Richmond Region Transportation

[Hike]

9 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

It's definitely needed and wouldn't be that hard to do all things considered. Just the distance and building the dedicated lanes could be pretty expensive (although the route between Willow Lawn and Short Pump wont' be cheap either and it's a pretty long schlep!  QUESTION: Can U.S. 60 between the city and Sandston handle dedicated BRT lanes? Doesn't it narrow to two lanes in places - or has that been widened to four lanes the entire length between the city and the airport?

Unfortunately - much as we all here would likely agree how much it is needed - I have a feeling from GRTC's view - if you prioritized a "pecking order" of new buildout for the PULSE system it would be:

1.) North/South line

2.) Short Pump extension

3.) Airport extension

The airport extension could leave Rocketts landing and follow the river, is that RT 60 or RT 5? I feel like the airport option is more shuttle than a typical bus route as there’s less housing, apartments, retail going east to continue to pick up and drop off passengers.

[blopp1234]

9 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

It's definitely needed and wouldn't be that hard to do all things considered. Just the distance and building the dedicated lanes could be pretty expensive (although the route between Willow Lawn and Short Pump wont' be cheap either and it's a pretty long schlep!  QUESTION: Can U.S. 60 between the city and Sandston handle dedicated BRT lanes? Doesn't it narrow to two lanes in places - or has that been widened to four lanes the entire length between the city and the airport?

Unfortunately - much as we all here would likely agree how much it is needed - I have a feeling from GRTC's view - if you prioritized a "pecking order" of new buildout for the PULSE system it would be:

1.) North/South line

2.) Short Pump extension

3.) Airport extension

Used to drive on U.S. 60 almost everyday and while most of it has room for dedicated BRT lanes, there are areas, especially near the Darby town road intersection, where there isn’t any room to add another lane. Don’t get me wrong they could do mixed traffic BRT, but then it becomes far less effective. Frequent local bus service would probably work better for this area due to the right of way being extremely narrow in places.

My thinking for accessing the airport would be regional rail. Maybe buy 2-4 train sets and work with CSX to get trains running every 15 minutes between Main Street Station and the airport. Only about 10 freight trains per day use those tracks so there likely wouldn’t need to be many infrastructure upgrades, outside of upgrading the turnout and half mile of track between the CSX mainline and the airport station. Would also be quicker than BRT and would make it easy for people traveling to RVA to access downtown.

 

Very exciting that Henrico has fully hopped on board with BRT and wants to expand it. Would be great with we had spurs off the broad street line to staples mill station, Lewis Gunter and North Church Hill.

[123fakestreet]

1 hour ago, I miss RVA said:

Airport extension

Problem with that is there is NOTHING between Rocketts and the airport, a lot of effort to extend BRT that far with nothing in between.  I've been saying for years PULSE needs to connect to the airport, but it should just be an express shuttle from the last stop at Rocketts direct to the airport. It would technically be a separate route than the PULSE.

 

They could do a similar thing at the other end going from Willow Lawn to Short Pump.  Effectively extend the PULSE reach but no BRT lanes and stations, saving a ton of money (that can go to a N/S route instead)

Edited December 7, 2022 by 123fakestreet

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, blopp1234 said:

My thinking for accessing the airport would be regional rail. Maybe buy 2-4 train sets and work with CSX to get trains running every 15 minutes between Main Street Station and the airport. Only about 10 freight trains per day use those tracks so there likely wouldn’t need to be many infrastructure upgrades, outside of upgrading the turnout and half mile of track between the CSX mainline and the airport station. Would also be quicker than BRT and would make it easy for people traveling to RVA to access downtown.

 

Home run, @blopp1234!!!!

Wanna know what's scary? This actually could work!! The tracks are already ALL THERE - including a terminus RIGHT ACROSS AIPORT DRIVE from the airport itself. Mind you - there IS a business - Productivity, Inc., and a portion of their property would need to be purchased to accommodate where a small passenger terminal/platform could be built - and there would need to be a way to ferry passengers to/from said rail station and the airport terminal building (shuttles running every 10-15 minutes from a designated point/points in front of both upper/lower levels for departures and arrivals would probably be the most cost-effective) - but by George, the tracks are already there! The spur line breaks off of the main east-west CSX main line that already carries Amtrak through Main Street station and runs north directly parallel to and directly next to Airport Drive. And it stops at Norman Road - which is right at the main entrance to the terminal.

Getting things worked out with CSX would take some work. And, as you said, the primary costs would be infrastructure and track upgrades, building a station at the airport and purchasing (and maintaining) rolling stock (plus operations staff, etc.), getting a shuttle service in place...  Just doing some very rough guesstimating - the trip from the rail platform at the airport to Main Street Station would be roughly (give or take) 7 miles each way. The segments break down thusly:

Rail platform to CSX main line - between 1/2 and 3/4 mile

Spur line split point to CSX Fulton Yards - 4 to 4.5 miles (depending on where we're measuring)

Fulton Yards to Main Street Station - approx 1.6 miles 

BIG QUESTION: HOW/WHERE do trains turn around at MSS and at the airport train platform? Would the trains be functionally bi-directional - and if so, how does that work with a single-track spur line running from the CSX main to the airport rail platform? Is there additional track space for switching at MSS that could allow inbound and outbound trains to access separate platforms or sides of the station?

Obviously things like that would have to be worked out - but MAN OH MANISCHEWITZ!!! THIS COULD WORK!!!

Okay -- LOTS of pictures - bear with me...

1.) Possible location of the rail platform

 

2.) CSX Main Line - Airport Spur Line split

 

3.) Bigger picture - From airport rail station to CSX Fulton Yards

 

4.) Location of airport rail station at Norman Road and Airport Drive

 

 

5.) Location is DIRECTLY ACROSS from the MAIN ENTRANCE to the airport terminal

Edited December 7, 2022 by I miss RVA

[I miss RVA]

Just a follow up to the idea of connecting the airport with downtown using existing heavy rail: 

Because it would seem that ridership might be relatively limited, particularly in the beginning, It makes the most sense to use the  "smallest" rolling stock possible. Such a small train should be  something pretty simple - maybe a three-car train that's bi-directional - and perhaps electric powered (there are plenty of commuter systems in the country that are electric, rather then diesel, particularly in the Northeast and her in portions of metropolitan Chicagoland.) I found this online and think something along this line could serve such a system pretty well. Perhaps get two sets of these so that two trains would be in service at any one time. Am guessing trains would roll every 20-30 minutes perhaps?

Not sure how much adding electric capability would cost - but given a lot of climate-friendly components of infrastructure legislation, perhaps there would be a nice chunk of federal funding available as the country continues to shift more toward renewable energy sources. I'd love to see these kinds of short trains - three-car sets -- running back and forth from the airport to Main Street Station each day.

Check it out!

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Shakman]

I would say light rail to RIC would work best.  However, the rail station has to be at the terminal in order to have steady ridership.  If not, people will still drive.  There's enough space between the parking garages and the departures /arrivals access roadway for a station.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Shakman

[wrldcoupe4]

ideally you could get it to the pie wedge between the parking decks, but you'd probably have to elevate the rail as it runs along Airport Drive to clear all of the ground level roadways and have a station at the gate/ticketing level.

[Flood Zone]

The inventiveness and imagination of the posters are why I’m here. 
 

But until the airport grounds or the roadways leading to the airport become over saturated with people/cars to the point of requiring action, no option beyond perhaps GRTC shuttle bus from Main Street Station or whatnot is realistic or financially feasible.

[I miss RVA]

4 hours ago, Flood Zone said:

The inventiveness and imagination of the posters are why I’m here. 
 

But until the airport grounds or the roadways leading to the airport become over saturated with people/cars to the point of requiring action, no option beyond perhaps GRTC shuttle bus from Main Street Station or whatnot is realistic or financially feasible.

Well said, @Flood Zoneon both points! We are an inventive & imaginative bunch on here, to say the least!  Like Elvis sang - "If I can dream... " 

To your second point: unfortunately, this is how it's going to be probably for as long as most of us in this community are alive. We could -- and in truth, probably should -- get a GRTC shuttle between the airport and Main Street Station  - but as you said, it's not like airport drive or the circular roadways in front of the terminal are clogged with traffic (you should see O'Hare here in Chicago - HOHH-LEEE-MOH-LEEEEEE!!! It is a complete and total ZOO day AND night...) 

Much as we'd love to dream about some kind of rail connect to the city - I don't see much of anything developing as long as our annual passenger traffic is where it is now - in the 4M to 4.5M per year area. Get us into double digits and that would be a game changer - but I've a feeling we're a long way from double-digit traffic figures at RIC. I hope and pray I'm wrong about this - but given where we are now - i'd say that if we get annual traffic up to not quite double where we are now - as in, say, 7M to 7.5M annually by 2030, we'll REALLY be doing something - and I think, quite frankly, it's going to take a LOT to get us to that level in seven years. Which is sad. Again, I hope and pray I'm wrong on this. Mind you - CoStar bringing an additional 2,000-3,000 jobs here in the next handful of years will help. Ditto LEGO's new factory. And ANY headway that can be made via folks like the Greater Richmond Partnership, the governor's office, the city's economic development office, the mayor's office, etc., plus other civic, government and business organizations when it comes to recruitment of and securing of company relocations to RVA from out of state (or even in-state, just out of market) will go a long way toward boosting RIC's performance if for no other reason, there will be increased need from a (hopefully rapidly) growing business community - as well as RVA emerging as a hot market in terms of population growth. (Jesus - it always seems to come back to RVA's nemesis - "market size".)

Again - I really do hope I'm wrong on thinking we won't come close to doubling passenger traffic at RIC in the next seven years - but I think it's a big leap/big reach - and we're gonna have to work awfully hard to make it happen.

Edited December 8, 2022 by I miss RVA

[Wahoo 07]

While I generally agree that RIC's passenger volume doesn't support a fixed rail link at present, if that part of Henrico experiences significant high-density growth, there could be enough people there to merit a BRT/rail option.   Unless something unforeseen happens with RIC's numbers (which would be fantastic), any rail connection would require a lot of population growth around the airport too.

[123fakestreet]

55 minutes ago, Wahoo 07 said:

While I generally agree that RIC's passenger volume doesn't support a fixed rail link at present, if that part of Henrico experiences significant high-density growth, there could be enough people there to merit a BRT/rail option.   Unless something unforeseen happens with RIC's numbers (which would be fantastic), any rail connection would require a lot of population growth around the airport too.

I hate to crap on people because its a fun exercise to "what if" (I did the same on here with re-routing the interstates a while ago) but there is never going to be BRT or light rail out to the airport.  There's never going to be light rail in Richmond period, and BRT is designed for dense urban corridors like Broad St, makes no sense to have it go through rural areas in east Henrico. The best we can hope for is a regular airport shuttle route from Rocketts or Main St station.

[plain]

On 12/7/2022 at 3:23 PM, I miss RVA said:

It's definitely needed and wouldn't be that hard to do all things considered. Just the distance and building the dedicated lanes could be pretty expensive (although the route between Willow Lawn and Short Pump wont' be cheap either and it's a pretty long schlep!  QUESTION: Can U.S. 60 between the city and Sandston handle dedicated BRT lanes? Doesn't it narrow to two lanes in places - or has that been widened to four lanes the entire length between the city and the airport?

Unfortunately - much as we all here would likely agree how much it is needed - I have a feeling from GRTC's view - if you prioritized a "pecking order" of new buildout for the PULSE system it would be:

1.) North/South line

2.) Short Pump extension

3.) Airport extension

It's still 2 lanes most of the way between the city and Laburnum. However, the only true squeeze is between Government Rd and the county line. The portion in the county is actually 3 lanes (center turn lane) and looks to have room for expansion. To get from Rockett's Landing I would assume it would take the unnumbered portion of Williamsburg Rd through Fulton, which is 2 lanes but is wide (parking on both sides) until the intersection with Government Rd.

[plain]

Also, just in case anyone doesn't know:

 

Airport: GRTC already have busses serving it, the 7A and 7B. These busses use different routes between the airport and the intersection of Nine Mile & Laburnum but when combined there is a bus leaving the airport to downtown every 30 minutes. Downside is it takes a while to reach downtown (especially leaving on the 7B). If there was any kind of bus connecting directly from Rockett's to the Airport, it would indeed be faster than what's currently available.

 

Short Pump: the 19 runs from Willow Lawn (end of current Pulse Line) to well past Short Pump Town Center, and it runs every 30 minutes. While this is great, here's the obvious downside: it has to go through Short Pump, which means it gets bogged down in traffic a lot. While mixed traffic is indeed the current situation west of I-195, the dedicated lanes really needs to be extended if the Pulse really does get out to the deep West End.

[I miss RVA]

3 hours ago, 123fakestreet said:

I hate to crap on people because its a fun exercise to "what if" (I did the same on here with re-routing the interstates a while ago) but there is never going to be BRT or light rail out to the airport.  There's never going to be light rail in Richmond period, and BRT is designed for dense urban corridors like Broad St, makes no sense to have it go through rural areas in east Henrico. The best we can hope for is a regular airport shuttle route from Rocketts or Main St station.

Unfortunately, methinks you're right on the money. I will add just one corollary to your point: "not in our lifetime". I'm not willing to concede "never" for RVA to ever develop light rail - but I highly doubt any of us in this community will be walking the earth the day it ever comes to pass. I could live to be 100 (and I just turned 60) and I'm sure I won't ever see it.

It's nice to dream, though. 

Re: BRT - the city's priority list has the north-south route and the Short Pump extension 1 and 2, I'd be willing to bet.

[Icetera]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:46 AM, 123fakestreet said:

I hate to crap on people because its a fun exercise to "what if" (I did the same on here with re-routing the interstates a while ago) but there is never going to be BRT or light rail out to the airport.  There's never going to be light rail in Richmond period, and BRT is designed for dense urban corridors like Broad St, makes no sense to have it go through rural areas in east Henrico. The best we can hope for is a regular airport shuttle route from Rocketts or Main St station.

The BRT (and light rail studies prior) has had intentions of extending to Short Pump and the Airport since its inception, Short Pump being phased in first.  RT. 60 in Eastern Henrico is as dense (if not more so) as most portions of Midlothian, Hull, and Richmond Hwy, corridors currently in consideration for BRT expansion.  There is certainly nothing rural about this stretch and job centers both East and South of the airport are experiencing major development.  Regardless of BRT plans, the stretch from Government Rd. to Glen Alden Dr. needs serious improvements to accommodate current traffic which clearly exceeds the road's design (the Williamsburg/Charles City/Brittles intersection is a major bottleneck).  There are many underdeveloped properties on this stretch that could benefit from higher density housing with better transit access.  Without any alternatives, new growth in Eastern Henrico is forced to travel through Shockoe Bottom which is becoming more and more congested, ultimately creating delays on the Pulse that affect the entire line.

Also note that the latest RIC masterplan included a rail station along Airport Drive.

[I miss RVA]

55 minutes ago, Icetera said:

Also note that the latest RIC masterplan included a rail station along Airport Drive.

Sure enough, it does! The master plan locates the rail station just south and east of the proposed location for Terminal 2 and Concourse C

 

[eandslee]

7 minutes ago, I miss RVA said:

Sure enough, it does! The master plan locates the rail station just south and east of the proposed location for Terminal 2 and Concourse C

 

...and it looks like the rail line is extended from the current terminus to all the way up to about number 22 on the diagram (right in the middle - a good location for a station).  It would be better if the station were located closer to the main terminal, but not sure how difficult that would be.

[I miss RVA]

30 minutes ago, eandslee said:

...and it looks like the rail line is extended from the current terminus to all the way up to about number 22 on the diagram (right in the middle - a good location for a station).  It would be better if the station were located closer to the main terminal, but not sure how difficult that would be.

That's the most logical place for it. While I agree, it would be nice to have it IN the terminal, I don't see how that happens without running it underground or on an elevated platform that follows the path of the semi-circular roadways to/from the terminal. Just getting the location they have proposed will be difficult enough because of the reticence to spend the money to make something like that happen. Getting it there (at location 22) may be the best we can get at this point.

[eandslee]

Interesting article about the Pulse's expansion into Henrico.  Ironically, the article comes from Greater Greater Washington (which does technically include Richmond):

https://ggwash.org/view/87673/richmond-plans-first-extension-of-its-pulse-bus-rapid-transit

 

[I miss RVA]

46 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Interesting article about the Pulse's expansion into Henrico.  Ironically, the article comes from Greater Greater Washington (which does technically include Richmond):

https://ggwash.org/view/87673/richmond-plans-first-extension-of-its-pulse-bus-rapid-transit

 

Really good article - chock full of solid info and details.

Interesting that, with the arrival of the PULSE line in Short Pump and the completion of the new Sheltering Arms rehab facility about a mile to the west, the GRTC local Route 19 could actually be extended farther west into Goochland - which according to the article would mark the first time that a local GRTC route was extended into one of the metro area's six outer counties.

And - as has been mentioned countless times on here previously - where the extension of public/rapid transit actually creates the momentum and impetus for development (as opposed to the other way around) note the following from the article about what the county is doing in response to even just the premise that the PULSE line will be extended to Short Pump:

Currently, Henrico County is working on its first comprehensive plan update in decades with an eye towards allowing more housing and retail along its top transit corridors. Ensuring all of Broad Street out to Short Pump is finally served by sidewalks is a key component.

That says a lot! Glad to see things moving forward.

 

[I miss RVA]

GRTC has received $4 million from the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transit to develop a three-year microtransit program designed to connect riders in more rural or suburban areas with existing high-frequency fixed GRTC routes when the program is launched in the fall of 2023, serving riders in parts of Chesterfield, Henrico, New Kent, Powhatan and Ashland. There are five additional zones that could be added down the road as the pilot program progresses.

From Monday's Richmond Times-Dispatch:  

https://richmond.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/grtc-gets-4-million-for-on-demand-transit-services/article_28384617-b804-5b12-a2d0-bad49c96f3b2.html

 

[keo091]

There's an online traffic survey being conducted right now to potentially help ease traffic in the Short Pump area that closes Jan. 2nd. Make sure your voices are heard! Option 4 looks to be the best option to me. Major improvements at the current I-64/250 interchange and it includes a new diverging diamond interchange further west at N. Gayton! The link to the survey at the bottom of the article.

https://www.nbc12.com/2022/12/19/henrico-county-leaders-release-online-survey-ease-short-pump-traffic/

Edited December 20, 2022 by keo091

[eandslee]

Saw this in Facebook for those interested:

 

[eandslee]

Photos of the construction of the new GRTC downtown transfer station.  Photos came from the GRTC Twitter page:

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by eandslee

[Hike]

2 hours ago, eandslee said:

Photos of the construction of the new GRTC downtown transfer station.  Photos came from the GRTC Twitter page:

 

Thanks for finding and posting these, had forgotten all about this! I know we want this to be built out by something other than what is basically a big parking lot, but seeing this seems like a start and in a location that really needed to be cleaned up and a transfer station is long overdue.