Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[tozmervo]

12 minutes ago, uptownliving said:

The Concourse Renovation saga continues. City Council just approved a Contract Change with C-Design which basically doubles the value of the design contract for the A/B/C/D Concourse Renovation. Among the stated reasons for the contract change is that American Airlines is now requesting that the airport increase the gate hold rooms. For anyone that has used the airport in the past 10 years + it has been blatantly obvious the need for larger gate holding areas. I'm glad they will be doing something to finally expand the gate holding areas...but surprised it is being done as an add-on to the planned renovations.

I mean... are they going to come up with additional square footage out of thin air? I don't know how they get more chairs in without reducing retail/operations square footage, which already seems crazy tight.

[Miesian Corners]

1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

I mean... are they going to come up with additional square footage out of thin air? I don't know how they get more chairs in without reducing retail/operations square footage, which already seems crazy tight.

They'll either do what the did in Boston or what they did in Minneapolis-St Paul. In Boston, they built a new steel structure over the existing concourse that still allowed jetways to move and airplanes to park. they then ripped out sections of roof and walls to open the old facility into the new one. In MSP, they opened a new section of gates, which allowed for the closure of sections of one side of a concourse. That side was then bumped out the width of the pier by a third. I think CLT will do the latter. AA will widen Concourse A; when completed, they'll move in and close a section of B to widen it, complete, then C, etc. I saw a scheme out there once that had all of B Concourse widened its entire length on the west side.

[xapostrophe]

Just now, Miesian Corners said:

They'll either do what the did in Boston or what they did in Minneapolis-St Paul. In Boston, they built a new steel structure over the existing concourse that still allowed jetways to move and airplanes to park. they then ripped out sections of roof and walls to open the old facility into the new one. In MSP, they opened a new section of gates, which allowed for the closure of sections of one side of a concourse. That side was then bumped out the width of the pier by a third. I think CLT will do the latter. AA will widen Concourse A; when completed, they'll move in and close a section of B to widen it, complete, then C, etc. I saw a scheme out there once that had all of B Concourse widened its entire length on the west side.

This sound reasonable.  It also sounds like a huge project.  What would the costs be relative to the reno?  I would think...more than double.

[uptownliving]

Came across this nice graphic depicting American's Charlotte hub used in a recent presentation to investors. However I got a laugh that they grouped the Non-Stop to Florence SC with all of the European flights.

[tozmervo]

3 minutes ago, uptownliving said:

Came across this nice graphic depicting American's Charlotte hub used in a recent presentation to investors. However I got a laugh that they grouped the Non-Stop to Florence SC with all of the European flights.

Hah! To be fair, Florence SC's airport is probably the same size as Firenze's airport

[elrodvt]

I can't see BTV on there. That direct flight has really been nice for us.

[LKN704]

Yeah, BTV and SMF are both missing. 

Ottawa is also on it but was suspended last year. 

[Miesian Corners]

I spoke with a friend at AA's hub management and he said he thinks the plan is to bump out selected gate hold areas to the extent of existing exterior stairwells. 

[xapostrophe]

5 hours ago, Miesian Corners said:

I spoke with a friend at AA's hub management and he said he thinks the plan is to bump out selected gate hold areas to the extent of existing exterior stairwells. 

that wold be glorious.

[xapostrophe]

On 1/27/2017 at 9:52 AM, saamh said:

 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Nice scoop!

[CLT704]

Apparently, according to some galley gossip (reliable I know so take with a grain of salt), RDU is to become a Delta hub and American isn't too happy about that; with the new (but definitely unconfirmed) "hub" status, Delta is planning to move their PHL-LHR (which that cancelled for next March IIRC) to RDU. So I guess watch this space and see if any of it is true.

[ssh214]

5 hours ago, CLT704 said:

Apparently, according to some galley gossip (reliable I know so take with a grain of salt), RDU is to become a Delta hub and American isn't too happy about that; with the new (but definitely unconfirmed) "hub" status, Delta is planning to move their PHL-LHR (which that cancelled for next March IIRC) to RDU. So I guess watch this space and see if any of it is true.

I don't get why Delta would build up RDU when they dehubbed Memphis. And if they move the LHR flight to RDU would American discontinue their LHR flight (I know they have that corporate contract but maybe Delta would pick that up)? That may be good for Charlotte because AA loyalists would come to Charlotte instead of going through RDU... but maybe that won't make a difference for people wanting to take a direct flight for convenience and they'll just switch to Delta

[LKN704]

They are going to label it as a hub...just believe they have it labeled as a hub doesn't mean they are going to have 200 flights. I believe the operation will max out around 100 daily flights with most flights on DL Connection. The operation will cater to local O/D business traffic. You're not going to see RDU-AVL anytime soon, for example. 

 

[KJHburg]

First time I have seen the new FAA  tower. It is really rising. New 370 foot tower underway. 

[CLT704]

Shame its a pretty standard and boring design. Would have been great to see something like the tower at Bangkok's airport.

[Matthew.Brendan]

Taller than Ascent 

[SentioVenia]

According to this it will be the fifth-tallest in the world and second-tallest in the US.

Edited July 8, 2017 by SentioVenia

[cltcane]

AA is adding a Saturday-only winter seasonal flight on an A319 to Montrose, CO (MTJ) starting in mid-December.  If this is successful, it would be great to see CLT get similar service to other Western ski destinations like Aspen, Eagle/Vail, and Jackson Hole in future winter seasons.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2017/07/07/american-airlines-adds-seasonal-route-at-clt.html

 

[LKN704]

Interesting.

I'm surprised Montrose was chosen over EGE (Eagle/Vail) considering US used to fly CLT-EGE up until the late 2000s or so.

As for ASE (Aspen) I was under the impression that mainline aircraft could not fly there, only regional aircraft, which would struggle flying CLT-ASE.

[CLT2014]

On 7/8/2017 at 0:35 PM, LKN704 said:

Interesting.

I'm surprised Montrose was chosen over EGE (Eagle/Vail) considering US used to fly CLT-EGE up until the late 2000s or so.

As for ASE (Aspen) I was under the impression that mainline aircraft could not fly there, only regional aircraft, which would struggle flying CLT-ASE.

Delta is flying into Aspen from Atlanta since 2013 using Skywest as the operator, when Aspen lengthened their runway 1,000 feet. Now the CRJ-900 they are using doesn't have weight restrictions. Due to a wingspan limit of 95 feet, only regional planes can fly into Aspen even with the runway extension. 

I think what will limit CLT receiving service to Aspen is the regional operators like PSA, Piedmont, and Air Wisconsin that operate the vast majority of the regional American Eagle flights at CLT do not have pilots with extensive mountain flying experience. Aspen is a challenging airport with rapidly changing weather conditions and mountains surrounding the runway. Regional airlines like Skywest and Republic have their most advanced pilots experienced in mountain flying operate the flights into Aspen. Pilots who know the airport train pilots who haven't flown into their before for several flights before cutting them lose to fly on their own. These airlines have several mountain destinations though besides Aspen which require extra experience and skill though so they have a sub-group of pilots they can regularly rotate through to operate a route like Aspen. For CLT, PSA would have to train pilots to land at Aspen and get experience at the airport, for just one mountain destination. Having a sub-group like that would not be efficient.

If we got Aspen service, AA would most likely ask Skywest to rotate come crew through the hub to operate a flight so PSA doesn't have to train a crew for mountain flying. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by CLT2014

[ChessieCat]

On 6/24/2017 at 5:41 PM, LKN704 said:

They are going to label it as a hub...just believe they have it labeled as a hub doesn't mean they are going to have 200 flights. I believe the operation will max out around 100 daily flights with most flights on DL Connection. The operation will cater to local O/D business traffic. You're not going to see RDU-AVL anytime soon, for example. 

 

Delta has a big order for 75 Bombardier CS100 aircraft which hits the sweet spot for "focus" cities like RDU and BOS given all their O/D business traffic.  The smaller economy and connecting traffic won't require Delta to divert the smallest mainline aircraft (A319/B737-700/B717) from the megahubs.  

The CSeries is performing admirably for Swiss Airlines and passengers love it.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta exercise all 50 options for the CSeries with some CS300's thrown in too.

[CLT2014]

On 6/24/2017 at 5:41 PM, LKN704 said:

They are going to label it as a hub...just believe they have it labeled as a hub doesn't mean they are going to have 200 flights. I believe the operation will max out around 100 daily flights with most flights on DL Connection. The operation will cater to local O/D business traffic. You're not going to see RDU-AVL anytime soon, for example. 

RDU is an interesting operation for Delta, clearly built to handle the local O/D traffic on express aircraft that Delta can cheaply place at RDU. Mainline Delta Airlines is still only the third largest at the airport after American and Southwest. It is all the little Delta Connection planes operated by their 6 regional airline partners that have boosted the flight count and make Delta the largest at the airport, but it is still a relatively small station for Delta + Delta Connection in terms of passengers carried. 

Baltimore, Las Vegas, Orlando, Washington National, San Diego, Phoenix, Portland, San Francisco, AWas etc... all just a few of the airports that Delta has more passengers at than RDU. Orlando is nearly 4 times bigger, San Francisco is 2.5 times bigger, etc....

Edited July 10, 2017 by CLT2014

[xapostrophe]

3 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Delta is flying into Aspen from Atlanta since 2013 using Skywest as the operator, when Aspen lengthened their runway 1,000 feet. Now the CRJ-900 they are using doesn't have weight restrictions. Due to a wingspan limit of 95 feet, only regional planes can fly into Aspen even with the runway extension. 

I think what will limit CLT receiving service to Aspen is the regional operators like PSA, Piedmont, and Air Wisconsin that operate the vast majority of the regional American Eagle flights at CLT do not have pilots with extensive mountain flying experience. Aspen is a challenging airport with rapidly changing weather conditions and mountains surrounding the runway. Regional airlines like Skywest and Republic have their most advanced pilots experienced in mountain flying operate the flights into Aspen. Pilots who know the airport train pilots who haven't flown into their before for several flights before cutting them lose to fly on their own. These airlines have several mountain destinations though besides Aspen which require extra experience and skill though so they have a sub-group of pilots they can regularly rotate through to operate a route like Aspen. For CLT, PSA would have to train pilots to land at Aspen and get experience at the airport, for just one mountain destination. Having a sub-group like that would not be efficient.

If we got Aspen service, AA would most likely ask Skywest to rotate come crew through the hub to operate a flight so PSA doesn't have to train a crew for mountain flying. 

i  work for psa.  there has been talk of us getting a program put together for aspen and other destinations, but i believe it is more likely to have skywest or another regional who already has the program in effect operate it.   skywest, envoy and expressjet/asa already operates from charlotte occasionally, it wouldnt really be a big surprise to see them come in and operate those flights.  too much money to start up a program for one route for us i think.

[xapostrophe]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

Delta has a big order for 75 Bombardier CS100 aircraft which hits the sweet spot for "focus" cities like RDU and BOS given all their O/D business traffic.  The smaller economy and connecting traffic won't require Delta to divert the smallest mainline aircraft (A319/B737-700/B717) from the megahubs.  

The CSeries is performing admirably for Swiss Airlines and passengers love it.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta exercise all 50 options for the CSeries with some CS300's thrown in too.

Take it how you will, I interviewed with DAL about a year ago and asked about the CSeries and where they might go.  They indicated at that time that they would be mostly on the west coast, maybe Seattle or SLC?   Thought that was odd, but who knows.  (this came from the head of fleet planning who I met while I was there)