Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[TravisNC]

Does anyone have any information on how Lufthansa's doing on this route? I heard they weren't getting the connection traffic they anticipated but that O&D loads were better than anticipated. Didn't they decrease the frequency of service some time back to less than 7x per week?

It's less than daily during the winter (slow season). I think it was 5x weekly this past winter. Lufthansa also decreases Los Angeles, Boston, and San Francisco during the same time.

[Dwight Shroot]

It's less than daily during the winter (slow season). I think it was 5x weekly this past winter. Lufthansa also decreases Los Angeles, Boston, and San Francisco during the same time.

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad to hear that this route has some staying power. It's nice to see that foreign metal in Charlotte once in a while.

[cinco]

This is probably not the thread in which to post this, but I saw the Stephen Colbert piece on 60 Minutes Sunday night. His father and brother were killed in the Eastern Airlines DC-9 crash at Charlotte in 1974.

wow, i did not know that. both my parents worked @ eastern @ the time and my dad was asked to volunteer to help in the clean-up. he got out there to the site and saw some awlful things... anyway, that plane went down not too far from carowinds off of 49, right?

[Miesian Corners]

^yep, that's the one. Strangely, the cockpit crew survived the crash.

As far as Lufthansa's MUC-CLT service, I have a friend who works at Star Alliance headquarters in FRA. He tells me LH is very pleased with the city pair and is committed to the route and to CLT.

[RDUairport]

I know with the new merger between U.S.Airways and America West Airlines that CLT has become even more of a major player in their operations. With a third parallel runway in the works to help ease congestion, I began wondering about terminal space. I know that its become rare for CLT to have unused gates, and I remember coming across a forum that showed renderings of CLT with a new terminal, looking similar to United's terminal at ORD. Is this new terminal an actual proposal or was this just a rumor with a wonderful rendering. If this is actually being proposed how far along in the process is it?

[Dwight Shroot]

RDUairport, you didn't see that rendering on this site, did you? That sounds like something you'd see on airliners.net -- but I don't remember seeing it there.

As for terminal expansion, I believe that there is a long-term plan for an "island" terminal of sorts - they'd move the international ops from D concourse and into this new offset concourse. This, I believe, has something to do with the multi-modal freight hub that is also "planned" for KCLT.

As for short-term expansion, I think that further expansion of concourse E remains a possibility, but KCLT might actually be through with it's E expansion.

Let me know if you come across anything else; you know the airport website always has a decent amount of info. about long-range planning and capital projects.

FINALLY: Anyone catch the blurb in the "Insider" on charlotte.com this morning? Lufthansa is, in fact, pleased with its loads from CLT to Munich. Anyone think there are some Charlotte residents headed to the World Cup? I'd bet.

[Neo]

[Rickydavisfan21]

thanx neo I was trying to find that

[SmellyCat]

^yep, that's the one. Strangely, the cockpit crew survived the crash.

I never heard about that one, so I looked it up. In that crash, 71 of 82 people lost their lives because the pilots were discussing politics rather than the plans for their approach to the airport in foggy weather. The plane was flying too low and pilot error was given as the reason for the crash. After the crash investigation, a new rule was established to prevent "non-essential pilot chatter" below 10,000 feet.

The flight was coming from Charleston and it happened on Sept. 11, 1974.

[monsoon]

I remember when it happened. At the time it was the worst loss of life in an airline crash in the USA. There have been at least two other crashes at that airport that killed a number of people since that event but I think that one holds the record for number of dead at the Charlotte airport.

[Miesian Corners]

For anyone curious, the crash site is the present home of the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Academy. Shopton Rd and S Tryon St.

[Miesian Corners]

Just drove in from the airport. Can anyone find a TIP for the Airport Freeway? I can't find it on the NCDOT site. The road is in horrible shape. The vast majority of pavement markings are now gone, not to mention the dismal state of the asphalt. It hasn't been resurfaced since the airport opened in 1983! Not a very nice welcome to Charlotte or North Carolina.

[Seabreeze]

Just drove in from the airport. Can anyone find a TIP for the Airport Freeway? I can't find it on the NCDOT site. The road is in horrible shape. The vast majority of pavement markings are now gone, not to mention the dismal state of the asphalt. It hasn't been resurfaced since the airport opened in 1983! Not a very nice welcome to Charlotte or North Carolina.

Working at that airport, I can def. say it has many flaws. The bathrooms are in horrible disarray. The walls are often times dingy. The ceiling has horrible watermarks. Some parts have been half painted white and grey for as long as I can remember. It really does Charlotte no justice. Granted, the rocking chairs and piano are a nice touch and the selection of retail is nice, it still lacks granduer. I think it should undergo a 'southpark' esque remodel. I think it is getting a nice, upscale feel from the retail, but the building keeps it from pushing on to a higher level... And upgrading would only broaden the selection of services/products at our airport and make it more profitable...

Our airport offers:

Spa offering facials, massage, manicures and pedicures, as well as an oxygen bar

Johnston and Murphy

Bernards

Rocky Mountain Chocolate Factory

Yadkin Valley Wine Bar

Brookestone

Fox Sports Grille

Chilis

etc.etc.etc

Why does it look like they are ina horribly outdated shopping mall? We need interior upgrades stat!

[turbocraig]

^Yeah, it kinda reminds me of the St Louis airport.. all grey and plain and dungeon-like. I'd like to see CLT resemble John Wayne/Orange County, CA... all warm woods and brushed steel.

[dubone]

Personally, I want the airport to look exactly like it looks now, only with some basic and thrifty expansions, just as it has done over the years. Charlotte has a very low price because of its ultra-conservative view on construction and architecture. That has allowed US Airways to remain, which leads to its continued economic generation in this region.

An expensive airport would not be good for US Airways, and might lead to a serious risk that the airline would leave the city as a hub.

[Miesian Corners]

Nah, they'd stay. Besides, good design isn't expensive. There are great firms out there who can do great things. It just takes a city to embrace good design and not settle for crap. And I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for crappy maintenance. I can only imagine what the cost savings would have been by using better materials in heavy traffic public areas. Say steel or composite panels along walls instead of sheet rock that is constantly being replaced or patched because baggage carts, special service carts, luggage and peoples feet all punching holes through it. Simply inexcusable. Likewise, there is also no excuse for not keeping the place clean. The carpeting down A, B and C is a hodge podge of spills, duct tape holding sections down, and sudden changes in carpeting styles and design.

The B & C concourse restrooms haven't been remodeled since they were built in 1983. With 19 million (or so) passengers passing through annually, a restroom upgrade is def in order. They're just nasty. To put it in perspecitve, the BWI airport has replaced all of its public restrooms three times over the past 18 years. And smart as they are, the last time they used a terazzo flooring product that doesn't have grout lines that collect, um, er, stuff.

[turbocraig]

At least CLT has finally jumped on the Passenger Facility Charge to raise money for airport upkeep. I wonder how much cash the airport could have raised if they implemented that a decade ago when most other aiports began assessing the surcharge. Even now, with the PFC charge capped at $4.50 per take-off, we still only charge $3.00, which is what the original PFC cap was when the program began. Think about 19M departures per year (connection or origin) multiplied by all that lost income over the years.

[Seabreeze]

Personally, I want the airport to look exactly like it looks now, only with some basic and thrifty expansions, just as it has done over the years. Charlotte has a very low price because of its ultra-conservative view on construction and architecture. That has allowed US Airways to remain, which leads to its continued economic generation in this region.

An expensive airport would not be good for US Airways, and might lead to a serious risk that the airline would leave the city as a hub.

This is already an expensive airport, if you haven't been there in a while. The cheapest men's shirt you can find is $100 unless it has Charlotte written on it. Everything has an additional 30% markup over normal markup b/c the airport takes 12% of all generated sales, plus extra high rent. The building is ABSOLUTELY disgusting. It just takes someone being there everyday of the week to notice. The restroom is rarely cleaned, and only 4 of the automatic sinks work in the one closest to my business. This has been like that for the past 6 months. The urinals look like wishing wells from the amount of pocket change rusting in them. The ceiling is rotting and falling apart in the main terminal. The punch sheet for the airport could go on for miles... There is seriously a hole knocked into the wall once every 10 feet. It looks like someone ran through with a bnaseball bat and just went to town.

The airport charges way much for tenant rent for the accomadations. We pay high rent for a horrible, horrible space.

I don't care if it is boring, cheap architecture. All I am asking for is fro a ligth switch that doesn't get scalding hot towards the end of the day from the cheap electrical work... it isn't safe, and it isn't healthy...

Oh, and I am not even going to go into the conditions of the basement/ loading dock area. Let's just say that I wouldn't order a yogurt based drink from Jamba Juice...

Nah, they'd stay. Besides, good design isn't expensive. There are great firms out there who can do great things. It just takes a city to embrace good design and not settle for crap. And I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for crappy maintenance. I can only imagine what the cost savings would have been by using better materials in heavy traffic public areas. Say steel or composite panels along walls instead of sheet rock that is constantly being replaced or patched because baggage carts, special service carts, luggage and peoples feet all punching holes through it. Simply inexcusable. Likewise, there is also no excuse for not keeping the place clean. The carpeting down A, B and C is a hodge podge of spills, duct tape holding sections down, and sudden changes in carpeting styles and design.

The B & C concourse restrooms haven't been remodeled since they were built in 1983. With 19 million (or so) passengers passing through annually, a restroom upgrade is def in order. They're just nasty. To put it in perspecitve, the BWI airport has replaced all of its public restrooms three times over the past 18 years. And smart as they are, the last time they used a terazzo flooring product that doesn't have grout lines that collect, um, er, stuff.

I just read this after making my last comment. I am glad someone else pointed out the holes in the walls! And the restrooms!

One last thing that really really bugs me!! You go to an airport like the one in Dallas and you see beautiful public art everywhere. I have always wondered why our airport lacks it everywhere with the exception of a little on the A concourse... Then I had to take a trip up to the airport operations office where Jerry Orr runs shop. Let's just say I now know where 80% of the art in the airport is.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Seabreeze

[dubone]

Does the price of men's shirts factor into US Airways' cost basis for operating a hub in Charlotte? I guess some synthetic fibers could be broken down into a source of fuel for aircraft, but I don't think USAirways does that.

All that to say, I'm not refering to retail costs, but rather the core cost of flying to and from the airport by US Airways.

[kickazzz2000]

^I'm not saying your statement is not true, but I've seen nowhere in any company publication or news release anything about CLT-JFK service. Even more strange is that US would use HP metal for the route. HP doesn't even serve PHX-CLT.

It's been loaded into the schedule, starts Sep 6. 3X CR9, not 319's. Probably best not to flood the market with Airbuses.

[monsoon]

One last thing that really really bugs me!! You go to an airport like the one in Dallas and you see beautiful public art everywhere. I have always wondered why our airport lacks it everywhere with the exception of a little on the A concourse... Then I had to take a trip up to the airport operations office where Jerry Orr runs shop. Let's just say I now know where 80% of the art in the airport is.

Maybe you also forgot the huge Queen Charlotte statue that would qualify as public art.

The first time I flew through DFW a few years ago I almost stepped into a big pile of dog poop that had been left right in the middle of one of the concourses. I've never had that happen in Charlotte which maintains a remarkably clean airport.

In dealing with travel through a hub airport, and I have done lots of business flying, I can't say that I have ever had much of an opportunity to stop and admire the local airport art in the concourses. It's more important to find out where the next plane is and get there before you loose a seat. I would say that it isn't that much of a deal in the concources. Art is better served in the ticketing and entrances to the airports where people have more time to admire it.

[Seabreeze]

http://www.dfwairport.com/cdp/art/artists.html

This is just some of what DFW offers their guests..

"The first time I flew through DFW a few years ago I almost stepped into a big pile of dog poop that had been left right in the middle of one of the concourses. "

Thats unfortunate.

" I've never had that happen in Charlotte which maintains a remarkably clean airport."

HA! Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

"In dealing with travel through a hub airport, and I have done lots of business flying, I can't say that I have ever had much of an opportunity to stop and admire the local airport art in the concourses. It's more important to find out where the next plane is and get there before you loose a seat."

Then I guess the art would would not include you as a target audience. I personally enjoy art.

"Art is better served in the ticketing and entrances to the airports where people have more time to admire it."

In Charlotte, much more time is spent by travelers in the concourses than at the ticketing counters. A large majorirty of people never even see the ticketing counters. Lots are just connecting through.

None of this gives an explanation as to why all of the public art is sitting in a private part of the airport... But from what I understand, this is a common practice in Charlotte.

That statue only further shows how neglected art is at the airport. The base is missing giant areas of paint and is rusting horribly. I am sure it has had absolutely no maintenance since its installation. And if it has had repairs, the company responsible should be sued.

Edited May 10, 2006 by Seabreeze

[Miesian Corners]

I have to agree with Seabreeze. I, too work at CLT and am acutely aware of its flaws and filth. If nature calls, I go to the only clean restrooms in the terminal...the ones beside the Department of Aviation offices above the food court. And as I stated before, the carpeting down A, B & C concourses is in terrible shape.

Over 90% of passenger traffic at CLT are people in transit. This is all they ever see of our city. We should do better in making a good impression.

[Seabreeze]

I have to agree with Seabreeze. I, too work at CLT and am acutely aware of its flaws and filth. If nature calls, I go to the only clean restrooms in the terminal...the ones beside the Department of Aviation offices above the food court. And as I stated before, the carpeting down A, B & C concourses is in terrible shape.

Over 90% of passenger traffic at CLT are people in transit. This is all they ever see of our city. We should do better in making a good impression.

I do the same. I constantly tell my clients to take the elevator by jamba juice if they need to use a restroom.

[monsoon]

It's good that employees of the airport are critical of its flaws. That means that customers of the place, including myself, don't have bad experiences. Everyone that I have known, that has flown into CLT has had pretty good praises for the place compared to many other airports including DFW. There are even nice comments about the rocking chair and other art in the main food court concourse, which if I am not mistaken, is in one of the most traveled parts of the airport.