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2 hours ago, orlandoguy said:

For those of us who have been self-quarantining for 5+ weeks now, the next drive on I-4 is going to feel a whole lot different in that area.

I haven't actually driven on I-4 since well before the Ultimate project even began.

Probably been a good 6 years now, since around 2012.

I think I rode as a passenger once after it began, sometime around 2014 or 2015.

I probably won't again until after it's complete.

That should REALLY feel different. 

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On 2/1/2020 at 12:57 AM, nite owℓ said:

These buildings were much better looking than the McCrory-Woolworth buildings and yet I only hear crickets about their demise... Barnett Plaza and CNA are unattractive buildings & poorly designed at street level IMO!

  To quote myself (because I'm petty :rolleyes:):

 

 

That seems like a false choice. I don’t see why any of these buildings merited demolition. As a collective whole they would have made for a nice stretch of buildings today. Now...gone.

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And, it will get worse. From the first week of this administration we learned this mayor could care less about the city’s history.

A historic district isn’t a static thing - you have to actively care about it to make it work. We know this because we saw places like Miami Beach faced with the same choice.

The developers were ready to bulldoze the deco district just like Buddy did with the Jaymont Block. Thank God there were people powerful enough to stop it. People who cared more about their city than about kowtowing to any well-heeled developer who flashed an Amex Black card.

It’s probably not an accident either that downtown Kissimmee wasn’t saved until long after Buddy left town.

We know that in Winter Garden two of the pioneer citrus families, the Ropers and the Chicones, insisted that downtown be saved. Today, before anything happens on Plant St., they have to win approval from the city manager and commission who insist on following the historic vision.

New Smyrna Beach did something similar (as did DeLand). Daytona acted like Buddy and we see how well that’s gone.

Ironically, Orlando was the first to realize how special our downtown could be. Those other cities saw what Orlando was doing in the ‘80’s as a model.

Bottom line: Mayor Bill set things in place and Glenda followed along until the battle over light rail destroyed her last two years in office.

i and others are culpable because we believed that Buddy, as Mayor Bill’s protege and as someone who hewed the Democratic line on human rights issues, that he believed. He could have cared less (it makes sense: a big tent on diversity costs little to developers these days). Buddy is a Bloomberg Democrat: all that matters is the money.

How can we be so sure: after 17 years, no one in the administration, especially including Buddy, has said a word publicly about how the historic district can thrive and move into the future. 

Maybe our past means nothing to you. If not, you sure got the right mayor. Because, through 17 years of inaction and demolition, we know Buddy could care less.

Edited by spenser1058
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It’s only a dead horse if you, like Buddy, could care less about the historic core. Quite apart from the Jaymont Block, which is indeed gone and not coming back, the rest of the district has endured 17 years of demolition by neglect.

And then you’ll come along and say, “well, they were too far gone anyway.” And niteowl will say, “you should have done something before it was too late! The State Bank and Ivey’s buildings looked a lot better than McCrory’s.”

Absolutely no one would have dared to pull the fast one Lincoln has in Mayor Bill or Mayor Glenda’s time. With Buddy, it’s just “meh, who cares, go ahead and erect a building as nondescript as Truist or as downright ugly as the piano keys”.And so it will go, block by block, until all that’s left are a sea of ugly apartment buildings with visors.

Go back and take a look at the 1897 courthouse sometime. It was torn down for the oh-so-modern Courthouse Annex in 1957. Almost from the day the new building was erected people were incensed at how ugly it was and were livid we tore down our beautiful red brick courthouse. Meanwhile, the Annex was so loathed it was leveled as soon as it was 30 years old and they could justify tearing it down. What’s left is one of the transients’ favorite parks.

No sir, we deserve better than that. So go ahead and get your good buddyBuddy to let you drive the bulldozer down Orange Avenue, because it ain’t over ‘til it’s over. 

Edited by spenser1058
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16 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

It’s only a dead horse if you, like Buddy, could care less about the historic core. Quite apart from the Jaymont Block, which is indeed gone and not coming back, the rest of the district has endured 17 years of demolition by neglect.

And then you’ll come along and say, “well, they were too far gone anyway.” And niteowl will say, “you should have done something before it was too late! The State Bank and Ivey’s buildings looked a lot better than McCrory’s.”

Absolutely no one would have dared to pull the fast one Lincoln has in Mayor Bill or Mayor Glenda’s time. With Buddy, it’s just “meh, who cares, go ahead and erect a building as nondescript as Truist or as downright ugly as the piano keys”.And so it will go, block by block, until all that’s left are a sea of ugly apartment buildings with visors.

Go back and take a look at the 1897 courthouse sometime. It was torn down for the oh-so-modern Courthouse Annex in 1957. Almost from the day the new building was erected people were incensed at how ugly it was and were livid we tore down our beautiful red brick courthouse. Meanwhile, the Annex was so loathed it was leveled as soon as it was 30 years old and they could justify tearing it down. What’s left is one of the transients’ favorite parks.

No sir, we deserve better than that. So go ahead and get your good buddyBuddy to let you drive the bulldozer down Orange Avenue, because it ain’t over ‘til it’s over. 

The facade of McCrory’s was definitely not in disrepair when it was demolished and it was in the process of being saved and redeveloped before Dyer. There were Miami Beach streamline moderne buildings as late as the mid-90s held up with support beams and renovated.

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9 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

It’s only a dead horse if you, like Buddy, could care less about the historic core. Quite apart from the Jaymont Block, which is indeed gone and not coming back, the rest of the district has endured 17 years of demolition by neglect.

And then you’ll come along and say, “well, they were too far gone anyway.” And niteowl will say, “you should have done something before it was too late! The State Bank and Ivey’s buildings looked a lot better than McCrory’s.”

Absolutely no one would have dared to pull the fast one Lincoln has in Mayor Bill or Mayor Glenda’s time. With Buddy, it’s just “meh, who cares, go ahead and erect a building as nondescript as Truist or as downright ugly as the piano keys”.And so it will go, block by block, until all that’s left are a sea of ugly apartment buildings with visors.

Go back and take a look at the 1897 courthouse sometime. It was torn down for the oh-so-modern Courthouse Annex in 1957. Almost from the day the new building was erected people were incensed at how ugly it was and were livid we tore down our beautiful red brick courthouse. Meanwhile, the Annex was so loathed it was leveled as soon as it was 30 years old and they could justify tearing it down. What’s left is one of the transients’ favorite parks.

No sir, we deserve better than that. So go ahead and get your good buddyBuddy to let you drive the bulldozer down Orange Avenue, because it ain’t over ‘til it’s over. 

:yawn:  Wake me up when you're finished. 

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8 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

The facade of McCrory’s was definitely not in disrepair when it was demolished and it was in the process of being saved and redeveloped before Dyer. There were Miami Beach streamline moderne buildings as late as the mid-90s held up with support beams and renovated.

Beside the point.

In America the gub'mint can't go out and rope a developer then force them  by decree, to purchase a parcel of land, design and build a highrise, mixed use project on it, force them to incorporate two existing cheesy, ratty looking old store fronts currently occupying the site into the project, whether they want to or not and irregardless of whether or not they visually blend into the design, all for the sole purpose of appeasing a small minority of residents who seem to think every building that was built prior to 1970 is some sort of "historic" gem that needs to be saved no matter how architecturally insignificant it is.

In real world America, developers and investors are free to decide on which projects they choose to undertake based on criteria such as cost, profit potential, risk, feasibility, etc, etc. Placing a requirement that a couple of run down trash heap buildings be saved and incorporated into any design proposal and even influence the style of the architecture, would have resulted in nobody wanting to touch it with a 10 ft pole and we'd still have a run down block of two story buildings either sitting there empty or housing tattoo parlors.

Thank-you Mayor Dyer for not bowing to political correctness and instead, doing what was best for the city by making a difficult decision regardless of the criticism you knew you'd face from a loud, vocal minority.

Good job.  :thumbsup: 

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1 hour ago, prahaboheme said:

Just to be clear, everything you said is complete garbage. Also, it’s tiresome.

Developers are not “free” to do whatever they want in many cities. That includes the one that you live in, by the way.

Wake me up when YOU’RE done.

Just to be clear... you are as usual, missing the point.

Obviously developers are not "free to do whatever they want".

I've already got that little bit of "keen insight" filed under "Duh, No kidding", but thanks just the same.  :thumbsup:

But... by the same token, developers ARE free to DO NOTHING, and THAT is the point.

NOTHING is what we'd likely have on that block today if the city hadn't decided to ignore the protesters and move forward rather than sit in stagnation just to make a small minority happy.

Yes, we'd still have your precious rat infested, run down shrines to whichever cause they represent to you, but that's all we'd have there.

And to be honest, IMO those two buildings should never have been built there to begin with. The fact that the best such a central and important block of downtown Orlando could muster was a couple of rinky-dink, two story drug stores rather than another Kress  or Metcalf or Angebilt, etc, is indicative of what a weak business magnet downtown Orlando has traditionally been compared to cities like Tampa, Jacksonville and Miami.

Had the buildings on that site been worth saving, I'm certain they'd still be there.

 

.

Edited by JFW657
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2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Just to be clear, everything you said is complete garbage. Also, it’s tiresome.

Developers are not “free” to do whatever they want in many cities. That includes the one that you live in, by the way.

Wake me up when YOU’RE done.

He's kinda right. 

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