Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[nakers2]

 Minor aestetic detail, but one of note, why is the ceiling of the bus pick up area near the front of the terminal white? It’s already showing soot and dust from all the exhaust. Wouldnt gray, or even just plain concrete looked better? 

[atlrvr]

New seasonal flight to Guadalajara on American announced today.

[LKN704]

To me that is surprising. I honestly didn't think the Volaris announcement would lead to an AA response, simply because GDL traffic is traditionally low-yielding VFR (visiting friends & relatives traffic).

My bet? AA forces Volaris off the route and then cancels CLT-GDL soon after, or doesn't bring the flight back for a second season. 

[cltcane]

37 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

My bet? AA forces Volaris off the route and then cancels CLT-GDL soon after, or doesn't bring the flight back for a second season. 

It could be a test of the market, but I agree, unfortunately.  Rountrip fares from CLT to GDL on AA (with a connection on DFW) are routinely $600 while Volaris is offering $300 fares.  This looks like a clear move by AA to defend their home turf and limit competition from CLT to Mexico by sticking an underutilized A319 on a route for a few months to run Volaris off.

I could be wrong, but unless CLT-GDL performs really well, I wouldn’t count on it sticking around or coming back if Volaris throws in the towel after a four month fight with AA.

All that said, here’s to hoping that Volaris stays and AA adds the route year-round!

[CLT2014]

On 8/31/2018 at 6:20 PM, LKN704 said:

My bet? AA forces Volaris off the route and then cancels CLT-GDL soon after, or doesn't bring the flight back for a second season. 

Volaris is priced at $300 round trip on a nonstop to Guadalajara this winter. 

AA is priced at $603 for their nonstops.

So unless AA changes their pricing, Volaris will likely go out full with local Charlotte residents traveling to see family in Mexico, while the American flight will have less than 5% local travelers and just be 95% connections from cities without a direct flight to Guadalajara like Raleigh, Greenville, Richmond, Columbia, etc...

Now if AA lowered their price to $300, I'd say they are actually trying to drive Volaris off. In the meantime, it looks like Volaris is trying to win Charlotte fliers while AA is just leveraging our airport to connect people going to other cities and could care less about winning CLT based travelers.

Edited September 5, 2018 by CLT2014

[CltFlyer]

15 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Volaris is priced at $300 round trip on a nonstop to Guadalajara this winter. 

AA is priced at $603 for their nonstops.

So unless AA changes their pricing, Volaris will likely go out full with local Charlotte residents traveling to see family in Mexico, while the American flight will have less than 5% local travelers and just be 95% connections from cities without a direct flight to Guadalajara like Raleigh, Greenville, Richmond, Columbia, etc...

Now if AA lowered their price to $300, I'd say they are actually trying to drive Volaris off. In the meantime, it looks like Volaris is trying to win Charlotte fliers while AA is just leveraging our airport to connect people going to other cities and could care less about winning CLT based travelers.

Hopefully the population around CLT is enough to support Volaris.  I have to imagine they were hoping they could draw passengers from Raleigh, Greenville, and Columbia. etc....and that together they could fill planes.

The timing and pricing of the flights are different though so hopefully that draws passengers that AA wouldn't.   On a related note I have not so positive reviews of Volaris on various websites.   Hopefully  the price can negate these negatives in their target consumer base.

[xapostrophe]

Quote

 

CLT facebook announces A concourse renovations to begin on the 10th.

FINALLY

[KJHburg]

^^ Here is the story on the above mentioned Concourse A work. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/09/07/another-piece-of-clts-2-5b-overhaul-ramps-up-next.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2018-09-07&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1536354536&j=83707911

[CltFlyer]

Regarding the 7 new gates AA will receive.  AA sees potential for up to  75 more flights!

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/american-airlines/2018/09/05/american-airlines-loves-dfw-airport-hub

I imagine most of them could possibly be mainline flights as well!

Also, Volaris' director of market development made a statement on the addition of AA on CLT- GDL

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2018/09/01/volaris-announces-guadalajara-route-at-americans-charlotte-hub-so-american-does-the-same/amp/

Seems to be a positive statement IMO.   Also worthy of noting.   Volaris has only ever discontinued one US city, and that was when they moved their South Florida flight from FLL to MIA.   This tells me they do their research and should be fine.

Edited September 8, 2018 by CltFlyer

[csweet]

Frontier announced the ending of their AUS/SAT routes, my guess is the winter season? Hopefully 2 new routes from FA start up.

[xapostrophe]

2 hours ago, csweet said:

Frontier announced the ending of their AUS/SAT routes, my guess is the winter season? Hopefully 2 new routes from FA start up.

i have no way of knowing how full those flights were but i will say that walking past their gates the areas always looked pretty empty.    

[LKN704]

To be fair, it's not like the flights were daily. The flights only operated thrice weekly each. AA still has multiple nonstops each day to both AUS and SAT for those who need to get there nonstop. 

[xapostrophe]

Took a walk down to A today.  Looks like they are moving Delta from the north side of A to the South.   My guess is they will close off that side and renovate it first before switching sides and moving Delta back to the north side.  I have no clue how they will handle the hallway area, probably the same way the are handling B.

[deleted]

50 minutes ago, xapostrophe said:

Took a walk down to A today.  Looks like they are moving Delta from the north side of A to the South.   My guess is they will close off that side and renovate it first before switching sides and moving Delta back to the north side.  I have no clue how they will handle the hallway area, probably the same way the are handling B.

This sounds like a great way to handle the renovation (far less disruptive and much quicker).  Hope you are right.

[LKN704]

How many gates exactly does DL control in A? If AA gets 7 next year that would mean DL would control 6. Thats an awful lot for an outstation. 

I wonder if the gates in A will be converted to CUTE gates after the renovation is complete or if they will remain under airline control. 

Theoretically the renovation should be done in a relatively shorter time, not only because there are less gates, but also less passenger movement, less concessions, and they can have DL flip their ops around. 

[xapostrophe]

2 hours ago, LKN704 said:

How many gates exactly does DL control in A? If AA gets 7 next year that would mean DL would control 6. Thats an awful lot for an outstation. 

I wonder if the gates in A will be converted to CUTE gates after the renovation is complete or if they will remain under airline control. 

Theoretically the renovation should be done in a relatively shorter time, not only because there are less gates, but also less passenger movement, less concessions, and they can have DL flip their ops around. 

Delta seems to use at least 7 or 8 gates.  I see them everywhere down there.  I think they park RON aircraft on certain gates and then store them there until they depart rather than reposition them to a hard stand area.  This morning there were 3 aircraft on gates and in those boarding areas there were no chairs.   Seems like they have free reign to do whatever they please now that they essentially have the entire A to themselves.  I imagine this will change during construction.

In other news the panera, NODA, smash burger and starbuck(s) down in A north have still made what appears to be ZERO progress toward opening.   I have NEVER seen so little progress on a construction project that wasn't deliberately idled.  It is  bizarre that there is no rush to get some food options opened up down there for the JetBlue, United and other passengers.  I had two people ask me where they could eat this morning and I had to tell them that they needed to return in the direction they came from or go to Wendy's.  I imagine that is pretty frustrating for people.

[Midwoodian]

What is being built in the foreground left?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xapostrophe]

17 hours ago, Midwoodian said:

What is being built in the foreground left?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like a baggage sorting facility.  As well as some kind of storage for Piedmont ground operations.

[csweet]

Does anyone have any updates on Concourse A Phase II?  I know it isn't supposed to start for a while but was trying to find updates on it

[dubone]

2 hours ago, csweet said:

Does anyone have any updates on Concourse A Phase II?  I know it isn't supposed to start for a while but was trying to find updates on it

Quote

CLT follows a demand driven approach. Projects are built when the growth requires it. Charlotte Douglas plans to add up to 16 more gates to Concourse A by 2023 during phase two and three of the expansion. The Airport currently has 97 gates with the ability to accommodate 102 aircraft. In coming years, Concourses B, C and E also will be expanded for a total of 126 gates by 2025.

http://www.cltairport.com/News/Pages/CharlotteDouglasInternationalAirportConcourseAExpansionOpenstoPassengers.aspx

http://www.cltairport.com/News/Pages/DestinationCLTProjects.aspx

Status:	Planned
Description:	This project will continue expansion of Concourse A to the north for an additional 16 gates.
Duration:	24 months
Milestones:	Design 2018 - 2019 Construction start - 2021 Completion - 2023
Cost:	$300,000,000
Funding Source:	Future Airport Financing

[videtur quam contuor]

three hundred million dollars

[csweet]

If it's demand driven, shouldn't we see some action taking place for Phase II? lol

[dubone]

First phase apparently cost $200m.  I'd almost expect it to be more than 300 since it includes an additional terminal entrance. 

1 minute ago, csweet said:

If it's demand driven, shouldn't we see some action taking place for Phase II? lol

Planning includes budget forecasting and demand forecasting.  If they had the budget or the market for all at once, it would have been built all at once.   They're designing it now, so it is what it is.  

[deleted]

21 minutes ago, dubone said:

First phase apparently cost $200m.  I'd almost expect it to be more than 300 since it includes an additional terminal entrance. 

Planning includes budget forecasting and demand forecasting.  If they had the budget or the market for all at once, it would have been built all at once.   They're designing it now, so it is what it is.  

It seems like the demand for all of these projects already exists.  The risks in building it all now are that future demand will be less (see Pittsburgh and St Louis as fairly recent examples of de-hubbed airports, both of which I know everyone is aware of) and/or that the cost of the expansion at once will necessarily increase costs to airlines (which could lead to diminished future demand).  If Charlotte was assured of long-term hub status they would indeed be building it all now because the demand is there.

I think we are saying the same thing and am confident that you know more about this than me.  Anecdotally, it would be hard to walk through any part of CLT today and not believe that they have the demand to fill any reasonable (<25%) capacity increase immediately.  If they had 50% more gates/overall terminal capacity, I suspect they would quickly use it.  The only thing holding back growth these days seems to be capacity.

[LKN704]

The design and construction for phase 2 will be more costly and take longer to complete because it involves building an entire new terminal and all the infrastructure that comes along with that. 

I would say Phase 2 is essentially low risk in regards to AA’s operation. It just gives AA access to the remainder of the gates that DL is currently using in Concourse A.