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SC Cities: Ideal for Young Professionals?


krazeeboi

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Chi2Midlands, thanks for another way of looking at things.

Also in the defense SC's cities, while I know of former classmates that moved out of state for jobs, I also know those who have stayed in state as well. I have three fraternity brothers who found good jobs in Columbia--one with a subsidiary of Blue Cross Blue Shield, another with the governor's office, and yet another in law enforcement. Another is pursuing his master's at USC. One works for the York County Convention and Visitor's Bureau. Still another works for Clinton Jr. College in Rock Hill and is obtaining his master's at Winthrop soon. I know one former classmate who got a really good job as a pharmaceutical rep in Columbia. Two have good jobs in Spartanburg (one working for the local newspaper), one works at Bell South in Charleston, etc. So I don't think SC cities are doing THAT bad of a job. We just have to step our game up a little.

And Teshadoh........I don't think so. ;)

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I agree that some people do find good jobs in SC. I think as other posters have pointed out, it really has a lot to do with what kind of work you do. Good sales jobs are available almost anywhere. But good IT jobs are not. I also know a number of people who had their first or second jobs (entry-level) after college in SC, but then moved on for better opportunities elsewhere once they outgrew those jobs. I find it interesting how many of SC expats wind up going not so far away--to the Atlanta region in Georgia or the several larger NC metros. I also think the real drain is not in Columbia or Charleston or Greenville. It is in the state's small towns and rural areas. Of those who went to college from my small town graduating class, very few came back. Colonies of them went to Columbia and Charleston. But few stayed. Columbia may loose people to Atlanta and Charlotte, but the smaller towns are loosing people to Columbia in a big way too. There really is a progression up the urban hierarchy in terms of population migration. There seems to be more a trend to move to larger places rather than vice versa. So, Sumter or Orangeburg is afraid of being overshadowed by Columbia. Columbia is afraid of being overshadowed by Charlotte. Charlotte is afraid of being overshadowed by Atlanta. And so forth. It is an interesting dynamic.

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Thanks for your good points Chi2Midlands. I would definitely say that the quality of life in Columbia beats Atlanta if you have to do the suburban commute deal. I have been fortunate enough to construct a life in Atlanta where I live, work, and play all in the intown area. In short, I do not deal with traffic. My 5 to 10 minute commute to work is a few miles along intown surface streets with a few stop lights and light to no traffic. If I go to clients in the suburbs, it is at off times and reverse the traffic flow. When I worked downtown, I would walk to a train station and take the train downtown. I live within easy access of the amenities of urban Atlanta like Piedmont Park, art facilities, theaters, funky neighborhoods, and tons of diverse restaurants. If I was confronted with living in the suburbs and doing the hour commute to work or other amentities, Columbia could start looking VERY, VERY, VERY attractive. There is a huge affordability advantage with Columbia too (although the jobs may not pay as much). I also agree with your point about the transient population of the boomtowns like Atlanta. A lot of folks also will live in town during their single 20-something years or their 30-something DINK years. But then the kids come and it is off to suburbia. I am seeing a hopeful sign in that more young couples with children are trying to stay in the city. I am hoping that more people do lay down roots and make a commitment to the city over the long term.

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Interesting read Chi2Midlands - what is interesting about your comment about the long distance commuter, both my dad & sister did that when living in Rock Hill.  He worked at Fort Jackson for a year & my sister received her masters at USC in Columbia.  An odd possibility would be for the entire state of SC to be one massive MSA with Columbia as it's base - it is no more than 2 hours from nearly any city (except Myrtle Beach perhaps) to Columbia.

What a sick thought, the state of South Carolopolis ;)

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Somehow I don't see that happening in our lifetime ;) All o four cities woul ahve to be charlotte-atlanta sized. But then, how big would Charlotte and Atlanta be?

On a separate note- I wonder if I-73 will decrese the time it takes to get to Myrtle Beach?

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^ But then again - MSA doesn't equate to bigger urban areas. The OMB will either have to change their definition again, or we will be seeing larger & larger metro areas due to commuting. Rural economies are falling apart - in many cases they already have in poorer regions & commuting long distances is becoming part of the norm. SC is also a small state so there is a good possibility that the state could be split up into just a handful of metro areas depending on how the smaller cities of Greenwood, Florence, Sumter & Orangeburg do.

UrbanSoutherner - as another intown Atlanta resident I agree with you. Really the only reason I will defend Atlanta as a city of immense sprawl is because I do believe the city has an attractive urban core that is doing well despite suburban growth. Also - there are many common traits that are similar between intown Atlanta & intown Columbia - mill villages & bungalow neighborhoods all populate our cities.

But as for SC retaining young professionals, our friend from Columbia who drove up for the weekend fits into the profile perfectly. She is very urbane, intelligent & well traveled & she has connections in many cities & could succeed in a number of them as a programmer - yet she is very content with Columbia. Of course she envies many of the things that are available in other cities (as I am envious of what is available in larger cities - as well as smaller cities) such as the Ikea opening up soon in Atlanta. But that is what makes SC a great location to be in - she is only a few hours away from Atlanta, or the NC cities or from central Florida.

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^  But then again - MSA doesn't equate to bigger urban areas.  The OMB will either have to change their definition again, or we will be seeing larger & larger metro areas due to commuting.  Rural economies are falling apart - in many cases they already have in poorer regions & commuting long distances is becoming part of the norm.  SC is also a small state so there is a good possibility that the state could be split up into just a handful of metro areas depending on how the smaller cities of Greenwood, Florence, Sumter & Orangeburg do.

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That is a good point.

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^  But then again - MSA doesn't equate to bigger urban areas.  The OMB will either have to change their definition again, or we will be seeing larger & larger metro areas due to commuting.  Rural economies are falling apart - in many cases they already have in poorer regions & commuting long distances is becoming part of the norm.  SC is also a small state so there is a good possibility that the state could be split up into just a handful of metro areas depending on how the smaller cities of Greenwood, Florence, Sumter & Orangeburg do.

UrbanSoutherner - as another intown Atlanta resident I agree with you.  Really the only reason I will defend Atlanta as a city of immense sprawl is because I do believe the city has an attractive urban core that is doing well despite suburban growth.  Also - there are many common traits that are similar between intown Atlanta & intown Columbia - mill villages & bungalow neighborhoods all populate our cities. 

But as for SC retaining young professionals, our friend from Columbia who drove up for the weekend fits into the profile perfectly.  She is very urbane, intelligent & well traveled & she has connections in many cities & could succeed in a number of them as a programmer - yet she is very content with Columbia.  Of course she envies many of the things that are available in other cities (as I am envious of what is available in larger cities - as well as smaller cities) such as the Ikea opening up soon in Atlanta.  But that is what makes SC a great location to be in - she is only a few hours away from Atlanta, or the NC cities or from central Florida.

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That's one of the things that I think gives SC cities an advantage in the long run over some of the NC cities excluding CLT (because it's almost a SC city anyway, geographically) is the fact that they are so accessible to the mountains, ocean, or other big cities like ATL, Jacksonville, etc. Most of these destinations are only a day trip/weekend getaway from any of the SC big three, and considering SC has just as many amenities on ground level as NC cities and the cost of living is slightly cheaper I really can't see why the SC three wont be able to attract and keep young people in the area in the near future. People easily forget how other cities 20 years ago were wearing the same shoes that SC's big three are today. I think it's funny that people can't see the potential especially since SC is geographically such a small state, and being in the proximity of GA, & NC, wouldn't one think that the word would get out that there are some real quality cities to the east, & south of those two states? This is just the begining of a boom in growth in the SE and as the ATL, CLT's, & Orlando's fill up people will be looking to the next teir of city with a high quality of life to call home ie (Columbia, Greenville, & Charleston), but then again that's just my opinion? ;)

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That's one of the things that I think gives SC cities an advantage in the long run over some of the NC cities excluding CLT (because it's almost a SC city anyway, geographically) is the fact that they are so accessible to the mountains, ocean, or other big cities like ATL, Jacksonville, etc.  Most of these destinations are only a day trip/weekend getaway from any of the SC big three, and considering SC has just as many amenities on ground level as NC cities and the cost of living is slightly cheaper I really can't see why the SC three wont be able to attract and keep young people in the area in the near future. People easily forget how other cities 20 years ago were wearing the same shoes that SC's big three are today. I think it's funny that people can't see the potential especially since SC is geographically such a small state, and being in the proximity of GA, & NC, wouldn't one think that the word would get out that there are some real quality cities to the east, & south of those two states? This is just the begining of a boom in growth in the SE and as the ATL, CLT's, & Orlando's fill up people will be looking to the next teir of city with a high quality of life to call home ie (Columbia, Greenville, & Charleston), but then again that's just my opinion? ;)

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You're right. I agree.

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The "young professional, creative class" group that is beginning to take root in Columbia is similar to one started in Charlotte about three years ago called City Committe (check out Bug Me Not to get around registration if prompted).

I wonder how many other Southern cities have groups/committees like this?

Oh, well let me go ask. Pardon me. ;)

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A few of my fraternity brothers and I discuss various issues through email. One works closely with Gov. Sanford, and I brought up the topic of this thread to get his opinion. From his standpoint, he says the reason SC will never attract high-quality, high-paying jobs (at least not any time soon) that encourage young professionals to stay in the state is due to the lack of an overall educated work force stemming from the failures of our public school system. He cites the failure of the PPIC bill in the House as proof of this. He had this to say:

I am a bit disturbed at the fact that while everyone is cheering the defeat of the Bill (and you shouldve seen the teachers and ignorant legislators I was just talking about in prior emails, high-fiving in the lobby like they had just won the NBA championship), they <have actually> succeeded in keeping the public education system EXACTLY the way it is, but what does that gain us except  a continued position at the bottom of the country? The same teachers that decide to take off at 3:00 and who are too "old to do lesson plans" and who dont really care about anything other than tenure are going to keep doing what they are doing. Not all teachers practice these terrible habits, but enough of them obviously do it to keep us firmly entrenched at the bottom of US education...while we continue to be among the top half of money spent on Education. I dont know if PPIC was the answer, but it was an alternative.

What do you guys think? Do you think that SC's public education system will be the nail in the coffin of the state's economic future?

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Krazeeboi, I have to disagree. As seen in another thread the Columbia metro area is ranked 9th in the country for public schools in medium sized cities. The problem, IMHO, is that South Carolina has so many poor areas that have substandard schools. Until those schools are properly funded and good teachers are given a reason to teach in such schools, we will remain near the bottom in education as a state.

I DO have a solution:

Instead of having 5 million school districts funded separately in the state, have all money for public education pooled in one state fund and distributed to school districts according to the number of students and needs. This would end the rural districts' underfunding. There will still be roles for local school boards and superintendents, administratively.

Additionally, I have met way too many teachers who have no business BEING teachers. We must have higher standards AND higher pay for our teachers. I don't feel like I make alot of money, but I make about double what most teachers make in South Carolina. That is pitiful.

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And I believe that it is the poor school districts that was primarily referred to.

Your solution may work, but what are some realistic impediments to getting something like this passed in the SC Legislature? You know how deathly afraid those backwards folks are of anything new.

On another note, I attended Winthrop University's graduation this morning, and the commencement speaker was Mayor Joe Riley of Charleston. It was my first time hearing him speak, and from what I heard, he seems to be a real voice of progress in this state. He spoke of Charleston's accomplishments under his leadership, and he specifically spoke to the graduates about their role in SC's future. He said that the state is expected to have 1.1 million residents by 2025, which translates into more living space, office space, entertainment space, etc. He even invoked Richard Florida and the whole creative class concept. I was really impressed by what he had to say. I do think that Charleston has a really good chance of attracting these types, but we know what the number one obstacle is in that case: lack of affordable housing on the peninsula. But it looks like Greenville is REALLY preparing for their boom, which shall surely come.

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What was that commercial that used to be on TV for the United Negro College Fund? A chain is only as strong as its weakest link? If South Carolina is to get anywhere, our educational system has got to improve and the rural areas are the weak link there. Until that situation is resolved, we will never reach the economic status of our neighbors.

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Today, MSN released a listing of America's top 1000 high schools. Many southern states made the top 10% with multiple schools, but guess which one didn't? SC got its first mention at #127 (which isn't too bad though). However, I want you guys to check out the list for yourselves. There's an obvious trend when it comes to the "best" high schools in SC, at least in MSN's opinion.

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Today, MSN released a listing of America's top 1000 high schools. Many southern states made the top 10% with multiple schools, but guess which one didn't? SC got its first mention at #127 (which isn't too bad though). However, I want you guys to check out the list for yourselves. There's an obvious trend when it comes to the "best" high schools in SC, at least in MSN's opinion.

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Looks like the trend for best high schools is Greenville.

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