Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[NCMike1981]

Here's an idea, how about keeping things as they have always been? The airport is well utilized and well managed, why rock the boat?

Edited April 26, 2013 by NCMike1981

[ssh214]

Here's an idea, how about keeping things as they have always been? The airport is well utilized and well managed, why rock the boat?

The whole issue is because of Jerry Orr's impending retirement. If he was younger I would 100% agree with you

[15895]

And the overrated award of the year goes to...

[kermit]

Perhaps a scenario like the airport leasing propsal in Austin (to finance LRT) was in the back of many pro-authority folks minds.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/city-ponders-leasing-airport-to-raise-rail-cash/nXXGH/

While I am superduper pro-rail, this would have scared the bejezzus out of me in Charlotte.

[Miesian Corners]

The whole issue is because of Jerry Orr's impending retirement. If he was younger I would 100% agree with you

It's not like the man's a god.  There are other talented people on a planet of 6 billion that could probably run it (and do a better job).

[15895]

I do wonder how smart it is making the Secretary of DOT mad about transportation issues

[ssh214]

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11915951/1/us-airways-move-to-oneworld-brings-qatar-airlines-to-philly.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

 

So Philly is getting Qatar Airlines as a result of this merger...

 

The article also says Phoenix will likely get LAN.

 

But in terms of Charlotte the article speculates that Lufthansa might leave (I doubt the author of the article realizes the enormous German corporate presence here, but they may still end up leaving and US Airways simply adds a flight to Munich) and be replaced by British Airways. I'm really surprised though that LAN is considering Phoenix of Charlotte as Phoenix in my opinion will suffer the most as a result of the merger because it is right in between Los Angeles and Dallas...

[LKN704]

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11915951/1/us-airways-move-to-oneworld-brings-qatar-airlines-to-philly.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

 

So Philly is getting Qatar Airlines as a result of this merger...

 

The article also says Phoenix will likely get LAN.

 

But in terms of Charlotte the article speculates that Lufthansa might leave (I doubt the author of the article realizes the enormous German corporate presence here, but they may still end up leaving and US Airways simply adds a flight to Munich) and be replaced by British Airways. I'm really surprised though that LAN is considering Phoenix of Charlotte as Phoenix in my opinion will suffer the most as a result of the merger because it is right in between Los Angeles and Dallas...

I don't really like the way the article is written.

 

LAN will never enter Phoenix...there are just bigger and better places to fly into. LAN doesn't even serve Dallas, AA's largest hub. Plus, LAN serves LAX, which offers practically all relevant connections on AA that PHX will. CLT has a greater chance of getting LAN than PHX.

 

I've discussed BA in CLT before...look for an announcement probably this fall or winter. Equipment will likely start off with a 763 or 787.

 

Lufthansa may very well leave Charlotte, but I think they will attempt to continue the route, or at least transfer the flight to Frankfurt after the codeshare ends.

[cltbwimob]

http://worldairlinenews.com/2013/05/07/qatar-airways-is-coming-to-philadelphia/

 

 

I hesitate to post this, as I don't know how reliable the source is, but according to this article Qatar Airways may add CLT and MIA service soon.

 

For those who don't know, Qatar Airways is adding service to PHL next year.  The airline is also joining Oneworld, adding a ton of long haul aircraft to their fleet, and  considering investing a substantial amount of money in IAG (the parent company of British Airways and Iberia).

Edited May 8, 2013 by cltbwimob

[cltbwimob]

I've discussed BA in CLT before...look for an announcement probably this fall or winter. Equipment will likely start off with a 763 or 787.

Do you have some insider information on this?

[15895]

CLT seems like a waiste of a 787 for BA. Qatar seems Like a not in a million years scenario; that'd be soooooooo awesome!!!!!! That'd be a huge deal

Edited May 9, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[ssh214]

Lufthansa flies to Munich to cater to BMW, which has a huge plant in Greenville. I really believe even if Lufthansa leaves the new American will have flights from Charlotte to Munich...

[HopHead]

Qatar flying out of Charlotte would be a game changer for our airport... It would expose the area to a whole new part of the world, even if most of the O/D traffic isn't from here. Hope that lead turns into something. 

[15895]

I'm surprised (or maybe I just didn't see it) that CO or CBJ didn't do an article about Asheville suing to stop the State from taking over its water bill and if Asheville is unsuccessful in keep control, they plan on trying to be compensated. Asheville leaders also said they feel confident with the backing of "other" cities and municipalities in NC, they'll have solid support.

The good news is Tillis Is making it clear that the airport authority as is will not come to a vote in its current version but will change to give Charlotte more representation. Carlee said he wasn't taking legal action off the table and we can accomplish all the concerns of all parties in the region without the authority.

I also find it interesting that when city council ask Hazel and others "What has the city got in the way of" or "name an example of when city council has been a hindrance to the airport" even Hazel doesn't have an example...

I liked it when a council member told Hazel that it seemed Hazel came in under the impression that an airport authority is always a better form of government and which airport does he think should be ran by a city. Of course he didn't name one.

[WesleyHeightsWay]

When will USAir & American begin to operate as a single company? And are flights booked via USAir (for next spring) subject to change because of the merger?

Have a direct flight booked that I hope doesn't disappear as part of the merger.

[allthingsplanes]

_{When will USAir & American begin to operate as a single company? And are flights booked via USAir (for next spring) subject to change because of the merger?}

Have a direct flight booked that I hope doesn't disappear as part of the merger.

 

_{It's my understanding that the merger is slated to be finalized sometime around September.  But once that happens they will still operate as 2 entities for another year or 18 months, with changes happening throughout that time.  e.g. Moving gates to be side by side, moving planes around, combining frequent flier plans, US joining OneWorld.} 

 

_{I would be surprised if many routes were dropped / changed in that time frame.  Furthermore, I believe they wouldn't make any changes until the next "schedule" comes out.  So if you've already been able to book a flight, then I would think it's safe (imho)...}

[ScottCLT]

CLT seems like a waiste of a 787 for BA. Qatar seems Like a not in a million years scenario; that'd be soooooooo awesome!!!!!! That'd be a huge deal

I recall hearing that the 4th runway at CLT wasn't long enough to accommodate a 787...or was that an A380 I am thinking of? I just remember that I thought it seemed a bit short-sighted to not build it the extra length. But I could be wrong.

As for Qatar, I doubt that Houston would have much more O/D traffic than here. I think Qatar usually flies there for connections. I would certainly utilized the flight...I went to Qatar twice last year and two other times to Saudi/Bahrain/Kuwait/Dubai. All those are an hour-long connection flight from Doha. And the new Doha airport will be an amazing connection terminal (even though the current Doha airport is abysmal). It would be amazing to leave straight from Charlotte and end up in that region in just one flight, but I realize I am in the very small minority of Charlotteans that do business on-site in the Middle East.

On that note, I think a Royal Jordanian flight to Amman would be more likely given their OneWorld membership, and that would be just fine with me too!

[LKN704]

I just can't see Qatar here..the PDEW (passengers daily each way) on the route is practically zero. Emirates to DXB is much more likely, but still not probable, especially in today's economy.

 

I recall hearing that the 4th runway at CLT wasn't long enough to accommodate a 787...or was that an A380 I am thinking of? I just remember that I thought it seemed a bit short-sighted to not build it the extra length. But I could be wrong.

As for Qatar, I doubt that Houston would have much more O/D traffic than here. I think Qatar usually flies there for connections. I would certainly utilized the flight...I went to Qatar twice last year and two other times to Saudi/Bahrain/Kuwait/Dubai. All those are an hour-long connection flight from Doha. And the new Doha airport will be an amazing connection terminal (even though the current Doha airport is abysmal). It would be amazing to leave straight from Charlotte and end up in that region in just one flight, but I realize I am in the very small minority of Charlotteans that do business on-site in the Middle East.

On that note, I think a Royal Jordanian flight to Amman would be more likely given their OneWorld membership, and that would be just fine with me too!

Boeing 787s are smaller than 777s (which BA used to fly here) and A346s (which LH flies here). They are about the same size as an A330. They would have no problem taking off here in CLT.

 

Remember IAH's metro population is currently 6 million people. About 3 times as larger than Metrolina. Plus, Qatar is in the Middle East (think oil) and Houston is the oil capital of the US. There is plenty of O/D on the route. Qatar wouldn't fly there for connections anyway. Qatar is going to join Oneworld and IAH is a Star Alliance hub.

Do you have some insider information on this?

Kind of. I'm not exactly positive and I'm not giving any guarantees, but my source has been right about several other things at CLT.

 

CLT seems like a waiste of a 787 for BA.

 

Not really. BA bought the 787s to replace the 763s, which will be on their way out in the coming years.

[15895]

American Airlines and BA are one airline over the Atlantic. Hub to hub (which is a lot more significant than just an alliance hub) and the 787's are great for thin & ultra long haul flights.

I wouldn't be surprised if BA didn't return to Charlotte as American might have better suited aircraft. American's 777's or 767's seem better suited for the route than a 787.

Delta & Air France are 1over the Atlantic also & Delta now operates Paris-Philadelphia (if I'm not mistaken) replacing Air France (at least a couple years ago, don't know since). PHL lost the Air France metal to Delta.

So there's a good chance we may not see BA here in color which would be a bummer (for the sake of novelty). I'd loveeee to see Iberia here!!!! (hence my username Air Nostrum which is Iberia's express airline). Which Iberia & BA are a merged airline with seperate identities which also means Iberia & American also are 1 airline over the Atlantic. Which also means there's a chance we could see Iberia!!!!

Imagine how cool it'd be If we had American, British, Iberia & Lufthansa here that'd be a site to see!

[Miesian Corners]

You'll see BA back in CLT.  Double daily service to LHR, one on BA, one on AA.  

[allthingsplanes]

I just can't see Qatar here..the PDEW (passengers daily each way) on the route is practically zero. Emirates to DXB is much more likely, but still not probable, especially in today's economy.

I agree.  I don't see Qatar here for a VERY long time, if ever.  Even with the OneWorld connection, they're still more likely to enter several other US markets than Charlotte.  Don't underestimate the amount of money that flows directly from Houston to the Gulf region - thus those airlines.

 

 

You'll see BA back in CLT.  Double daily service to LHR, one on BA, one on AA.  

 

I also tend to agree with this and hope it's the case.  I don't think BA will fly here with one of their 787s - they don't have enough right now to start on this route.  Hopefully we'll see a 747 here in Charlotte!

[ssh214]

I agree.  I don't see Qatar here for a VERY long time, if ever.  Even with the OneWorld connection, they're still more likely to enter several other US markets than Charlotte.  Don't underestimate the amount of money that flows directly from Houston to the Gulf region - thus those airlines.

 

 

 

I also tend to agree with this and hope it's the case.  I don't think BA will fly here with one of their 787s - they don't have enough right now to start on this route.  Hopefully we'll see a 747 here in Charlotte!

 

Yea I really don't believe Qatar will come here, they already serve including Philadelphia three of the new American markets (NYC, Chicago, Philly) and also serve Washington Dulles. I don't believe there will be many people who would want to travel to the destinations that Charlotte serves uniquely. 

 

Unfortunately, I and I am really not trying be negative, I don't see the "growth" that Doug Parker sees for Charlotte. I certainly can see things staying the status quo with the exception of losing a few of the routes to Miami and gaining a few Midwest flights, but I don't see much growth internationally. 

 

However, I am hoping and wishing that LAN still comes here, I really can see Iberia coming here (despite their financial woes) and replacing the seasonal service Usairways currently offers to Madrid and replacing it with full year service, I do believe Lufthansa will stay as I said earlier because of BMW and their headquarters in Munich (they will probably switch to an A330 though), and I can see BA coming here with a 767 flight maybe back to Gatwick, giving Charlotte a Heathrow and Gatwick flight (I could be completely wrong on that).

 

I also see Insel Air leaving because of their presence in Miami, there would be no need for them flying to Charlotte at that point. 

[15895]

US Airways has been flying Charlotte-Frankfurt since the 90's before Lufthansa. It makes me pretty hopeful that we keep hefty service to Germany where American Airlines is extremely weak.

The only reason I think we might not see a BA flight is because of the JV British/Iberia has with American. On the same token, we could see several BA & no American or just both

Edit: double post

Edited May 10, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[15895]

US Airways has been flying Charlotte-Frankfurt since the 90's before Lufthansa. It makes me pretty hopeful that we keep hefty service to Germany where American Airlines is extremely weak.

The only reason I think we might not see a BA flight is because of the JV British/Iberia has with American. On the same token, we could see several BA & no American or just both. Depends on which airline has more slack and the better equipment for the route. Same with Madrid. I prayyyyy for Iberia metal to come here!

As far as growth, we'll obviously score the Midwestern cities that US doesn't serve (like Oklahoma City).

We might gain bolstered traffic from the sheer size of the airline. Maybe less connections at O'hare and Fort Worth and more connections In CLT for Southeastern flows.

Brazilian flights, it helps that the FAA has to approve transfers. For example, the FAA has to approve merging US Airways' and Americans' international Route pairings. Charlotte provides the benefit of adding more capacity to Sao Paulo & Rio De Janeiro. Were American/US to decide they wanted to transfer the Charlotte-Sao Paulo flight to say New York or Miami, they'd have to ask the DOT. In which Case the DOT most likely would not approve that transfer and let all airlines bid on a USA-Brazil flight. So that might be our saving grace on Brazil.

As far as the Rail yard to be located at the airport, that might help us maintain and gain international flights. US Airways' makes a lot of money on certain flights because of cargo (like Philadelphia-Manchester which from what I hear is a gold mine because of the cargo). While the cargo/freight from the rail yard may not be enough to warrant FedEx or other cargo airlines, it could be enough for American Airlines to continue flying to our weaker routes or start new international destinations or upgrade current flights to handle more cargo. But I'm not too familiar with the workings of freight yards and I'm really basing off that opinion based on how gung ho Mr. Orr is on the freight yard.

Edited May 10, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[ssh214]

One other thing I was thinking about t

 

US Airways has been flying Charlotte-Frankfurt since the 90's before Lufthansa. It makes me pretty hopeful that we keep hefty service to Germany where American Airlines is extremely weak.


The only reason I think we might not see a BA flight is because of the JV British/Iberia has with American. On the same token, we could see several BA & no American or just both. Depends on which airline has more slack and the better equipment for the route. Same with Madrid. I prayyyyy for Iberia metal to come here!


As far as growth, we'll obviously score the Midwestern cities that US doesn't serve (like Oklahoma City).

We might gain bolstered traffic from the sheer size of the airline. Maybe less connections at O'hare and Fort Worth and more connections In CLT for Southeastern flows.

Brazilian flights, it helps that the FAA has to approve transfers. For example, the FAA has to approve merging US Airways' and Americans' international Route pairings. Charlotte provides the benefit of adding more capacity to Sao Paulo & Rio De Janeiro. Were American/US to decide they wanted to transfer the Charlotte-Sao Paulo flight to say New York or Miami, they'd have to ask the DOT. In which Case the DOT most likely would not approve that transfer and let all airlines bid on a USA-Brazil flight. So that might be our saving grace on Brazil.


As far as the Rail yard to be located at the airport, that might help us maintain and gain international flights. US Airways' makes a lot of money on certain flights because of cargo (like Philadelphia-Manchester which from what I hear is a gold mine because of the cargo). While the cargo/freight from the rail yard may not be enough to warrant FedEx or other cargo airlines, it could be enough for American Airlines to continue flying to our weaker routes or start new international destinations or upgrade current flights to handle more cargo. But I'm not too familiar with the workings of freight yards and I'm really basing off that opinion based on how gung ho Mr. Orr is on the freight yard.

One other thing I just thought of with you mentioning the rail yard is Asian service. Currently the Southeast does not have great access to the Asian markets with I think only Atlanta having just flights to Tokyo and Seoul and Washington having only flights to Tokyo and Seoul I believe. If cargo services are going to increase I see a huge opportunity for Cathay Pacific to enter Charlotte to use that as their gateway to Southeast; especially with the increased presence of Chinese firms in Charlotte. (pure speculation on this and is simply a thought)