Drink Downtown until 4am?

[asonj23]

I wouldn't expect any establishment owners outside of the limits to support this bill because it gives their competetion the advantage. Yes he says that he would not have his doors open beyond 2am even if he was within the zone, but I would think that the majority of the establishments within the zone would take advantage of the opportunity.

He does make a good point about the drunk driving though. It wouldn't be good to have intoxicated drivers on the roads for an extra two hours.

[bobliocatt]

Here's another viewpoint from a guy who claimed to once own a bar

Re: Re: Is this beneficial to the overall citizenry?

Posted by: cha3052

Posted on: 4/27/05 - 12:49 p.m.

In reply to: "Re: Is this beneficial to the overall citizenry?" posted by Lindsey

Lindsey, I owned a lounge. The true "drunks" are gone long before eleven, much less sticking around til 4:00 am. In my establishment, people who drank too much were cut off and given coffee, providing they would drink it, and they could stay as long as they caused no trouble. We encouraged anyone who had too many to lay off and sober up. True "drunks"? They don't last long. And everyone (bartenders/waitresses) gets to a point they know who the drunks are and discourages them from being in the establishment right away.

http://cgi.jacksonville.com/cgi-bin/msgboa...i?section=13636

[crazy cuban]

sorry for stereotyping the "born-agains" thing is i am pretty tired of the religious folk around here telling me what i can and cannot do through the political system. (ie adult entertainment, drinking curfews and the like!) and by the way, i am a conservative who doesn't believe in the welfare system and the so-called religious right. but these are some good points made about the fact that there needs to be more to do after 5pm downtown than at 2am>>> and that takes people to invest and patronize said establishments. but with developments like the St. Johns Center and further south, i don't see that happening anytime soon... and I wonder if downtown does become the Mecca for the "empty-nester" will that help the cause? anyways, is drinking till 4am good or bad>>> who knows until you try?? the competition arguement is something i don't believe... if you have a bar at the beach, you have competition at Tinseltown, Orange Park, San Marco...etc.

and nor more committees or task forces, i think there is a task force for everything.

[asonj23]

:::Steps up on soapbox:::

Maybe competetion was a bad word. The point is that the major disagreement is from the establishment owners outside of the 4am zone. They feel that they should be included as well and will kick and scream for their piece of the pie disregarding the idea that this bill was founded to aid in the rejuvenation of our city core. The city core that allows them to sell alcohol in the first place. Downtown is the heart of our great city and should be given every opportunity to thrive and grow because if the heart fails, then the rest of the city will follow.

There is so much that people of this town want, but at the same time they don't want it near them.

"Traffic sucks!!" "Well ma'am can we put a transit station near to your house so you have a better way to work and to popular destinations??" "NO WAY!!, Not near MY house!!", they scream.

"There is nothing to do in this town", "Well sir can we create a 4am zone downtown (far away from most anyone's house) to draw in more night life and late night venues to create a compact entertainment zone for ya??" "NO WAY!!, Not unless my bar is included!!""

It just sucks that there are a few out there who could potentially ruin something like this for everyone. Yeah it may have some negatives, but there isn't anything that can't be worked out with a little creativity. At least give this a trial run for say a year. If things get to hectic then scrub it and I'll shut my big mouth.

Hopefully I haven't offended anyone.

[Captain Obvious]

Seems to me that lack of downtown nightlife is not a reasonable argument for opposing a 4am last call. It's not as if extending drinking hours will somehow cause the city to lose "focus" on 5pm-2am. As if nightlife depends on the concentration and furrowed brows of city officials.

But I agree with some of the previous posts. It sounds like the opponents fall into two categories. Religious people who just oppose alcohol in general (which is their right) but are trying to pretend like they have a non-religious reason, and bar owners who don't want to deal with the extra competition.

It also sounds like Sleiman is the real master-mind behind this, and Jenkins is just pushing it because she likes the idea. He really wants the Twisted Martini to have an advantage over other nightspots so he can magnify its early success.

[RiversideGator]

The obvious solution to the drinking past 2 a.m. causes drunk driving argument (of course drinking at any time causes drunk driving if you are so inclined) is to have police officers around downtown on foot and in cars to apprehend drunk drivers. If there is a visible police presence, may potential drunk drivers (myself included) will cab it home or take mass transit (in some far away future).

[RiversideGator]

many, not may

[Urban_Legend]

And I believe that Downtown has a good ratio of police officers patrolling, for such a small concentrated area. Am I right? Perhaps they coujld even add a few extra officers to the "4am zone".

And yes, drunk driving occurs all times of the day, not just these two extra hours, lol.

[merlin]

TUC was right... thursday night was jumpin .. at least at the Burrito Gallery it was. Bar and back deck were nice and full.

I too agree that jacksonville should focus effort on the 6-2 time frame first. Make sure to keep the people downtown that are already there as well as bring in new ones later in the evening.

[scongro]

My first thought when I heard this a week or so ago was that it would present an opportunity for the cab companies. For example, right now with no central entertainement area, there is no where for a cab to wait for a customer. With a downtown entertainment district, we can have the masses in one place, and this would be a good place to get a cab from.

And for those uncomfortable with leaving there car downtown, think about it: after leaving the bar at 4am, it's only a little while until daylight.

[Urban_Legend]

[bobliocatt]

^How in the world do you get on one of these committees? Do these people have extensive knowledge about public drinking ordinances, have first hand experience from another city with a later ordinance? Are these committees diverse, with people from different races, cultures, ages and backgrounds?

[Captain Obvious]

^How in the world do you get on one of these committees?  Do these people have extensive knowledge about public drinking ordinances, have first hand experience from another city with a later ordinance?  Are these committees diverse, with people from different races, cultures, ages and backgrounds?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never heard of undersheriff Mackesy, but all the other people have been heavily involved in Jacksonville politics in the past. They are actually very "big" names, all things considered. Ms. Pittman recently lost a city coucil race to Glorious Johnson. Ms. Moran is related to Judge Moran. Mr. Baily publishes the Daily Record, among other things.

[bobliocatt]

^I've only been in town for about 18 months, so I have a couple of questions regarding this committee. I know, locally they're big names, but do they have any experience with extending a public drinking ordinance in an effort to promote nightlife?

Is this a mixed (diverse as far as political, educational, religious, age, race) committee that includes members who actually hang out at night and are familiar with other places that already have confronted this issue like Cleveland, Miami, Memphis or Vancouver?

[Captain Obvious]

Oh, lord no. These are all local, middle-aged professionals. I doubt any of them have the slightest experience with drinking ordinances. I highly doubt that any of them ever hang out and drink downtown. I would imagine the reason they are on this committe, is because they are all active "downtown" people who aren't bar owners. That way (if they support the ordinance and the council passes it) council can say that it had support from "downtown stakeholders."

Pittman, is black and a Democrat if that's what you were wondering. No idea about the undersheriff. The rest are white. Moran is a Republican, not sure about the rest. No idea about any of their religious affiliations. Rhodes is already on the JEDC. Bailey is already on the infamous DRC.

[Urban_Legend]

^Oh this sounds just lovely. I propose the formation of a task-force to investigate this taskforce, lol.

[Captain Obvious]

^Oh this sounds just lovely.  I propose the formation of a task-force to investigate this taskforce, lol.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, despite all that, one would hope that Jenkins isn't a dummy. I am assuming she hand-picked some people she thinks will support her. Rhodes and Bailey are businessmen (Bailey owns a building on Bay St. too) so I hope at least they support the ordinance.

[120North]

Just to chip in with an additional $.02...

As a life long resident of Jacksonville, I support any attempt to revive entertainment downtown. I think that Ms. Jenkins is trying to set the foundation for what Could be a vibrant downtown entertainment district. Building off of the success of the SB, she sees what could happen in this area. The ordinance is an attempt to level the playing field a bit when it comes to operating an entertainment venue in an area that is heavily commercial with high rents and such. With big developers willing to dump some serious money (particularly on the Northbank) into this area, this could really get something jumpstarted.

Also, I certainly don't think the ordinance is a social statement by the council. It is an attempt to generate interest in an area that is essentially devoid of any interest after the 5:00 pm whistle. I personally would like to see an entertainment district develop in this area, similar to say Church Street in Orlando, or Country Club Plaza in KC. Not something canned or contrived, but a genuine place where people would want to go hang out. A place where you could go have a few drinks, llisten to some music, walk up and down the street going from bar to bar. I don't think that anyone would expect a 24/7 Party like the quarter, but it would certainly beat the ghost town down there now.

[Urban_Legend]

^Good point, and welcome to the forum!

[bobliocatt]

Committee will review extended hour drinking

by J. Brooks Terry

Staff Writer

Should downtown adopt extended drinking hours? A special committee could soon make a recommendation.

For full article click here:

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=42791

[vicupstate]

Entertainment Zone Ordinance

This is the ordinance regarding the downtown entertainment zone.

The Survey below is being sent to downtown property owners to gauge support on this issue:

1. Do you support the legislation that would extend last call for

serving alcohol in Downtown from 2:00 a.m. to 4:00 a.m.?

___ Yes

___ No

2. Do you believe the extension of last call for serving alcohol will

attract new businesses to locate in Downtown?

___ Yes

___ No

3. Do you believe the extension of last call for serving alcohol will

have a positive economic impact on existing bars and restaurants in

Downtown?

___ Yes

___ No

4 . Do you have any additional comments or concerns about the

legislation?

5 . Please indicate the category which best describes your position:

___ Downtown property owner or representative

___ Downtown business owner or representative

___ Downtown resident

___ Other (please specify)

______________________________________________

Thank you very much for completing this survey. The responses will be

compiled next week and will be presented to the Downtown

Entertainment District Community Review Committee at their next

meeting.

[scongro]

By the way, Jim Bailey runs Downtown This Week and The Daily Record. Generally, his people are Pro-Downtown. However, I've never seen him at London Bridge at last call.

[bobliocatt]

[vicupstate]

DVI Conducts Survey to Assess Support of Last Call Legislation

The Downtown Entertainment District Community Review Committee, a

group weighing the pros and cons of the proposal to extend last call

for alcohol by two hours in a specific Downtown district, recently

asked us to find out what our Downtown stakeholders think about this

proposed legislation.

In the first survey, Downtown Vision e-mailed a questionnaire to

approximately 1200 Downtown supporters and received a 20% response

rate. Approximately 50% of Downtown stakeholders supported the

legislation and 50% opposed the legislation.

In the second survey, Downtown Vision asked 18 restaurant and club

owners to tell us if they would stay open until 4:00 a.m. From the

survey we confirmed that fine-dining restaurants like the Charthouse,

Wine Cellar and Bravo! Ristorante would not stay open until 4:00 a.m.

We also found that the hotels would have their bars stay open late as

conventions or crowds dictate.

Only three of the 18 restaurants and clubs stated that they would be

open until 4:00 a.m. on Monday through Thursday, while only six of

the 18 surveyed stated that they would stay open until 4:00 a.m. on

Friday and Saturday.

Of the 46 bars and restaurants that sell alcohol in the Downtown

area, Downtown Vision estimates that potentially 23 could possibly

remain open late. Of these restaurants, nine would be at the Landing,

five on the Southbank, four in the Adams/Laura Street corridor, three

in the Forsyth/Julia/Broad street area, and the remaining 3 spread

throughout the Downtown area.

[Urban_Legend]

The Downtown Entertainment District Community Review Committee

That's one long-@$$ name! It's kinda sad that alot of these businesses don't want to stay up late. Maybe this 4 am thing is ahead of its time?