the convention center competitive with other markets."

[urbanlife]

The convention market is very competitive because every city has a convention center they are trying to fill. It's a buyer's market. A group that is planning a convention can afford to be very particular about the amenities it wants. To be competitive, a convention center needs to have a hotel attached to it, or immediately adjacent to it, and it needs to be a 4- or 5-star hotel. The Sheraton and Hilton are only a block away from Waterside, but that is too far when trying to market a convention center to a convention organizing committee.

Unless, of course, the city is as stupid as Virginia Beach, who built a $200 million convention center that they are having trouble marketing without an adjacent hotel. They apparently thought the Hilton at 31st Street would serve convention goers at the convention center on 19th Street. After they opened the new convention center, they came back to city council and said "Oops!. Now we need to build a convention hotel next door to make the convention center competitive with other markets."

Technically it would be possible to connect both the Sheraton and the Marriott to Waterside, but you are right that it is a very competitive market which is why Norfolk is more concerned with building a small scale convention center to go after the smaller business groups and such, which Waterside would fill the city's need for a smaller convention center.

As for Virginia Beach, that was a pretty stupid move on their part to build a big rebuild without building a hotel attached to it. And if I am not mistaken, the city was thinking the Double Tree and the hotels along the waterfront would work fine, but until the city builds a uniformed urban system and transportation that services the convention center and the rest of the oceanfront, they will probably continue to struggle to keep it filled.

[usermel]

Waterside is a total puzzle that nobody in control in the city of Norfolk has been able to figure out. Norfolk has to address Waterside soon. I hate to say it but, the quickest solution is to tear it down and allow a new hotel on that spot. That said, what they should do I have no idea. Waterside to me is historical for me. It helped allow downtown to survive so MacArthur Center could come along in1999! Waterside did its part as much as any project in Norfolk to keep downtown relevant in any way. Waterside to me, though Im sure NOT OTHERS is a local historical landmark. Its not appreciated enough what that building did. I don't remember any building in my years hear being as packed as that place on weekends. You could barely walk in Waterside because of the people that filled that place!

WOW, great memories. Yes, its the past and Norfolk has a stronger downtown along with a mall. Whatever they do it has to be able to take people away from the center of downtown and the mall and MacArthur drew folks away from the water. Waterside if it stays or is revived it needs to have a ability to draw folks away from were they are going now and thats hard. If it goes I will miss Waterside due to memories but, I understand change happens and hope what is in its place will be just that, better. As long as its better than whats there now, its a win! LGNM

[jwkphoto]

Yeah to both comments above! The picture is most likely older than 1992 now that I think about it but, certainly in the mid to late 1980's. And there are so many empty spots as well. When you grow up in a place only pictures can display what has changed as time goes on. These pictures at the very least display what good Norfolk has done instead of the bad.

Its clear downtown has very little room to grow from these pictures. They have to grow beyond traditional downtown Norfolk and this means expanding beyond were it has. Seeing the new Wells Fargo/Wachovia building away from the rest kind of starts the spread away from the front of downtown close to the water! The growth is certainly seen from this picture. And some of these buildings don't exist anymore. WOW, growth and time. From full head of hair in these pictures to a few gray hairs. WOW, TIME FLIES BY NO MATTER YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES! Oh well, let's hope the growth continues! L.G.N.M

I helped build the Town Point Center in 1986, so I would guess this photo was made in '85 or older.

[jwkphoto]

My guess is 1980. Which still shows monumental progress and our downtown has filled in nicely. The above picture is a lame excuse for a downtown and looks like it didn't even have the density to give one a "city" or urban feel like our current DT can. My parents tell me of a DT with like 3 restaurants and a convenient store. Norfolk has risen from the dead, and has become the cultural center of VA.. and is well on it's way to becoming the premier city of the state.

This photo was made in the last year or so. I have a photo of the Norfolk waterfront that was made in '87 and The Dominion Tower had not been built. Also there are buildings there that I helped construct around that time and the new Brambleton bridge is completed plus the light rail tracks are there.

Edited May 9, 2011 by jwkphoto

[lil-bear]

http://hamptonroads.com/2012/03/norfolk%E2%80%99s-newest-theatre-%E2%80%93-visulite-%E2%80%93-1937

I found this interesting. The Visulite Theater. It says it was on the corner of Colonial Ave. and 13th St. That intersection no longer exists. From my investigating, it must have stood across Colonial Ave. from the current Harris Teeter.

Edited March 13, 2012 by lil-bear

[urbanvb]

I love the architecture of this little building. Great find.

Edited March 13, 2012 by urbanvb

[skylinefan]

Great historic picture of Granby St. on Victory over Japan day 1945.

http://nrha.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Historical/G0000sjxf1Fx4fek/I0000I6nOJGt2IlM

[BFG]

Whereas I love this one, as it shows a busy Granby Street at night.

http://nrha.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Historical/G0000sjxf1Fx4fek/I0000is.rFWFXrp0

There's a similar one from the 1940s that I'd love to have framed. That one would look awesome on my wall too though. ;-)

[BFG]

Found it...it's actually on my hard drive!

[jeffconn]

The "Virginian-Pilot Archives" Facebook page today has a series of pictures of the downtown Trailways depot. Nice looking 2 story building. Shame it met the wrecking ball.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Virginian-Pilot-Archives/176507505753256

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.399938333410171.84284.176507505753256&type=1

[skylinefan]

Church Street had some serious density in the 1930's:

 

[skylinefan]

Downtown Norfolk in 1970 where MacArthur Center now stands.

 

[Ghentite]

Granby Street in the 30's.  

 

http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/08/throwback-thursday-granby-street-1930s.html

 

There've actually been some folks recently pushing to bring back the arch lighting to Granby St, since the lights strung back and forth during the Meet, Greet and Imagine event last year was such a success.

[zeppelin14]

This is definitly before the 1930s. It is probably 1918-1919 because of the welcome home banners from the war. Plus the cars look more like the 1910 decade models.

[Ghentite]

I would agree but because NRHA gave me permission to use these photos and this is what they have as the date, I didn't want to misquote them.

 

http://nrha.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Historical/G0000sjxf1Fx4fek/I0000nPmktPJgJZc