Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[uptownliving]

American Airlines had their 3Q Conf Call this morning where they reported record breaking profit for the airline. Some notes about Charlotte:

- Charlotte was once again noted as the top performing hub for revenue generation along with New York.

- Now that the reservation switchover is complete the airline will start the process in 2016 of moving the airplanes around between the legacy US and AA systems. They said that process could take up to 2 years to complete for them to find the right mix of aircraft on their routes. So it is very possible we will see more legacy AA aircraft here in Charlotte.

[Deleted.]

American Airlines had their 3Q Conf Call this morning where they reported record breaking profit for the airline. Some notes about Charlotte:

- Charlotte was once again noted as the top performing hub for revenue generation along with New York.

- Now that the reservation switchover is complete the airline will start the process in 2016 of moving the airplanes around between the legacy US and AA systems. They said that process could take up to 2 years to complete for them to find the right mix of aircraft on their routes. So it is very possible we will see more legacy AA aircraft here in Charlotte.

That's good news! I don't like the idea of aircraft moving around, I love the A330s. I hated the 767-200 and do not want to work the 767-300. I hope the A330s stay in Charlotte. 

But if we do get the 767-300, hopefully they will be replaced by 2019 with modern aircraft e.g. 787s and A330/50s. 

Edited October 23, 2015 by Piedmont767

[tozmervo]

American Airlines had their 3Q Conf Call this morning where they reported record breaking profit for the airline. Some notes about Charlotte:

- Charlotte was once again noted as the top performing hub for revenue generation along with New York.

- Now that the reservation switchover is complete the airline will start the process in 2016 of moving the airplanes around between the legacy US and AA systems. They said that process could take up to 2 years to complete for them to find the right mix of aircraft on their routes. So it is very possible we will see more legacy AA aircraft here in Charlotte.

I'm sure the actual financial mechanics are insanely complex, but I am surprised that for "revenue generation" that CLT performs above DFW.

[Silicon Dogwoods]

I'm sure the actual financial mechanics are insanely complex, but I am surprised that for "revenue generation" that CLT performs above DFW.

Maybe they meant gross profit dollars? Of course, that isn't the same thing as revenue. Or revenue per enplaned passenger? CLT's would be high because our enplanement costs are so low; New York (LGA? JFK?) would have high O&D traffic.

[uptownliving]

I'm sure the actual financial mechanics are insanely complex, but I am surprised that for "revenue generation" that CLT performs above DFW.

DFW is taking a hit on revenue right now for 2 reasons: the expansion of Southwest at Dallas Love Field and the strong dollar cutting back on revenue from their recently expanded international flights. They were also going through some growing pains of switching to a banked hub and getting all the kinks worked out with the new schedules.

Edited October 23, 2015 by uptownliving

[LKN704]

I hope we get more 738s.

[15895]

I hope we get more 738s.

Not me. I like Airbus. I don't like Boeing. Primarily because US Airways started transitioning to Airbus though. And I like the fact that odds are if it's an airbus, particularly with no sharklets, its a former US bird.

[ssh214]

Not me. I like Airbus. I don't like Boeing. Primarily because US Airways started transitioning to Airbus though. And I like the fact that odds are if it's an airbus, particularly with no sharklets, its a former US bird.

I like the new entertainment system AA has with their new 737s... If they bring the old ones I'm not happy with that 

[ScottCLT]

I feel extremity lucky when I fly on one of those. It's rare, though. Out of 60 or so AA flight this year, I have had entertainment systems (not talking about the GoGo entertainment systems) maybe twice.

[Miesian Corners]

DFW is taking a hit on revenue right now for 2 reasons: the expansion of Southwest at Dallas Love Field and the strong dollar cutting back on revenue from their recently expanded international flights. They were also going through some growing pains of switching to a banked hub and getting all the kinks worked out with the new schedules.

 

Believe it or not, DFW is also taking a hit due to Spirit.  It's now the second biggest carrier there. 

 

 

•  

Edited October 25, 2015 by Miesian Corners

[15895]

 

Believe it or not, DFW is also taking a hit due to Spirit.  It's now the second biggest carrier there. 

 

 

•  

is it really the 2nd largest? By seats? That is pretty significant If it's by seats

[Miesian Corners]

is it really the 2nd largest? By seats? That is pretty significant If it's by seats

“Spirit at DFW is our No. 2 competitor – they are larger than either Delta or United,” Scott Kirby, President. American Airlines Group, Inc., 10/22/15

Spirit flies to 8 of the top 10 domestic markets at DFW. It has 50 flights per day there.  

[ssh214]

“Spirit at DFW is our No. 2 competitor – they are larger than either Delta or United,” Scott Kirby, President. American Airlines Group, Inc., 10/22/15

Spirit flies to 8 of the top 10 domestic markets at DFW. It has 50 flights per day there.  

Yea but I think like someone mentioned they have Southwest right down the road in Love... I think that causes more of an impact than Spirit does

[15895]

Yea but I think like someone mentioned they have Southwest right down the road in Love... I think that causes more of an impact than Spirit does

Well, he did say "2nd" with the implication that Southwest is the number 1 competitor. I just think it's crazy Spirit has 50 daily flights from DFW. I thought it was like a bunch of destinations with like... 3 weekly flights. But 50 daily. sheesh.

[cltbwimob]

Regardless of whether Spirit is the biggest competitor to AA in DFW or second biggest competitor after Southwest, I see it as good for Charlotte.  The more market share LCCs eat up in cities like Dallas, the better Charlotte looks relative to those cities as a place to double down and continue growing.

[Miesian Corners]

Yea but I think like someone mentioned they have Southwest right down the road in Love... I think that causes more of an impact than Spirit does

I'm just going by Scott Kirby's quote.

[cltcane]

Regardless of whether Spirit is the biggest competitor to AA in DFW or second biggest competitor after Southwest, I see it as good for Charlotte.  The more market share LCCs eat up in cities like Dallas, the better Charlotte looks relative to those cities as a place to double down and continue growing.

True, but that also means fares are likely to remain artificially high here.  The lack of any substantial LCC presence at CLT means AA essentially sets prices, especially on non-stop routes.  Have you seen recent fares to cities with LCC competition (and to major international destinations) from other AA hubs (DFW, ORD, MIA, LAX, PHX, PHL, LGA/JFK) recently?  $100 short- and long-haul roundtrip domestic flights, $500 to South America, $600 to Europe and Asia, etc., all with only 14-day advance purchase requirements.  Meanwhile, I can't seem to buy a ticket going anywhere in the US from CLT for less than $400 (and that usually involves a connection at another AA hub on routes where a non-stop flight is available), even when looking more than a month in advance.  I want CLT to continue to grow as a hub because that has both a direct and indirect positive effect on our local economy, but I also hope we get more LCC competition to keep flight prices in check and get an occasional AA fare sale which, for all intents and purposes, does not happen here.

[ssh214]

True, but that also means fares are likely to remain artificially high here.  The lack of any substantial LCC presence at CLT means AA essentially sets prices, especially on non-stop routes.  Have you seen recent fares to cities with LCC competition (and to major international destinations) from other AA hubs (DFW, ORD, MIA, LAX, PHX, PHL, LGA/JFK) recently?  $100 short- and long-haul roundtrip domestic flights, $500 to South America, $600 to Europe and Asia, etc., all with only 14-day advance purchase requirements.  Meanwhile, I can't seem to buy a ticket going anywhere in the US from CLT for less than $400 (and that usually involves a connection at another AA hub on routes where a non-stop flight is available), even when looking more than a month in advance.  I want CLT to continue to grow as a hub because that has both a direct and indirect positive effect on our local economy, but I also hope we get more LCC competition to keep flight prices in check and get an occasional AA fare sale which, for all intents and purposes, does not happen here.

btw just as a tip for anyone flying to the LA area... Fly to Burbank from Charlotte with a connection through PHX (that's what I always do) and u can get a flight in the low 300s round trip, I often book it within only a week in advance 

Edited October 26, 2015 by saamh

[jtmonk]

Yep, I got a ticket to ONT (Ontario, CA) for only $299.00.  

[dcharlotte]

CLT can keep all of the airbus flights. No power outlets and much louder than the 737s. 

[Deleted.]

CLT can keep all of the airbus flights. No power outlets and much louder than the 737s. 

And I hope Miami keeps the 767s! But we want to keep the A330s so hands off Miami!

[Bikeguy]

CLT can keep all of the airbus flights. No power outlets and much louder than the 737s. 

Can anyone comment on the movements the industry is making to QUIET engine noise?  With the insane growth that is projected for CLT and the relative close in-town location of the airport, this issue is only going to get worse.  

 

[DEnd]

Can anyone comment on the movements the industry is making to QUIET engine noise?  With the insane growth that is projected for CLT and the relative close in-town location of the airport, this issue is only going to get worse.  

 

The main way they are trying to quiet engine noise is by aerodynamic means, specifically where the exhaust and the atmosphere combine, and around the fan. 

The Majority of engine noise for jets come turbulence created when the exhaust hits the atmosphere.  A lot of noise reduction was done by going to higher bypass turbofans.  The bypass ratio is determined by how much air goes through the first large fan vs the "engine core", or the rest of the engine.  This also (for the most part) makes engines more fuel efficient.  This is important because air that moves through the bypass stage (ie first fan stage) moves slower than air that moves through the engine core.  Less speed difference between the moving air and the atmosphere means less energy difference, less energy difference means less energy available to convert into sound.  That said the major gains from fan size have already been made, so they are looking more and more at how the two (or three) air streams meet.  Those are the engine (core and bypass), and atmosphere air streams. 

I also mentioned fan design, if you've ever wondered why the blades on a jet engine have a kind of flattened S shape to them this is partially why.  That shape also helps the fan be a lot more efficient.

New Jet engine designs are about 10-15% more efficient than they were in the mid 90s, and that also has quieted them down.  Higher fuel costs, increasing noise regulations, and decreased competition regulations have pushed adoption to newer engine designs.  Those pressures will continue to increase, but take off and Landing over-flight zones are going to continue to be noisy for a long time. 

[Bikeguy]

The main way they are trying to quiet engine noise is by aerodynamic means, specifically where the exhaust and the atmosphere combine, and around the fan. 

The Majority of engine noise for jets come turbulence created when the exhaust hits the atmosphere.  A lot of noise reduction was done by going to higher bypass turbofans.  The bypass ratio is determined by how much air goes through the first large fan vs the "engine core", or the rest of the engine.  This also (for the most part) makes engines more fuel efficient.  This is important because air that moves through the bypass stage (ie first fan stage) moves slower than air that moves through the engine core.  Less speed difference between the moving air and the atmosphere means less energy difference, less energy difference means less energy available to convert into sound.  That said the major gains from fan size have already been made, so they are looking more and more at how the two (or three) air streams meet.  Those are the engine (core and bypass), and atmosphere air streams. 

I also mentioned fan design, if you've ever wondered why the blades on a jet engine have a kind of flattened S shape to them this is partially why.  That shape also helps the fan be a lot more efficient.

New Jet engine designs are about 10-15% more efficient than they were in the mid 90s, and that also has quieted them down.  Higher fuel costs, increasing noise regulations, and decreased competition regulations have pushed adoption to newer engine designs.  Those pressures will continue to increase, but take off and Landing over-flight zones are going to continue to be noisy for a long time. 

So given this ( ..and thanks for the physics lesson )  which carrier has been more aggressive towards noise reduction in acquiring these new jet engines?  Or, is it more aligned to the aircraft manufacturer..  Airbus vs Boeing ?  

[ChessieCat]

So given this ( ..and thanks for the physics lesson )  which carrier has been more aggressive towards noise reduction in acquiring these new jet engines?  Or, is it more aligned to the aircraft manufacturer..  Airbus vs Boeing ?  

It has nothing to do with Airbus, Boeing, Embraer, or Bombardier since they all buy from the three main engine suppliers: GE/SNECMA, Rolls Royce, and Pratt & Whitney.  The biggest innovation is P&W's geared turbofan which will appear on the Airbus A320neo series.  GE/SNECMA will provide its own competing turbofan for the A320neo and have exclusivisty for the 737 MAX generation of aircraft.  

Rolls Royce is more of a wide-body player: their Trent engines provide the power for AA's A330-200 aircraft which fly out of Charlotte on European routes.  P&W engines power AA's A330-300's.

As DEnd said, the new engine designs will be 10-15% more efficient while lowering noise.  Unfortuntely you can never completely get rid of aircraft engine noise...

Edited October 27, 2015 by ChessieCat