Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[kermit]

^ There is zero reason to go from air to rail, since it is much more efficient to fly the cargo directly to its destination city. Any airfreight coming into Charlotte is virtually certain to leave the city via truck.

 

There is very little reason to go from rail to air. If airfreight speeds are needed, then that speed requirement will apply to all legs of the trip.

[15895]

JAL to Tokyo on a 787 sounds like a great candidate.

I'm just going off of what Orr is saying in interviews. I'm not familiar with cargo. Though I do know it can be gold mines for some routes.

It doesn't take much cargo on an airline to compensate for weaker demand. There won't be any extra demand at all for cargo?

Edited May 10, 2013 by AirNostrumMAD

[Miesian Corners]

Lots of work going on at CLT these days.  New A/B connector and food court is well under construction with steel girders going in.  Work will begin on the new food court at the confluence of D/E concourses the first week of June.

[15895]

10-0 council "vigorously" opposes airport transfer.

They should threaten US Airways to get the GA to temporarily slow down the transfer or pull CMPD out as immediately as the transfer takes effect

[southslider]

Fire Jerry, even if the Authority ends up hiring him back.

[RiverwoodCLT]

The FFA has to approve a transfer of control from the city of Charlotte to an Airport Authority.  If Fox becomes Transportation Secretary (which there is a good chance) I think the NC bill to transfer the airport from he city to an Authority is dead.

[Dale]

QUESTION: I'll be picking up the most beautiful woman in the world at the airport Saturday. Yes, I will be goiing into the terminal to meet her. And since she'll probably be famished, we'll probably grab a bit to eat there. Given the chaos, where do I park ?

[navigator319]

^ Where would you eat?  You don't have a boarding pass to get behind security where the food is.

[Dale]

^ Where would you eat?  You don't have a boarding pass to get behind security where the food is.

Oh, hadn't even thought about that. Okay, so now we're just down to the parking  situation. Don't know how long I'd be in the terminal waiting and don't particularly care.

[15895]

^ get a gate pass and you can go behind security. And eat.

And on parking, I haven't parked since all the new construction :/ I've taken the sprinter ever since

[Dale]

^ get a gate pass and you can go behind security. And eat.

And on parking, I haven't parked since all the new construction :/ I've taken the sprinter ever since

Thanks, and look forward to taking the Sprinter in the future, but that's not an option this time.

[Guest]

QUESTION: I'll be picking up the most beautiful woman in the world at the airport Saturday. Yes, I will be goiing into the terminal to meet her. And since she'll probably be famished, we'll probably grab a bit to eat there. Given the chaos, where do I park ?

You are picking up my wife? How's that possible ;-)

[dubone]

A UP RomCom in the making.

[Dale]

I'm sorry I said anything. They told me I'd have to watch you guys.

[kickazzz2000]

An interesting discussion about O/D traffic and yields on a different forum.  The poster got the data from the DOT, but it shows CLT as the highest yielding major domestic airport in the US.

 

Airport - Daily Pax - Length - Yield cents
1. LAX - 90,338 - 1611 - 12.0
2. LAS - 78,786 - 1239 - 12.0
3. ORD - 75,392 - 1056 - 17.3
4. MCO - 71,836 - 1128 - 12.9
5. LGA - 62,162 - 981 - 16.7
6. BOS - 59,766 - 1307 - 13.7
7. PHX - 58,876 - 1217 - 12.2
8. DFW - 58,736 - 1065 - 16.3
9. SEA - 54,272 - 1491 - 12.3
10. DEN - 52,008 - 1056 - 14.1
11. ATL - 51,498 - 893 - 18.2
12. SFO - 50,004 - 1657 - 12.2
13. JFK - 49,002 - 1659 - 11.9
14. FLL - 48,820 - 1230 - 11.5
15. EWR - 43,394 - 1388 - 15.2
16. PHL - 42,740 - 1221 - 14.9
17. DCA - 41,994 - 979 - 17.8
18. SAN - 41,628 - 1370 - 12.5
19. MSP - 41,440 - 1071 - 17.7
20. BWI - 41,344 - 1019 - 14.8
21. IAH - 39,556 - 1154 - 18.8
22. TPA - 38,648 - 1104 - 13.5
23. DTW - 37,736 - 1053 - 17.3
24. MDW - 32,818 - 912 - 15.4
25. HNL - 30,736 - 2082 - 9.2
26. PDX - 29,500 - 1363 - 12.3
27. CLT - 26,664 - 895 - 20.4
28. MIA - 26,496 - 1279 - 14.0
29. STL - 25,944 - 942 - 16.1
30. SLC - 25,492 - 1119 - 14.9

Source: DOT

[allthingsplanes]

An interesting discussion about O/D traffic and yields on a different forum.  The poster got the data from the DOT, but it shows CLT as the highest yielding major domestic airport in the US.

 

 

I can't believe the strongly mixed opinions on that same forum (I assume this is from a.net) about the direction of Charlotte after the merger.  It ranges from Charlotte will drastically downsize (though that's the minority opinion) to Charlotte will grow (again a minority).  Fortunately, most people (some of whom seem to know what they're talking about) believe Charlotte will stay roughly the same size.  But there's also significant differences of opinion as to whether we'll keep Lufthansa and the Brazil flights.

[tozmervo]

what's that mean? yielding what?

[kermit]

^ yield = profitability

 

(basically)

 

The numbers in the table were cents of revenue per seat mile flown.

Edited June 19, 2013 by kermit

[jme3]

I can't believe the strongly mixed opinions on that same forum (I assume this is from a.net) about the direction of Charlotte after the merger.  It ranges from Charlotte will drastically downsize (though that's the minority opinion) to Charlotte will grow (again a minority).  Fortunately, most people (some of whom seem to know what they're talking about) believe Charlotte will stay roughly the same size.  But there's also significant differences of opinion as to whether we'll keep Lufthansa and the Brazil flights.

 

The A.net website is generally a collection of armchair experts who root for their favorite airline and/or city.  Charlotte, not surprisingly, gets its share of criticism from fans or residents of the larger cities, and perhaps also a bit of envy for having such an aviation presence for a city of its size.  I've seen comments both pro and con, but as you've stated, the general consensus seems to be that Charlotte will at least keep the status quo.  Those who argue that it won't (or shouldn't) seem to come from the belief that Charlotte's O&D traffic does not justify having such a large operation when, in fact, one could make the very same argument about Atlanta.  Charlotte offers the new AA advantages that are greater than just the sum of its O&D numbers.  If the current debacle between the city of Charlotte and those who want to redirect the airport's oversight can be resolved favorably, and if Charlotte continues to provide the considerable advantages in the cost of doing business that it has traditionally provided, Charlotte should remain a very large operation for the new AA, second only to DFW.  Whatever one might think of Jerry Orr personally, I believe he has been a very good steward of Charlotte's growth, with those benefits flowing not only to Charlotte, but also to the whole state of NC.  

[jednc]

Although I doubt this is as dire as the headline seems to imply...it's still worth considering...

 

The negative..."changing business conditions could compel the combined airline to shift hub operations from Charlotte to Miami and other airports"

 

The positive..."Executives from both airlines have repeatedly assured lawmakers and other stakeholders that Charlotte, the world’s sixth busiest airport, would not be downgraded in the merger."

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/06/19/4117091/gao-charlotte-hub-not-guaranteed.html#storylink=cpy"

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/06/19/4117091/gao-charlotte-hub-not-guaranteed.html#storylink=cpy"

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/06/19/4117091/gao-charlotte-hub-not-guaranteed.html

 

 

edit: added quotes

Edited June 19, 2013 by jednc

[ah59396]

Stupid question 1. Are we the "6th busiest airport in the world" due generally to connections because we are a hub?

Stupid question 2. If so, what are the benefits of that? Money for the city? Or is it merely a "look at us" type thing?

Stupid question 3. If it's simply a case of connections, and it doesn't really benefit the city, does it matter if we lose them? Smells like cleaner air to me.

Someone educate me.

[kermit]

Stupid question 1. Are we the "6th busiest airport in the world" due generally to connections because we are a hub?

Stupid question 2. If so, what are the benefits of that? Money for the city? Or is it merely a "look at us" type thing?

Stupid question 3. If it's simply a case of connections, and it doesn't really benefit the city, does it matter if we lose them? Smells like cleaner air to me.

Someone educate me.

 

1) Yes. 6th busiest in terms of takeoffs and landings. This is entirely due to hub status

2) If you run a business here (like BofA) then your employees can fly direct to _many_ places. This is a significant time and aggravation saver for professionally oriented businesses since no sane person (or corporate travel office) wants to burn an extra 4 hours of their work day just to change plains in Atlanta. Simply put, Charlotte's massive corporate presence is _very_ much a product of the hub (see Chiquita).

3) see #2

Edited June 19, 2013 by kermit

[ah59396]

Gracias^

[allthingsplanes]

The A.net website is generally a collection of armchair experts who root for their favorite airline and/or city.  Charlotte, not surprisingly, gets its share of criticism from fans or residents of the larger cities, and perhaps also a bit of envy for having such an aviation presence for a city of its size.  I've seen comments both pro and con, but as you've stated, the general consensus seems to be that Charlotte will at least keep the status quo.  Those who argue that it won't (or shouldn't) seem to come from the belief that Charlotte's O&D traffic does not justify having such a large operation when, in fact, one could make the very same argument about Atlanta.  Charlotte offers the new AA advantages that are greater than just the sum of its O&D numbers.  If the current debacle between the city of Charlotte and those who want to redirect the airport's oversight can be resolved favorably, and if Charlotte continues to provide the considerable advantages in the cost of doing business that it has traditionally provided, Charlotte should remain a very large operation for the new AA, second only to DFW.  Whatever one might think of Jerry Orr personally, I believe he has been a very good steward of Charlotte's growth, with those benefits flowing not only to Charlotte, but also to the whole state of NC.  

There seem to be a few thoughtful people who are in the know - they clearly work in the airline industry and don't just take sides.  I try to pay attention to those opinions.  While Charlotte is not the size of Atlanta, we do have a greater population and business presence than many people give us credit for.  

 

Stupid question 1. Are we the "6th busiest airport in the world" due generally to connections because we are a hub?

Stupid question 2. If so, what are the benefits of that? Money for the city? Or is it merely a "look at us" type thing?

Stupid question 3. If it's simply a case of connections, and it doesn't really benefit the city, does it matter if we lose them? Smells like cleaner air to me.

Someone educate me.

Just look at cities like St. Louis and Pittsburgh to see what happens when an airline drops their hub.  Granted, there are completely different dynamics in those regions nowadays, but our large hub is one of the things that has pushed Charlotte well past cities like Nashville, Raleigh, and now Memphis.  The airport does also make money from each plane, though that doesn't directly come back to the city.

[ssh214]

I really do not know why some of the analysts are so gloomy about Charlotte's prospects as a result of this merger. IMO Phoenix and Philadelphia (do not look at the recent addition of Qatar to Philly as an indicator for good things to come) appear to be in far worse position then Charlotte. We will lose a few of the Caribbean flights and possibly lose one of the two Brazil flights but I think we will remain roughly the same size while keeping Lufthansa and adding British Airways. Phoenix is right in the middle of Dallas and LA and Philly is practically right next to NYC and not too far away from DC.

 

The article the Observer posted is once again a ploy to get people riled up and hence to gain more readers...

Edited June 20, 2013 by saamh