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Next in Norfolk


Greekboy80

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  • 9 months later...

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Not sure if this is the right place to mention it, but there is a great article summarizing the current state of downtown Norfolk in the latest edition of the Portfolio. The author basically states that there are a lot of conflicts brewing that will only become amplified with the addition of 1300+ new residents. Can there be both a thriving nightlife and an older crowd that values quiet after 10PM? Can you have the creativity and vitality of a 24/7 downtown and also have space for busy professionals who value peace and quiet? Basically, she makes a solid argument that says downtown is at a type of tipping point. Either it will become more pedestrian or it will begin to realize its potential as the urban core of the region.

Bobby Wright had an interesting metaphor about downtown being the heart of the region and its condition being paralleled throughout the region. That is, if the heart is healthy and strong, then the rest of the body will be too. If it is weak and malnourished, then the rest of the region will also be weak and tired. They also quoted him as saying something along the lines of, "Town centers will eat our lunch. We need to focus on and magnify the richness of downtown." The basic idea being that a lot of the town center areas are going to outperform more independent, unique, character based places in genuine urban areas IF there is not a deliberate, conscientious, focus to amplify and support the urban system. Thoughts?

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Not sure if this is the right place to mention it, but there is a great article summarizing the current state of downtown Norfolk in the latest edition of the Portfolio. The author basically states that there are a lot of conflicts brewing that will only become amplified with the addition of 1300+ new residents. Can there be both a thriving nightlife and an older crowd that values quiet after 10PM? Can you have the creativity and vitality of a 24/7 downtown and also have space for busy professionals who value peace and quiet? Basically, she makes a solid argument that says downtown is at a type of tipping point. Either it will become more pedestrian or it will begin to realize its potential as the urban core of the region.

Bobby Wright had an interesting metaphor about downtown being the heart of the region and its condition being paralleled throughout the region. That is, if the heart is healthy and strong, then the rest of the body will be too. If it is weak and malnourished, then the rest of the region will also be weak and tired. They also quoted him as saying something along the lines of, "Town centers will eat our lunch. We need to focus on and magnify the richness of downtown." The basic idea being that a lot of the town center areas are going to outperform more independent, unique, character based places in genuine urban areas IF there is not a deliberate, conscientious, focus to amplify and support the urban system. Thoughts?

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I do think that (pains me to say) that Va Beach Town Center is good for the region and as vdogg said visit any major metro area and you will find multiple urban centers...DC metro has several, Atlanta metro has 3 separate skylines. But It helps to have a primary downtown.. Norfolk should definitely remain the center of HR despite what the census bureau says.. (I don't see a long line of cars leaving Norfolk to go to VA Beach at 8AM every morning. (Thats why traffic is great if you live in Norfolk an work in any other cities as I have!!).

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I do think that (pains me to say) that Va Beach Town Center is good for the region and as vdogg said visit any major metro area and you will find multiple urban centers...DC metro has several, Atlanta metro has 3 separate skylines. But It helps to have a primary downtown.. Norfolk should definitely remain the center of HR despite what the census bureau says.. (I don't see a long line of cars leaving Norfolk to go to VA Beach at 8AM every morning. (Thats why traffic is great if you live in Norfolk an work in any other cities as I have!!).
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I think you guys missed Bobby's point...to me he is saying that the competition is fierce and there is no doubt that VB towncenter is stealing business from downtown especially the chain restaurants from the independents, which is o.k., competition is good; however his use of the word "cookie cutter" is telling, he just wants Norfolk to continue to grow and be successful within it's own style and character which is very hard as we are seven separate cities each trying to find our own identity <----main reason why Hampton Roads will always remain backwards and play second fiddle to every other mid sized metro region in the country...I say this as a very proud citizen of downtown Norfolk ;)

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actually it is best for a region to have a number of urban developments and cores throughout the region. For starters, it lessens one's commute time if used correctly, which lessens one's footprint on the planet. This is an idea that is in play here in Portland as well. A plan came out a few years ago about where key urban developments should happen throughout the region to help prevent suburban sprawl and help limit people's footprints.

There is something to be said for having the key focus of development happen in the core of the region as well. Right now downtown Portland is that core area, but as this region ages, just across the river in the Lloyd District, that area could easily one day out grow downtown. Or there is an area to the east of the city called Gateway which in the next 50 years if done right could be bigger than downtown. The reason for Portland's development downtown has more to do with the fact that people desire to see the core of the city be better.

Something that the core of a city has that a town center will "never have" is a rich cultural history and an long standing investment in elements that make it more than just urban development. With that said, VB town center is different than that. The city is currently hiding behind that label but should not be confused as a town center or a small commuter hub. VB is to Norfolk, what Charlotte is to Richmond. Richmond has a greater history, but Charlotte took drastic steps to surpass Richmond as a major city behind Atlanta. I am not saying Charlotte is a better city than Norfolk, I am saying they made larger steps recently that has caused them to surpass Richmond. This is what I am seeing happen with VB and Richmond.

Again, nothing wrong with these movements, but what is different from Portland and the Hampton Roads metro is that the smaller cities and town center areas don't have the power to pass downtown Portland, with Virginia Beach, it does have that power. While Norfolk should work with their neighbors, it should always be cautious of the giant to the east that could easily break off and market the region under Virginia Beach, thus shifting what we would consider the core of the region.

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That was a great article! Redesigning an area to accommodate both businesses and residents is always a challenge, but I think it will work in Norfolk. The light rail should only improve downtown Norfolk as the center of the region. Of course, all of these things take time, patience and energy. I tried to convince my sister to move downtown, but she's not moving out of Ghent. It's great to see that the downtown options are becoming a reality.

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Well, returning to the original question. I think that after Harbor Heights, Trader, Hilton, Granby Tower, and Harbor's Edge, that a new office tower will be announced. I also think that Fort Norfolk will develop very nicely and hopefully get closer to completion in the coming years.
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  • 2 weeks later...

Portfolio was really hitting this issue hard. I missed this article.

Wake Up!

Now it is a symbol of another kind: a symbol of both fear and lethargy.

When I speak of fear, I’m not talking about fear in the face of gunfire. I’m talking about fear of success, fear of vitality – fear of the very thing that its leaders and residents claim they want. I don’t fully understand the collective psychology at work here. But the fear is very much evident. You can hear it in the silence behind the Granby Theater’s locked doors. You can see it in the empty space that was once Station 2, a promising live-music venue that was a little too noisy for suburbanites who thought it might be fun to play at being city dwellers for a while. And you can feel its effects in certain local taverns, where patrons must be careful not to engage in unauthorized dancing.

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I find it odd that very little mention in either this story or the Wake Up piece posted by vdogg speaks in any detail about NorVa's impact. Isn't it a major attraction for young people?

Bobby Wright's determination to bring life to Granby Street certainly paid off, and despite the recent closing of his theatre, weekend business in nearby clubs and resturants flourishes. Hopefully, attitudes among city leaders will shift to strong support for a lively downtown.

http://www.portfolioweekly.com/Pages/InfoPage.php/iID/2724

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The problem with Hampton Roads is that it still has a "small town" mentality and downtown Norfolk while great is still so small. Until downtown grows beyond Granby and becomes less of a novelty run and controlled as a little enclave or gated community it will never be more than it is.

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The problem with Hampton Roads is that it still has a "small town" mentality and downtown Norfolk while great is still so small. Until downtown grows beyond Granby and becomes less of a novelty run and controlled as a little enclave or gated community it will never be more than it is.
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I think "small town mentality" is a term that is used more to describe HR as a whole than just Norfolk. As much as I hate to say it I think it is a very apt description of our area as it currently exist. This is changing slowly but it's hard to deny that some of the recent decisions in both Norfolk and Virginia Beach would have been handled differently in big cities that actually see themselves as such. The "small town mindset" is central to the identity crisis we are finding ourselves faced with. We are a very large metro both physically and population wise but much of our population and city leadership wishes to see us the other way, and will actually fight to achieve that vision.

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this is one of those reasons why I hate the effect Urban Renewal has had on that city. If that didn't happen and much of the street grid and much of the old buildings. I would of made extending the urban fabric farther a much easier process and thus given the city a much larger downtown to work with which in turn would of addressed the needs of the region on a bigger scale.

Granted this is all what ifs, but it is these things that has created this "small town" mentality they have today. Plus destroying so much of the city's history has forced the city to start from ground zero in the 50's which regardless of the history and age of Norfolk, in spirit, it is not much older than Virginia Beach. With that being said, that is a scary thought for that city because Pembroke could easily become the region's city center because Norfolk was so careless about destroying a key element that binds cities and makes them become bigger.

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I think "small town mentality" is a term that is used more to describe HR as a whole than just Norfolk. As much as I hate to say it I think it is a very apt description of our area as it currently exist. This is changing slowly but it's hard to deny that some of the recent decisions in both Norfolk and Virginia Beach would have been handled differently in big cities that actually see themselves as such. The "small town mindset" is central to the identity crisis we are finding ourselves faced with. We are a very large metro both physically and population wise but much of our population and city leadership wishes to see us the other way, and will actually fight to achieve that vision.
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http://alexmarshall.org/index.php?pageId=90

I just found this article...it's old but still insightful...kind of speaks to the "small town" mentality we have here..., ...the local govts. are not very progressive....the root of the problem -> we're seven separate cities that do not cooperate on all levels to achieve our goals....

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