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Raleigh's Fayetteville Street


ericurbanite

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In the picture, Bank of America is in the building on the left, One Hannover Square (the building you have labeled no. 4 in your post). What you are calling BOA (No. 1 in your post) is actually Two Hannover Square, whose ground floor is occupied by BB&T. So did you confuse the two banks, or did you reverse the labels in your diagram? I will note that One Hannover (BOA) has contained some plaza level retail off and on for at least 15 years. There was a camera/quick photo place off the lobby as recently as four years ago, and there used to be a USAirways reservation office just off the plaza, along with a succession of mediocre restaurants in some retail space on the Wilmington Street side (down one level from the plaza). I would be surprised if BOA is a sticking point in City Plaza, given their tremendous work in downtown Charlotte, and suspect BB&T across the way (small town bank, small town mentality) is a more likely suspect. Check your notes again...

DPK, thanks for posting that, and Jeff is on target, that BofA is #4 in the rendering (left) as this is looking south from the plaza down to to the performing arts ctr. Let's clear one thing up... the problems with One Hannover are with the owners, the Simpson Organization (TSO) of Atlanta, and not the tenants, BofA. Very important distinction.

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Since that view is F Street heading south toward Raleigh Memorial, and not north, it makes it easier to get the proper perspective.

1 is BB&T/Two Hannover, which seems happy to have a whole lot of nothing in its lobby. I don't know if they own their building, but I think BB&T is the majority/sole tenant. There are conference rooms on the second floor from F Street level and some "stores" one floor below on the Salsibury side -- Cafe Carolina outpost, deli counter, small needs store for Sheraton hotel guests -- but nothing facing the plaza. They are relatively small town-ish -- founded in Wilson, now based in the Triad -- and don't "get" the big city thing.

2 is the Marriott City Center hotel, though the pickup/dropoff looks different than the current construction site. It is good to (somewhat) confirm that a coffee shop will be there, and Starbucks may be a sign that downtown has reached a certain level. Though they already have a kiosk (with horrible hours) in the Sheraton lobby just north of 6. There will probalby be a restaurant at F Street level towards Memorial Auditorium.

3 is Charter Square/Site One. I've always wondered why Rocky keeps showing up, but now it kinda makes sense with hockey vs. rocky and has yet to be changed. It is a 1.5 years + away from opening, so anything could happen there.

4 is One Hannover/BoA. As Chief said, it isn't owned by BoA, and the whole City Square plans have to be approved by the landlord. There is a mini-mart on the F Street side closest to Site 1, and last time I was by there, they were rennovating the lobby for a restaurant space on the F Street side. It could give they city's restaurant space occupied by the Mint a run for its money.

5 is the corner of Progress Energy I, which has an RBC ATM machine, though I could see that moving a block north later this year. There is a restaurant in the middle of the building visible from the pedestrian access to Wilmington. I don't know if a bookstore could fit, but that would be pretty cool if it did.

6 is the hotel bar for the Sheraton with an outside patio. There is also a conference room that fronts the plaza behind that. The atrium is nice, though it could be reconfigured into a restaurant or retail pretty easily.

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Are the restaurant spaces on the Wilmington Street side of One Hannover Square currently occupied? In mid-90's there was a deli on one side and a pretty good pizza joint on the other to serve the lunch crowd, but the owners sold and the new owners ran it into the ground. Haven't been down there in a couple of years, but they were vacant at that point...

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Last time walked by the Wilmington Street side of One Hannover/BoA in November, they had a mini-gym that appeared to be for office tenants only in the right half and nothing in the left, adjacent to Site One. I think there was an "available" sign, and some tables and chairs left from the previous tenant. I ate there a couple of different tenants from 1997-2000, but they never caught on compared to Chick Fil A, Quiznos, Brass Grill, Coopers, etc. and did not last long.

The street level of the parking deck across Wilmington could be converted to retail as well. The limited daylight that corridor gets due to the parking deck and One Hannover will be even more diminished by Charter Square, but it could be a good side street/compliment to F Street proper. It is a weak link to the Moore Square/City market area that could easily be improved with a little investment.

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I walked by the future F Street/Lenoir intersection last night and the gates to "F Street" were open. In addition to the elevator area, there appears to also be an opening for stairs decending into the deck below. I got some pictures, but they aren't doing any good on my camera at home.

They have not started the Charter Square part of the deck, but a lot of the glass is in the hotel's first floor. No takers on the F Street side of BoA's lobby, or the Wilmington Street side, though I was paying more attention to the Site 1 pit.

The Mint seems to have a few more customers than I would expect for a Thursday, and there were a fair number of Carolina blue-wearing fans at F Street Tavern. The coffee shops -- Creama, Port City, and Morning Times were closed, but Crema is open till 10 on Fridays and Saturdays.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Nothing protects a building from future development unless a specific law is passed that does so for that specific building.

The Q/A in the paper with the NCSU design professor(for those who read it) was a little bit of hog dookie.....the interviewer asked something like is it unusual for Raleigh to have its old buildings preserved where so many other cities do not. The prof, went with it either to keep the interview simple or because he did not know any better, and said why yes, it is unusual we have our old buildings preserved. Well, we have about 5 or 6 chunks or parts of chunks of old building groups where just 50 or 60 years ago there were a dozen blocks completely ringed with old buildings....I am throwing numbers out there before, but of what was standing in the 1914 Sanborn Maps of commercial buildings, we probably have less than 20% left, probably less than 10%.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was walking around today and work is well underway on the Carolina Trust (230) and Mahler Bldgs (228) on the 200 block. Carter Worthy's building will be home to the Mahler Gallery, but the sign has been up for ~2 years... I hope things are going to finally take shape there. Empire owns the Carolina Trust Bldg, and I believe plans to renovate for a bar (basement), restaurant/retail space (1st flr) office (2/3), and possibly new digs for Greg Hatem (Empire does not list the 4th floor as available).

Across the street, Alphin Design-Build is redoing the old Hallmark shop, and I am told that there's a new bar going in--forget the name. Anyway, Will Alphin has some cool home designs... I hope the interior of the bar is anything close to being like those.

Hopefully these will open by later in the year, and will really contribute to the street night scene.

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The City Manager is pursuing condemnation of the plaza site--see the following on the council agenda:

2. City Plaza Agreement/Construction

A satisfactory conclusion to the City Plaza easement agreement with The Simpson Organization has not been able to be reached. It is necessary to confirm a construction date and budget in order to avoid further escalation in costs for this project. A report will be made at the Council meeting.

Recommendations:

a. Authorize the City Attorney to file a condemnation action to allow construction of the City Plaza improvements to begin on or about August 1, 2008;

b. Approve a budget amendment in the amount of $2,498,498 and a budget transfer in the amount of $2,157,264 to establish a budget for construction of City Plaza in the amount of $14,809,360, reflecting the value engineering recommendations of the designer;

c. Approve a budget amendment in the amount of $6,367,920 to move previously-approved funds for South End projects into the proper budget line item;

d. Authorize City Administration to conclude a contract amendment with Holder Construction Company to complete the work as designed.

e. Authorize City Administration to directly procure the light towers and bollards from local artist - Jim Gallucci, rather than as part of the normal bid process through the CMAR.

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I can't imagine the Simpson Organization is expecting a better deal. The City was already planning on putting $16+M in improvements on their land. What else could they ask for? The Simpson's are obviously not too invested in our downtown. We need a local company to have control over that prime real estate.

Maybe someone will come in and buy BofA from Simpson, and we can all avoid condemnation procedures. Am I an optimist or what?

If you want some good reading material, read all the comments that followed the wral.com article.

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I don't know if I'd consider WRAL's comments "good reading material", even including my comments. As I posted over there, the Simpson Group has not been a good steward of the plaza, with uncosmetic patching of the parking deck's roof, and bare minimum maintenance on the rest of the space.

A N&O's blog has an update on the contents of City Plaza -- an interactive to nearby activity "mini-Bellagio fountain", and artsy bollards and light towers. Torchiere pieces were elimiated due to increasing costs, which in turn are due to project delays caused by the Simpson Group.

The pickup/drop off awning is installed at the Marriott and looks just as bad as it did in the sketches. They haven't named any tenants in its retail space either, which is odd since the hotel is scheduled to open later this month.

In other F Street news, the old Hallmark space now has a "for rent" sign, so the old plans for a bar may have fallen through, or it isn't taking all of the space. Yancey's has been closed the last couple of nights... do they usually not open on Mondays and Tuesdays, are they on vacation, or is something else going on there? The Big Easy and Soma seem to have been doing decent business the last couple of nights, and there seems to be more "just wandering around" foot traffic for the early half of the week, but the weather has been nice too.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It is good to see cooler heads prevail! I hope the parking deck roof can be reinforced for what the city wants to put there, though it did ok with Alive After Five and other events there in the past.

Now the city has *another* grand opening for Raleigh Wide Open 4 -- assuming there is one. 1 was F Street's reopening, 2 was nothing in particular w/ special guest Eddie Money, 3 will be the Convention Center and now 4 is shaping up to be City Square! To me it is still a little weird that F Street opened up just two years ago and how "normal" it feels now to have automobile traffic and a lot of openings (and the occasional closing) that never would have happend on the old F Street Mall.

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^ I was going to add it seems like the threat to condemn the land provided the necessary push needed to move this forward. It's too bad the plaza had to wait a year (subject to cost increases along the way) and will not be completed with the RCC, Marriott and RBC, but at least we will see some progress by that time (Sept), so people won't have to look at that drab plaza much anymore.

There's clear progress at the Carolina Trust (230) and Mahler Bldgs (228) on F-St. The old dollar store sign has been stripped away and work is well underway on the interior/exterior. Mahler is being done by Greg Paul (who's done a lot of Empire's work, and other historic rehabs) and I believe Empire has their own hardhat crew at Carolina Trust.

One of the bright spots for Raleigh is that we still have a fair number of older street level spaces where renovations like these are possible (Harget, Salisbury, Wilmington St). With large new construction loans all but dried up, I would imagine small renovations like these are MUCH more palatable for banks. The capital required is probably more like $1-2M, rather than $50-100M for a major tower (Hillsborough, Charter, Lafayette, etc). I know the towers get all the headlines, but slowly & quietly we are adding some decent retail space in the core. More Raleigh Times, Sonos and Martin St Pizzas will help draw visitors to the street, even without the large towers.

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As of Sunday night, the fence was down along the south side of city plaza/north of the new Cabarrus/F Street intersection. It was replaced by orange and white plastic jersey barriers, and a second row of planters have been added to the end of F Street in front of Progress I and the Sheraton.

The curbs on the new part are a few inches higher than the existing plaza, so there will need to be ramps to smooth that transition, but it is really close to opening. There was a newsrack on the west side of F Street near the Cabarrus intersection. The awning doesn't look as bad as the initial renderings, but it doesn't scream "welcome to a four star hotel" either. No Starbucks logo yet, though the hotel was scheduled to open in the next week or so.

The height difference will hopefully make creating City Plaza easier. The pedestrian connection felt weaker on the east side. The lap/reflecting pool is already in place and narrows the sidewalk transition from City Square to the "500" block of F Street, at least until the parking deck is built up to F Street's level.

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Personally, I do NOT like the fact that they changed the design to take out 3 of the 4 fountains. I do understand that it was for financial reasons though. Strange question, did the city even consider asking some of the businesses in Raleigh if they wanted to help pay for a fountain and have there name attached to it? It could have helped in the money area. I'm just say'n...IMHO!

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  • 2 weeks later...

The N&O has a story on the mothballed Fayetville Street Mall chess boards and the informal community that used them. I would have liked to see some in place of the "benches" on the rest of the street, but it will be a neat component of "downtown's living room". It is good to see the players haven't given up and are anticipating returning to F Street next year.

Activities like that will give the square a sense of place and activity. And when the Kings, Queens, and bishops are elsewhere, the boards can accomodate other uses.

They also report that Charter Square and City Plaza's constuction fences will have contact information and wayfinding.

Currently, the only way to get to the south end of F Street is via a 6-8 foot wide set of stairs in front of BB&T. I guess the street only gets a barrier to keep cars from driving into the plaza since a fence will go up next month, but connectivity to the rest of F Street should be maintianed if at all possible. The current setup is very difficult for handicapped access, with Salisbury Street still closed to the west and Wilmington to Lenior being a difficult path.

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