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Seriously - that's my only real regret from this boom. Otherwise, I think we really got our money's worth (with commuter rail and the PAC still pending...) if you will.

...alright, one more dying/basically dead. We'll see if this City can pull it's $&(^ together and manage not to muck up commuter rail.

Edited by uncreativeusername
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Can't help but wonder how it would look with Tradition Towers in there...

what could've been... I keep saying that TT was the key to really take DT over the top to the next level. I really though TT and Verde's twins were getting built. Instead, none of them got built. Verde didn't really fit. But TT did for its location.

However, the last thing I heard was a group of investors looking to buy the project and get it going again. it could happen. but not for at least 2 years I would say.

At least the OCCC is getting a big boost with Hilton and Peabody#2 right nextdoor.

FYI, for anyone who hasn't driven by the Events Center lately, this thing is huge. Take the Anderson St. ramp from WB I-4... it's on its 3rd level right now, from the outside, and the bleachers don't even look to be halfway up yet. This is going to be massive.

I will snag a pic as soon as I can.

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I agree with the comparison to St. Pete. I envision Parramore as a historical district and totally renovated like Harlem. It should maintain it's heritage but be similar to College Park, Thornton Park,etc. Parramore is a huge chunk of downtown!

I think our closest competition, comparing apples to apples, is St. Pete, which has also capitalized on a downtown ignored from the late 60's through the 80's, and with a significant residential component close at hand. While we have the county seat and more businesses, St. Pete has done an excellent job of promoting the USF/St. Pete campus as well as St. Pete College (the former juco which is now offering four year degrees), and of course its stunning location surrounded by water.

Interestingly, and this ties into what I think many may have missed in Parramore, is that the resurgence of both downtown O-town and downtown St. Pete, originating in many ways from the bottom up, by residents who moved back into town and began fixing things up, then followed by small business owners who did the same. Those are the folks, because of their great passion and direct investment in the community, bring the cachet and the success that are later used by the larger developers.

Other places, downtown Tampa being an excellent example, that have relied primarily on attracting larger developments, have not seen the success. There are a lot of big buildings and plans, but there are not the folks who are building a liveable community every day from street level. That, too, has, I believe been a problem in Parramore - there were too many industrial properties and rental properties with absentee landlords for the area to develop stakeholders who would turn it around. Compare that with the west side of downtown Winter Park for another example. The resurgence of South Beach followed a similar pattern.

When it's done the right way, it sticks. Try to start by throwing money at the top and you often end up with a lot of drive by buildings.

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I agree with the comparison to St. Pete. I envision Parramore as a historical district and totally renovated like Harlem. It should maintain it's heritage but be similar to College Park, Thornton Park,etc. Parramore is a huge chunk of downtown!

I think our closest competition, comparing apples to apples, is St. Pete, which has also capitalized on a downtown ignored from the late 60's through the 80's, and with a significant residential component close at hand. While we have the county seat and more businesses, St. Pete has done an excellent job of promoting the USF/St. Pete campus as well as St. Pete College (the former juco which is now offering four year degrees), and of course its stunning location surrounded by water.

Interestingly, and this ties into what I think many may have missed in Parramore, is that the resurgence of both downtown O-town and downtown St. Pete, originating in many ways from the bottom up, by residents who moved back into town and began fixing things up, then followed by small business owners who did the same. Those are the folks, because of their great passion and direct investment in the community, bring the cachet and the success that are later used by the larger developers.

Other places, downtown Tampa being an excellent example, that have relied primarily on attracting larger developments, have not seen the success. There are a lot of big buildings and plans, but there are not the folks who are building a liveable community every day from street level. That, too, has, I believe been a problem in Parramore - there were too many industrial properties and rental properties with absentee landlords for the area to develop stakeholders who would turn it around. Compare that with the west side of downtown Winter Park for another example. The resurgence of South Beach followed a similar pattern.

When it's done the right way, it sticks. Try to start by throwing money at the top and you often end up with a lot of drive by buildings.

Excellent post! I could not agree with you more. You are absolutely right that the key for any downtown resurgence is vision and patience of the few who are willing to move back and push the wagon until the momentum gets going. I still hold on to hope that one day Parramore Street will return to it's former glory and be a historic area with Jazz Bars, Art displays and dining.

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Excellent post! I could not agree with you more. You are absolutely right that the key for any downtown resurgence is vision and patience of the few who are willing to move back and push the wagon until the momentum gets going. I still hold on to hope that one day Parramore Street will return to it's former glory and be a historic area with Jazz Bars, Art displays and dining.

I'm befuddled on why Paramore struggles.

* It has an incredible location. Right by 408 & I-4, walk to downtown.

* Incredibly low property values

* Further away from the executive airport so theoretically you could build a little higher

* tax incentives

I'm surprised no developer has bought up pieces of land.

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I'm befuddled on why Paramore struggles.

* It has an incredible location. Right by 408 & I-4, walk to downtown.

* Incredibly low property values

* Further away from the executive airport so theoretically you could build a little higher

* tax incentives

I'm surprised no developer has bought up pieces of land.

I think zoning may be a problem. I know that there are several warehouses and factories in the Paramore/Callahan Neighborhood. Also, crime is still a problem there, which would likely keep developers out--especially in this economy. I think that maintaining the character of a neighborhood while gentrifying it is a difficult endeavor in a thriving economy, but now that development is stagnant it is all the more challenging to provide affordable housing while realizing a return on one's investment.

That said, development seem to be spurting-up in the area. Besides the new Events Center, I recently saw a new development in the southern part of the neighborhood near Gore st. The city tore down the Carver Court projects that were there several years ago and have now replaced it with a multistory development. I would love to see Paramore revitalized, but such development should be done with the intent of maintaining its character as the oldest historically black neighborhood in the city.

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I would love to see Paramore revitalized, but such development should be done with the intent of maintaining its character as the oldest historically black neighborhood in the city.

I get what you're saying, but really? Aside from a few historic structures, what character remains? Don't you think that all this "let's preserve the neighborhood" talk has actually stalled the revitalization of Parramore? I don't wish to see long time residents ran out of Parramore, but Iam interested in seeing a vibrant, thriving urban core rise in this location that extends the CBD West. If we can have it both ways, great!

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I went out for an easy jog this afternoon and I when I came back around the northeast side of Lake Ivanhoe, I saw such a beautiful thing... so I got on my scooter and headed back into downtown before sunset.

This is from Central just in front of the new firehouse. Tomorrow night... Go Magic!!! Go Black Magic!!!

IMG_4490.jpg

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Developers don't revitalize a neighborhood. Individuals do. That's where Orlando struggles - it is so biased towards "developers" that it's hard to get the Thorton Parks to build up from the grassroots level. If it doesn't start form the grassroots, no one takes a stake in the growth and no one is willing to care enough to see that it happens. If anything the problem is there are too many developers just sitting on land in that district, when that needs to go out to individuals who will do something with it.

But there is also no point, and certainly no benefit, in expanding the core outwards. Most urban cores hardly thrive - they are just geographical markers and business drivers to allow the rest of the city to start t develop. Fill in the CBD first, then worry about expanding it. Let Parramore become a neighborhood, close to the CBD, that can feed the core, and vice versa.

There should be a group that would walk through the neighborhood, mark which buildings are "historic" work on getting them fixed up, any other property in the neighborhood should be allowed to be sold to developers, individuals, etc. and they should be allowed to rebuild a house, apartment complex, condo, stores....whatever. They would have to be built based on certain guidelines (there would have to be a "theme" to the neighborhood, because I don't see any cohesive makeup of the area. Like College Park has it's original bungalows, etc.) The neighborhood center on Parramore Ave doesn't really have anything special about it, maybe a historical church or two. They need to build a "Wellsley" type building on one of the corners there, maybe not as high priced and so many units available for low income. Instead of Orlando creeping in from the East, there needs to be something in the center, and something substantial to the west. Maybe the Citrus Bowl? And the trolley, or Lymmo needs to go down Church to the point in the west. It has to happen someday. Tampa made a bold initiative when the built the Trolley into Ybor to Channelside to the CBD. The Ybor neighborhood in between was very shady and rough, but now you see the tiny little houses being renovated and preserved, while at the same time large apartment/condo developments have demolished a lot of the undesirable spots in the neighborhood. It still may be a little shady living there, but bold pioneers (the Gays) are working on it to make it livable for everyone. If some pioneers would be bold enough to move in and renovate, others will follow, just like Thornton Park or Colonialtown. It seems relatively safe near Cityside Apts, and that new park took out a big chunk of undesirable area. Some large neighborhood signs should be put in at the entrance ways into the neighborhood to make it seem like an exciting place to be. Who knows, Parramore Ave, could be a nightlife center with trendy restaurants and jazz clubs, etc., just like what happened toThornton Park and Westside Winter Park. Whew! 'Nuff said!

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