Raleigh's Fayetteville Street

[Captain Awesome]

City Plaza construction will begin in October, and will be finished in a year. A September completion would have been perfect for RWO 4 (minus potential hurricanes), but October 2009 might be a bit late in the year a party.

It's never too late to party

[Jones_]

Jojo mentioned this in the downtown retail thread, but I thought I say also the Mahler Building (Mahler Gallery) has a nice new facade on the first floor now...just as nice as Big Easy, the York office or Dos Taquitos did with their redone first floor entrances.

[Spartan]

So, I spent some time in Raleigh recently, and it being my first true experience with the city I thought I would share some opinions and photos with y'all. I'm going to try to locate the appropriate threads for various things as I think about them.

I never experienced Fayetteville Street with the pedestrian mall, but my hometown of Spartanburg had the same thing in place until the 90s, so I understand how horrible it must have been. At anyrate, I was thoroughly impressed with what the street is today. I dare say that it is better than Tryon Street on many levels. The capitol and the arts center make for great terminal vistas, and the fact that Raleigh didn't level all of its historic architecture really creates a great atmosphere. The historic buildings are occupied or in the process of being occupied, and there is just a general feel of a complete street. The streetscape was very well done. There is clearly a lot of upward momentum on Fayetteville Street and downtown in general.

My only negative opinion is that there was a noticeable lack of people walking around- particularly at night (though I later learned the nightlife exists elsewhere)- but even in the day as well. I found this surprising given the amount of office buildings in the area.

I have other impressions to express about downtown in general, but in general Raleigh left me with a generally favorable impression.

(photos to come)

[dmccall]

My only negative opinion is that there was a noticeable lack of people walking around- particularly at night (though I later learned the nightlife exists elsewhere)- but even in the day as well. I found this surprising given the amount of office buildings in the area.

I think that's because, well, it's boring. Artistic light sculptures on the corners were scrapped, and there are exactly two decent pedestrian inducing businesses open after 6pm (Big Easy and Sono). Hopefully the City Plaza, The Oxford, and The Foundation will give this street some life.

While it was good to open it up and it is still a work in progress, the street falls flat in its present state. One big problem that will plague the street for a while is the amount of curbside access that is office space. There are too many bank and government functions on the street itself to produce any kind of vibe at night.

[ChiefJoJo]

^ Don't forget about the coming Empire space at 230 Fayetteville St and the Mahler Gallery, which are both under construction as we speak. When I hear people complain that it has taken so long to see the benefits ON the street, I repeat Dana's point (that there are a number of offices at street level that don't appear to be going anywhere), but also that our parking policies (recently revised) and inspections codes were both inadequate for the needs of restoring some of the old storefronts. Now that it appears those issues have been addressed, we have seen a recent resurgence in activity down there.

Back when things were just beginning to take off in 2006 after the street was rebuilt, I can recall folks on here wondering aloud whether the area had the market of people to support constant nightlife and street activity in both Glenwood south and the DT core... after this summer, I can confidently say the market is there. Not everyone likes the GlenSo vibe and the rapid success of Raleigh Times has shown that the market for a hip, old bar/restaurant conversion is very strong.

Also, don't discount the fact that in a difficult economy, it is much easier to get a loan to retrofit an old storefront (a few $million perhaps) than it is to obtain financing for a large mixed use project like the Hillsborough or Lafayette. In the short term, I hope to see more of these smaller investments to add to the retail in the core. The good news is--and Spartan hit on this point--is that there are still a number of empty or underused old storefronts in the core that can still easily accomodate some new investment.

[ncwebguy]

It is good to know that Posta Tuscan Grill, The Mint, and Fayetville Street Tavern are *not* decent, since they do induce pedestrians (two have outside seating, the third has unobstructed windows to the sidewalk) and are open after 6. Not sure if Crema is open till 7 as posted here, but it is somewhat pedestrian inducing as well.

The resurgence of Wilmington Street, one block over, is due to the opening of F Street. Without it, there likely would not be Dos Taquitos Centro, Riveara/Loft 135, Times Bar/Morning Times, Taz, or Fins.

Progress Energy is rennovating their Fayetville Street frontage in their original building, since RBC is moving their bank to RBC Plaza. This will allow for more potential retail, etc. as well. The RBC Plaza space closest to the Hudson, City Square (at least on the BoA side) and Charter Square will also add space. One Hannover has been hampered by ano owner trying to get the most out of the city as possible for City Plaza, and Charter Square can not start to rise until the parking deck underneath is completed.

No one said opening Fayetville Street to traffic was going to magically make shops appear. But it would provide a foundation that was severly lacking, and fix the mistake that was the pedestrian-unfriendlly pedestrian mall. The downside of being the premier address is the large number of lobbies -- Wachovia (twice if you include the old building on the 200 block), First Citizens, RBC, Century Post Office, Wake County Courthouse, Capitol Bank, Bank of America, Sheraton, BB&T, and Marriott -- eat up a lot of potential retail square footage.

[orulz]

Progress Energy is rennovating their Fayetville Street frontage in their original building, since RBC is moving their bank to RBC Plaza. This will allow for more potential retail, etc. as well.

Speaking of which, has anybody seen any renderings, elevations, floor plans, streetscape plans, etc. for this? The the redo of the former RBC branch in the bottom of Progress Energy 1? Are they keeping the arcade? I've always thought it looks out of place, like an afterthought, and that it makes the space too dark. And the large expanses of blank walls need to go, too. Some of the ground-level windows are darkly tinted as well, when the glass at ground level really should be clear.

[Jones_]

^ The arcade is already gone. Not sure if a new more modern one will replace it though.

[orulz]

Gasp, I've been exposed. I don't wander around downtown often enough to notice when these things change.

Anyway, glad to hear the arcade is gone. Hope it doesn't come back. What other sort of improvements are they doing?

[Jones_]

Gasp, I've been exposed. I don't wander around downtown often enough to notice when these things change.

Anyway, glad to hear the arcade is gone. Hope it doesn't come back. What other sort of improvements are they doing?

Hard to tell, its all shielded by the traditional plywood enclosure. Regarding another smaller project, the old Hallmark building looks to be ready for occupancy. The basement is reached by a set of stairs from the FS sidewalk. As you descend you can see the old exposed cellar walls from long ago...not sure if they are from this building or from a previous building on the site, but they are authentic and very cool...like walking down into a bar in Dublin almost.

[Spartan]

While it was good to open it up and it is still a work in progress, the street falls flat in its present state. One big problem that will plague the street for a while is the amount of curbside access that is office space. There are too many bank and government functions on the street itself to produce any kind of vibe at night.

It does take some time for the momentum to change. Plus it will be competing with the other already lively parts of town. IMO the half dozen or so other towers that are planned on or within 1 block of Fayetteville St will be a big boost.

I decided not to show all of my pictures since most of them are not spectacular. In fact, I'll put most of them in the Raleigh Photos thread in the Triangle Coffee House.

I love the use of the state house and the art museum as terminal vistas.

[RaleighRob]

^ I think you mean Performing Arts Center.

[orulz]

I love the use of the state house and the art museum as terminal vistas.

Yeah, we all wish the art museum was in this neighborhood, but it's actually four miles west of downtown. The state owns plenty of empty land in the immediate vicinity of the existing museums campus, but they're building a parking lot and visitor's center on the land and spending tens of millions of dollars to build a new art museum right next door to the existing one in the suburbs instead.

[ncwebguy]

The Marriott Starbucks is now open till 7, seven days a week. I'm by no means a *$ fan, but it is encouraging that they have enough business to expand their hours past 4-5. There were a lot of people outside on Saturday. Some were taking a break after the Jaycee's shopping spree in the convention center, but others were just hanging out.

Still not Times Bar crowds, but is pretty good for only being open a couple of months. I didn't notice the hours of operation at Port City or Creama, but I know someone that occasionally works in the BB&T office said they are all thankful for a "real" Starbucks.

[Spartan]

^ I think you mean Performing Arts Center.

Yeah my bad Its all art and columns, so I get it mixed up. I was thinking about Philadelphia with their art museum at the end of Ben Franklin Pkwy.

[Gard]

FYI City Plaza breaks ground Oct. 20th at noon:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/wake/story/1251049.html

[ChiefJoJo]

^ Thankfully, it's starting. This should have been done by NOW, but alas, we have to tolerate yet another year of construction down there. I was out there yesterday and crews are already prepping the site. You cannot enter the plaza's center now and they are cutting down the trees and building the pedestrian walkways to avoid construction. I, for one, believe the plaza may actually be a better result than Plensa's piece, in terms of generating pedestrian activity. Of course, we won't see the completed picture for several more years until Charter Square and sites 2 & 3 are fully developed.

[ncwebguy]

Progress Energy I's facade is starting to take shape. It looks like a quarter circle from the steel that has gone up so far. It will cover about half to 2/3rds of the sidewalk, not to the curb like the old awning. I took a picture on my camera phone last night, but that is not doing me any good now.

Also, the City Plaza rennovations appear to have cut off the F Street to Wilmington connection between PE I and Boa, and force pedestrians close to BoA and BB&T. There is a ramp going north of the Marriott F Street sidewalk that takes a sharp 90 degree turn to deposit people close to BB&T/Two Hannover, with a similar setup near the Sheraton to the north of the construction zone. It is a little more space than the F Street Mall construction, but not by much.

The Posta Bar seemed to have more customers than Starbucks and Posta Restaurant put together, but it was good to see a fair number of people there on a Thursday night.

[Jones_]

Raleigh Ensemble Players Theater Company is moving into the renovated old Hallmark space. Nice addition. They are currently located in Artspace. This block is looking better all the time.

[JTsaysToYou]

THAT's SO COOL!

[ChiefJoJo]

Jojo mentioned this in the downtown retail thread, but I thought I say also the Mahler Building (Mahler Gallery) has a nice new facade on the first floor now...just as nice as Big Easy, the York office or Dos Taquitos did with their redone first floor entrances.

I snapped this pic of Mahler and the Empire project at 230 Fayetteville St... these two buildings are looking great and will add another important bit of activity to the street.

[ChiefJoJo]

Jimmy John's Subs is the first tenant announced in the City Plaza retail pavillions. FYI.

[orulz]

Progress Energy I's facade is starting to take shape. It looks like a quarter circle from the steel that has gone up so far. It will cover about half to 2/3rds of the sidewalk, not to the curb like the old awning. I took a picture on my camera phone last night, but that is not doing me any good now.

Looks like it's mostly done. I honestly have to say I'm not a big fan. It's nice and bright under there at night with the LED light fixtures, but somehow the awning doesn't fit with the architecture of the rest of the building at all. I'd far prefer a more subtle design that didn't jut out so far into the sidewalk.

They seem to have replaced the tinted glass at street level with clear glass, which is a slight improvement, but there are still those huge sections of monolithic white painted concrete jutting out facing Fayetteville Street. I definitely think they could - and should - have done a LOT more there to make the building relate to the street.

[dmccall]

Those concrete walls would be great places for murals.

[ChiefJoJo]

Looks like it's mostly done. I honestly have to say I'm not a big fan. It's nice and bright under there at night with the LED light fixtures, but somehow the awning doesn't fit with the architecture of the rest of the building at all. I'd far prefer a more subtle design that didn't jut out so far into the sidewalk.

They seem to have replaced the tinted glass at street level with clear glass, which is a slight improvement, but there are still those huge sections of monolithic white painted concrete jutting out facing Fayetteville Street. I definitely think they could - and should - have done a LOT more there to make the building relate to the street.

The awning doesn't fit the building at all--looks totally out of place. It actually reminds me of RDU's Terminal 2, with it's swooping flowing arcs... but it's still attached to that boring Center Plaza Building.

BTW, City Plaza is making some progress. The old plaza bricks have been stripped away and some of the new concrete footings are being poured for the pavilions. As for Jimmy John's, I hope their sandwiches are better than the ones they gave away on Thursday ( ), and I hope we get a diverse mix of retail in those spaces. My fear is that with the economy in the crapper, and some of the projects that were envisioned to be going up (L, Charter, Lafayette) being stalled, the vision of the plaza as the city's gathering space may take more time to realize. I hope people have an understanding that it will take some time to reach critical mass downtown, but we are getting there, albeit more slowly than anticipated.