Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[15895]

If I'm not mistaken, GRU/GIG can't be transferred Without consulting the DOT. And I would be very, very surprised if they'd allow those flights to go to Miami.

The DOT would probably let all airlines bid on the slots.

Unless Brazil and US get open skies by 2015

[LKN704]

Apparently the flights will end January 1st, which is when Brazil-US open skies begins, allowing the slots to be transferred.

 

Really a shame about GRU. Does MIA-GRU really need another daily flight, especially with TAM joining OneWorld? The fact that every other major airlines hub, including DTW will have a GRU flight except CLT is silly.

[15895]

Apparently the flights will end January 1st, which is when Brazil-US open skies begins, allowing the slots to be transferred.

Really a shame about GRU. Does MIA-GRU really need another daily flight, especially with TAM joining OneWorld? The fact that every other major airlines hub, including DTW will have a GRU flight except CLT is silly.

Detroit will lose their flight also due to open skies I bet.

Philadelphia, Minneapolis, Denver, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, do not have São Paulo flights.

I Also think Dublin, Rome, Brussels, Munich (Lufthansa), manchester, Lisbon and Barcelona also bite the dust leaving Charlottes long haul international destinations as; London, Madrid, Frankfurt & Paris. (but never fear we'll get more daily flights on much, much smaller aircraft to Oklahoma City, Ft. Wayne, etc.... Yay....)

I wonder if all those new International destinations (Lisbon, Brussels, Barcelona, Manchester) were just a ploy to entice local politicians to give their blessings for the merger?

I think Charlotte airport needs to slow its roll on airport expansion. No new international concourse for starters. There is no need for all the additional gates...

Edited February 1, 2014 by AirNostrumMAD

[cltbwimob]

There was another on the a.net thread who said only GIG would be closing, apparently also with insider info. On that same forum, circa 2009-2010 someone had it on "insider info" that the CLT-GIG flight would be transferred to Orlando. Needless to say, that didn't happen. This likely needs a good dose of rumor control.

We do have our own Mesian Corners who might be able to expound...

[15895]

There was another on the a.net thread who said only GIG would be closing, apparently also with insider info. On that same forum, circa 2009-2010 someone had it on "insider info" that the CLT-GIG flight would be transferred to Orlando. Needless to say, that didn't happen. This likely needs a good dose of rumor control.

We do have our own Mesian Corners who might be able to expound...

IMO that's a very, very credible poster who posted that though.

[LKN704]

Yes the person who wrote that on the forum works for US. Very credible.

No one on that forum ever said the flight would be transferred, they just said that the flight largely carries traffic to MCO, which it does.

Anyway, I was suspicious when US announced those flights, especially considering the timing. They certainly won't last longer than this summer, unfortunately.

I don't want to be a downer, but I'm bracing myself. All the PR in the observer could be hearsay to sweeten local politicians and airport officials. MEM was "promised" a flight to NRT. Look at MEM now.

[15895]

I can't believe the Observer is falling for the "Charlotte may increase to 700 daily flights"

That's nearly the number of flights US Air & American already have.... Minus the nearly 7 international destinations on very large aircraft and add nearly 7 small destinations with 2-3 flights on very small aircraft and there's the 700 mark.

[cltbwimob]

Yes the person who wrote that on the forum works for US. Very credible.

No one on that forum ever said the flight would be transferred, they just said that the flight largely carries traffic to MCO, which it does.

Anyway, I was suspicious when US announced those flights, especially considering the timing. They certainly won't last longer than this summer, unfortunately.

I don't want to be a downer, but I'm bracing myself. All the PR in the observer could be hearsay to sweeten local politicians and airport officials. MEM was "promised" a flight to NRT. Look at MEM now.

 

There actually was a rumor around 2009-2010 on a.net that said the CLT-GIG flight would become MCO-GIG...once again insider information.  I have lurked there for a long time, and remember that one distinctly, so no, it has not been just talk of most of the passengers coming from MCO (although that has also been mentioned).  There has been many a crap on CLT thread in a.net, and I have read nearly all of them.

 

As far as the comparison between MEM and CLT-be careful-the two are not even remotely comparable, not size of the metro area, O&D, profitability, geography vs other hubs, number of flights, etc.  While MEM was easily absorbed into the Delta network at other hubs, CLT is much larger, and will not be easily dispersed throughout the larger network.

 

At any rate, I still say wait for an official announcement.  Just because someone works at a company does not mean their word is gospel. However, Mesian Corners is our resident expert for all things US, if he confirms the rumor, then I would be worried.  He also works at US Airways.

 

Finally, if I remember correctly, part of the deal with the DoJ was that all hubs would maintain all routes (with the exception of the forced slot divestitures at LGA/DCA) for at least 3 years.

Edited February 1, 2014 by cltbwimob

[ChessieCat]

Airchive, one of the top airline blogs out there, made this prediction about the AA/US merger: 

 

Loser: International Operations at Charlotte Douglas
Because the merger has gone through, much of the international operations at the Charlotte Douglas hub are rendered obsolete. The recent trans-Atlantic expansion was primarily to Star Alliance hubs, which will likely die out when US Airways moves over to oneworld. Most of the Caribbean flights and the flight to Rio are much better served from the much larger market of Miami. To be clear, Charlotte will not lose its hub. But its post-merger international operation will be much smaller than it is currently.

 

Scroll half-way down:

http://airchive.com/blog/2013/11/15/winners-losers-us-airways-american-merger/

[Miesian Corners]

CLT-GRU is not ending, CLT-GIG ends 12/31/14.  Rio is a leisure market, Sao Paulo is not.  Several airlines have dropped their service to Rio (TAM dropped LHR-GIG and BA scaled back service on the same route from daily to 3X weekly).  Yet another reason I have serious doubts about the 2016 Olympics, but that's a whole other story...

Edited February 1, 2014 by Miesian Corners

[ChessieCat]

^Thx for the info... Has US ever flown A330-200's on a CLT-MIA route or just CLT-MCO during tourist season?

[Miesian Corners]

^Thx for the info... Has US ever flown A330-200's on a CLT-MIA route or just CLT-MCO during tourist season?

Piedmont used MIA as a focus city, but 1990s USAir management ruined it in the subsequent years that followed.  To my knowledge, US has never flown a widebody to MIA.  As a matter of fact, US service at MIA was limited (as is service by all other US-based airlines).  Landing fees are outrageous there for the amount of business it generates in O&D numbers, which is one reason why most North American carriers use Ft Lauderdale for the majority of their South Florida service.  

 

It's pretty amazing what US has done with its schedule from CLT to AA hubs.  As of January 20, US now flies 7 non-stops a day between CLT and MIA (6 A321s and 1 A319), up from four 737s in December; It flies 5 A321s per day between CLT and JFK (up from 3 A319s in December); 8 321s between CLT and ORD (mostly the same, as the airline has simply traded codeshares from United to AA); and 7 non-stops between CLT and DFW (4 A321s, 2 757s, and 1 A320), up from 5 A320s in December (add the 5 AA  non-stops per day between DFW and CLT--that's 13 flights per day between the two cities!); and added one A321 between CLT and LAX (AA will also add flights on this city pair once the code share is in full force at LAX in March).  

Edited February 1, 2014 by Miesian Corners

[ChessieCat]

Amazing.  A321's are worth their weight in gold when you have lots of hubs... Isn't it ironic that AA now has hubs in every region through the merger, a strategy it had to abandon after the failed hubs at RDU, BNA, SJC, and SJU?

 

Quick question:  when will AA start aligning US itineraries with oneworld partners?  It's exiting Star Alliance on 3/31 so if one wants to build an itinerary from say CLT-LHR-LBA after 4/1 utilizing BA, when will this be possible? 

[Miesian Corners]

Amazing.  A321's are worth their weight in gold when you have lots of hubs... Isn't it ironic that AA now has hubs in every region through the merger, a strategy it had to abandon after the failed hubs at RDU, BNA, SJC, and SJU?

 

Quick question:  when will AA start aligning US itineraries with oneworld partners?  It's exiting Star Alliance on 3/31 so if one wants to build an itinerary from say CLT-LHR-LBA after 4/1 utilizing BA, when will this be possible? 

US moves into the AA terminal at LHR in May for easier connections with BA.  Not sure, however, if any oneworld connections at LHR will begin before that.  

[LKN704]

When US first received their A333s back in 2000 and 2001, they flew them on a limited basis on MIA-PHL/PIT.

 

So I am hearing CLT-GRU is safe? Music to my ears!

[ScottCLT]

Amazing.  A321's are worth their weight in gold when you have lots of hubs... Isn't it ironic that AA now has hubs in every region through the merger, a strategy it had to abandon after the failed hubs at RDU, BNA, SJC, and SJU?

 

Quick question:  when will AA start aligning US itineraries with oneworld partners?  It's exiting Star Alliance on 3/31 so if one wants to build an itinerary from say CLT-LHR-LBA after 4/1 utilizing BA, when will this be possible?

Until 4/1, the only codeshares with Oneworld will be with AA. After 4/1, more codeshares will happen, and travel on all Oneworld partners will be a lot more streamlined because of the alliance. But until then, the only streamlining of travel will be with US and AA.

I have to say, I was very cautiously optimistic when this whole merger thing started. But I flew on AA last week for the first time in a while just because I could get miles now on my US account, and it was absolutely the most pleasant flying experience I've had in coach in a long time. No free upgrade to first class (like US does for frequent fliers), but they did upgrade me for free to "Main Cabin Extra" which has 6 more inches of legroom. That made all the difference. Also, the planes were equipped with 9" touchscreen entertainment systems in every seat. Lots of content - plenty to keep me entertained on a couple 3-4 hour flights. And the planes were new. One of the planes I was on still had a "new car smell" it was so new. I could get used to this.

The old MD-80s that AA is known for seem on their way out, as they are now have a "a new plane every week" advertising campaign. They even have the new A321T for JFK-SFO and JFK-LAX flights, which is about 60% business and first class, 20% Main Cabin Extra, and 20% standard coach.

[ChessieCat]

^Good to hear.  The sharklets on the new A320 series aircraft are impressive

[Miesian Corners]

Concourse B expansion announcement:

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/02/03/4660728/airport-moves-forward-with-concourse.html

[allthingsplanes]

^ Just kidding...

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/02/03/4660728/airport-moves-forward-with-concourse.html#.UvAGa_ldW6M

[15895]

I wonder if that was an AA decision

[allthingsplanes]

What do you mean?  It sounds more like someone just accidentally let the cat out of the bag earlier than they intended... But I hope I'm not wrong.

[tozmervo]

The twitters were saying earlier that the CLT-Rio route will be discontinued next year. 

[cltbwimob]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/02/03/4661374/american-airlines-dropping-charlotte.html#.UvA09LTB-So

 

And the rumored dropping of the Charlotte-Rio route is now official.  Charlotte-Sao Paulo stays.

 

I was expecting it, but I must say it stung a little to see the news made official.  Also gives me an ever so slight bit of anxiety regarding our future as a hub.  Hopefully, those fears will be laid to rest soon by the introduction of new service.  Even the introduction of 5-10 mid-size markets such as Toledo, Tulsa, OKC, Albuquerque, etc would go a long way.

[LKN704]

I'd much rather NOT gain any flights, or even shrink a little bit if it meant keeping most of our international flights.

 

I can't help but think that one of three things happened with the B expansion:

 

1. Someone from CLT released the information too early.

2. AA told CLT that an expansion was not needed and wasn't going to fund the operation OR did not want fees to increase.

3. Canceling of the expansion is CLT's way of punishing AA for canceling GIG, and to keep AA in the palm of their hands.

[15895]

^ I'll go with #2