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Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

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I think Charlotte is one of the uglier airports.  It seems a nascar theme prevails everywhere, and a lot of the common areas look worn.  Looks like it was built on the cheap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, I owe you an apology...went to the airport for the first time in awhile..and the NASCAR theme has gotten out of hand...with the worst being the "racing wall" put in on the access road right before the the BG Parkway interchange.

But, good news....the pea green carpet in baggage claim has finally been replaced! YAY. (Maybe they did that a long time ago...but I haven't flown out of CLT in a few months)

Now...we just have to figure out how to get our baggage from the plane to the baggage claim quicker...

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Anyone seen the new Daily deck?

It has purple accent lights all over it and blue "landing" lights that flash all over it. It looks really neat.

Some people may think that it is tacky, but I think it is one of the things Charlotte (the city) needs to make it look little less sterile and conservative.

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I finally flew into CLT a few months ago for the first time (we've been driving from NY for our other visits) and I have to say that the airport was nice. Managable, friendly, pretty up to date and pretty convenient. Would be nice to have more mass-transit options. How about a monorail down the center of 485 with light rail "spokes" to uptown!

Seriously, in regards to the original question, here's what i don't understand. CLT is the number 2 banking center of the country. NY is number 1. With all the business travel that I would imagine is going on for all of those headquarters, why hasn't there been a need for expansion, increased number of flights and introduction of a low-cost carrier to CLT? Flights to and from CLT are VERY expensive? ANyone know?

R

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the businesses have been willing to pay the high fares for the most part. The issue is that leisure travelers don't, so they often fly out of greensboro, greenville/spartanburg, or even raleigh/durham. That somewhat dampens charlotte airport's size. It will be interesting to see how much all that changes with USAirways + America West strategy of being a coast to coast low cost airline.

the monorail idea is cool...but there are much more details of the actual plans in this thread:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2490

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Charlotte will never be an Atlanta, but neither will London.  Atlanta is the busiest passenger airport in the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is Atlanta a hub airport? or It it the busiest airport in the world as a destination?

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I'm not so sure, because it wasn't very long ago that Charlotte wasn't on the radar at all for airports. Less than 10 years ago, there were few overseas flights, now there are daily flights overseas. It has jumped a lot up the list. I also doubt if it will be like Hartsfield, but theres nothing wrong with being second or third. I mean if Atlanta has beaten O'Harre, and it has, who can stop it??

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Feb. 2005 Rank

Airport Name

Feb. 2005 Enplanements

Feb. 2004 Rank

Feb. 2004 Enplanements

1

Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson Int'l

2,875,006

1

2,781,922

2

Chicago O'Hare Int'l

2,139,698

2

2,199,452

3

Dallas-Fort Worth Int'l

1,766,234

3

1,885,096

4

Los Angeles Int'l

1,467,862

4

1,475,784

5

Las Vegas McCarran Int'l

1,450,159

5

1,434,267

6

Phoenix Sky Harbor Int'l

1,414,953

6

1,400,837

7

Denver Int'l

1,403,118

7

1,390,280

8

Orlando Int'l

1,244,552

8

1,166,062

9

Minneapolis-St.Paul Int'l

1,191,508

9

1,155,298

10

Detroit Metro-Wayne County

1,127,356

10

1,072,676

Edited by Raintree21

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Is Atlanta a hub airport? or It it the busiest airport in the world as a destination?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ATL is a hub for Delta...their biggest hub.

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I believe this is about 10 years old so I'm not sure exactly how accurate it is, but it's the only list of Hubs I could find.

"Air Traveler's Handbook"

* = city is monopolized by airline

# = main hub of the airline.

Alaska Airlines (AS): Anchorage (ANC)#, SEA

America West (HP): Phoenix (PHX)#, Las Vega$ (LAS), Columbus OH (CMH)

American Airlines (AA): Dallas/Ft. Worth (DFW)#, Raleigh/Durham (RDU)*, SJC*, SJU, ORD, BNA,

Continental Airlines (CO): Newark (EWR)#, Cleveland (CLE)*, IAH, DEN, MSY

Delta Airlines (DL): Atlanta (ATL)*#, Salt Lake City (SLC)*, DFW, CVG, LAX, JFK and FRA (Frankfurt, FRG), Orlando FL (MCO).

Midwest Express (YX): MKE

Northwest Airlines (NW): Minneapolis/St. Paul (MSP)#, DTW*, Memphis (MEM)*, Milwaukee (MKE)*, BOS, NRT (Tokyo Narita).

Southwest Airlines (WN): Chicago (MDW), St. Louis (STL), Dallas Love (DAL), Houston Hobby (HOU), PHX, ABQ

TWA (TW): St. Louis (STL)*#, New York (JFK), Paris (ORY or CDG)

USAir (US): Pittsburgh (PIT)*#, Philadelphia (PHL), Charlotte (CLT)*,

Baltimore (BWI)*, LAX, SFO, SYR, IND

United Airlines (UA): Chicago#, DEN, Washington Dulles (IAD), SEA, SFO, Raleigh, Tokyo, LHR (London Heathrow)

Edited by Raintree21

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Do you guys think that the USair-America west merger will have an impact on the future size and the flights per day from Charlotte Douglas?

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I believe this is about 10 years old so I'm not sure exactly how accurate it is, but it's the only list of Hubs I could find.

"Air Traveler's Handbook"

* = city is monopolized by airline

# = main hub of the airline.

  USAir (US): Pittsburgh (PIT)*#, Philadelphia (PHL), Charlotte (CLT)*,

      Baltimore (BWI)*, LAX, SFO, SYR, IND

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's interesting to see that 10 years ago Pittsburgh was considered USAir's "main hub", but now it would be just a secondary under the new merger and US Airways was considering eliminating all together under their bankruptcy restructuring.

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Do you guys think that the USair-America west merger will have an impact on the future size and the flights per day from Charlotte Douglas?

Charlotte Douglas is getting bigger at the expense of other airports (Las Vegas and others) it will be THE hub.

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Seriously, in regards to the original question, here's what i don't understand. CLT is the number 2 banking center of the country. NY is number 1. With all the business travel that I would imagine is going on for all of those headquarters, why hasn't there been a need for expansion, increased number of flights and introduction of a low-cost carrier to CLT? Flights to and from CLT are VERY expensive? ANyone know?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's very little need for expansion at CLT. On a global scale, no other city the size of Charlotte has as much air service. On an annual basis, CLT has more departures than Los Angeles (LAX), Newark (EWR), Amsterdam (AMS), Toronto (YYZ) and Miami (MIA). In 2004, CLT was the 17th biggest airport (in terms of departures) in the world.

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how many of those departures are freight? Is that tied at all to the manufacturing nature of the regional economy?

Those departure numbers also seem like they would be higher for CLT because of all the small-plane routes to the hundreds of small southern cities with USAirways Express.

Given our size already, are the runway extension and new 3rd runway expected to increase our traffic by making it cheaper and faster for hub and freight operations? ... and are the new parking decks and lower fares expected to grow our local passenger traffic?

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how many of those departures are freight?  Is that tied at all to the manufacturing nature of the regional economy?

Those departure numbers also seem like they would be higher for CLT because of all the small-plane routes to the hundreds of small southern cities with USAirways Express.

Given our size already, are the runway extension and new 3rd runway expected to increase our traffic by making it cheaper and faster for hub and freight operations?  ... and are the new parking decks and lower fares expected to grow our local passenger traffic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

US is no different than any other hub and spoke carrier at the moment. Express operations are virtually half of every major's system. Here at CLT, US operates 291 mainline departures and 289 express departures. US flies regional jets to places like CVG, ATL, RDU, MDW, YYZ. These are not small Southern towns. Heck, UA, AA and NW fly regional jets from CLT to MIA, MDW, DTW, and IAD.

The third runway is being built to relieve congestion, but will also allow for more room in the arrival/departure realm. I doubt we'll see any large increases in traffic with the HP/US merger, but we might see new service to PDX, SLC, and AUS/SAT.

CLT is already the chepest major airport to operate from in the country. For example, it costs US nearly $12.00 to fly one passenger to PIT. At CLT, it's a little over $1.90. If a discount carrier wants to be here, nothing is keeping them out as far as operational costs are concerned.

Edited by Miesian Corners

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Given the US Airways/America West merger possibility, do you think this will increase or decrease the possiblity that Southwest will enter the Charlotte market? I read recently the Herb Kelleher was in Charlotte and that arrival of Southwest was closer than ever.

It seems that Southwest has invaded nearly every Hub US Airways has or had. Philly, Pittsburgh. Even Baltimore was a hub for USAirways many years ago until Southwest arrived.

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usairways strategy must include competition with southwest in charlotte and anywhere else. they are already doing a lot of these changes and the merger because of southwest entry into philly. their idea is that they can compete better as a "full service low cost" airline. If all the full service airlines went under, air travel would not be good... southwest cherry picks. Now while it would be competition for usairways for sw to be in charlotte and try to cherry pick the profitable routes, there will still be plenty of demand for the other routes, and potentially could make back some of the losses by having more people flying out of charlotte with the price competition.

For example... sometimes people will assume they'll drive, but they look at prices and realize it isn't so bad, so they are suddenly spending 200 bucks on tickets. That is 200 new dollars to the airline.

we'll see, though. if usairways can't survive southwest, they can't survive period... so it is best they figure it out through competition rather than just fumbling through hoping that southwest doesn't show up anywhere.

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i came across the renderings online for the Charlotte-Douglas Airport master plan, etc. I have seen them posted a few years ago, but could never find them again online until today.

mplanview1.JPG

mplanview2.JPG

Here is the link for other renderings of the parking deck (part built, the other under construction)"

http://www.the-wilson-group.com/cdia-deck.htm

and the link for the master plan with additional details:

http://www.the-wilson-group.com/cdia-mplan.htm

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Looks good - I know they just opened one of those parking decks, but has the other one started construction yet? I think I read somewhere that once the deck underconstruction is complete (which it is) they will start work on the other side..

I also noticed this - NEW INTERNATIONAL CONCOURSE AND FIS EXPANSION AT

CHARLOTTE/DOUGLAS INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT - isn't this currently under construction?

http://www.the-wilson-group.com/cdia-d.htm

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When will this airport get a tram or some other people mover to other concourses. Looking at the renderings there looks to be some distance from some of them. I never flew in to Charlotte so I don't know how the layout is in terms of getting from gate to gate.

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When will this airport get a tram or some other people mover to other concourses. Looking at the renderings there looks to be some distance from some of them. I never flew in to Charlotte so I don't know how the layout is in terms of getting from gate to gate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a people mover definitely is part of the airport master plan. you can see the line down the center of the plans, and it also shows up in some of the parking deck renderings. It would basically take passengers between the terminal, the parking decks, and then go out to the future rental car area and West CATS line on Wilkinson Blvd/Little Rock Rd.

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I believe the people mover will be built at the time of the West Corridor line.

Also, we do have a additional international airlines than just Lufthansa. Air Canada, and I think Air Mexico is starting services as well.....though I agree it would be nice to get British Airways back, along with KLM, and Air France.

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