Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[NikolaTesla]

45 minutes ago, JetBlueCLT said:

E90 are way more comfortable than the A320. That's why I'm looking forward to getting the A220-300s in CLT. Best of both worlds, 2 X 3 configuration and more seats in the market. 

Yep, i am looking forward to riding on the A220 as well, watched a bunch of trip reports with all positive reviews. 

[cltbwimob]

23 hours ago, atlrvr said:

Lisbon, Stuttgart, Amsterdam, Manchester, Edinburgh, Dusseldorf, possibly Geneva all might make sense.

I looked at a range mapper and assuming I operated it correctly, I believe all of these are in range along with all major Scandinavian cities with the exception of Helsinki.  If that’s the case, my bets would be on Manchester, Amsterdam, Düsseldorf, Zurich, and Stockholm (due to the ties with Electrolux and Husqvarna).  I also think with the A321XLR, a strong case could be made for year round  flights to Madrid, Paris, and Barcelona...Dublin as well, but I hope that one is served by Aer Lingus metal year round in the not too distant future.  

I don’t think Geneva or Edinburgh is in the cards, and Lisbon seems like it might be a stretch, but who knows.

Edited June 24, 2019 by cltbwimob

[kermit]

^ Isn't there also a roadblock on European flights (in the standard time slots) due to capacity limitations in the customs hall? I know we are talking about smaller aircraft but...

[Not sure, just working from distant memory]

[KJHburg]

Concourse B renovations complete.

https://www.cltairport.com/newsroom/charlotte-douglas-international-airport-completes-concourse-b-renovations/

[Havemercy]

Good article packed with information.  Potential for CLT - China service, mentions the possibility of AA expanding CLT to Europe with the smaller planes, O&D traffic continues to grow. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/06/28/could-charlotte-get-flights-to-china-and-europe-thanks-to-new-beijing-airport-and-airbus-a321xrl/

[LKN704]

I'm sorry, but I just cannot see it. I would love to be proven wrong, but I just don't see it happening. 

AA can't make Chicago-China work. We will see how DL's ATL-China service works out in the long run. They tried it a few years back and it didn't work out. There are just other US gateways that US carriers would prefer to use precious China slots on. Not only that, but China isn’t exactly a gold mine. The influx of Chinese carriers on US-China routes has made many routes incredibly low-yielding that they aren't likely to be profitable. While Chinese carriers can afford to take losses due to prestige, US carriers cannot.

To give you an idea on the yields: I just booked a IAD-HKG roundtrip on Air China connecting in PEK this October for only $535 (good timings too, only around a 75 minute layover on both directions). That's insane. I checked the price for the IAD-PEK nonstop on Air China and it was just $565. A bargain. I'm a bit wary of the service on Air China on the other hand though....

Edited June 29, 2019 by LKN704

[CLTaviation13]

New jetBlue schedule is utter trash. They literally copied and pasted the JFK-CLT flight times over to BOS. Hopefully thats a temporary place holder until they actually make the proper schedule. Disgusting as of now. 

BOS-CLT arrival times

8:26, 10:17, 2:18, 7:10, 9:01

CLT-BOS departure times

9:02, 10:49, 2:57, 8:00, 9:39

Its like the JFK flight never left!

 

[CLT_sc]

8 minutes ago, JetBlueCLT said:

New jetBlue schedule is utter trash. They literally copied and pasted the JFK-CLT flight times over to BOS. Hopefully thats a temporary place holder until they actually make the proper schedule. Disgusting as of now. 

BOS-CLT arrival times

8:26, 10:17, 2:18, 7:10, 9:01

CLT-BOS departure times

9:02, 10:49, 2:57, 8:00, 9:39

Its like the JFK flight never left!

 

Is there a good reason why JetBlue does not have more CLT flights?  I am not too familiar with their business plan.

[CLTaviation13]

On 6/23/2019 at 5:04 PM, cltbwimob said:

I looked at a range mapper and assuming I operated it correctly, I believe all of these are in range along with all major Scandinavian cities with the exception of Helsinki.  If that’s the case, my bets would be on Manchester, Amsterdam, Düsseldorf, Zurich, and Stockholm (due to the ties with Electrolux and Husqvarna).  I also think with the A321XLR, a strong case could be made for year round  flights to Madrid, Paris, and Barcelona...Dublin as well, but I hope that one is served by Aer Lingus metal year round in the not too distant future.  

I don’t think Geneva or Edinburgh is in the cards, and Lisbon seems like it might be a stretch, but who knows.

I myself agree with all except year round Barcelona and Amsterdam. From my understanding thats a highly summer seasonal market.  I don't even think PHL has year round flights to Barcelona. As for Amsterdam, thats something I could see being added in the near future on an A332 imo. Hopefully we get Are Lingus year round to CLT before AA does lol. 

[CLTaviation13]

1 minute ago, CLT_sc said:

Is there a good reason why JetBlue does not have more CLT flights?  I am not too familiar with their business plan.

I mean all things considered, CLT actually has a good amount of flights from them. For example, places like DFW/HOU have only 2, DTW/MSP/CLE have 3 etc etc.

Anyways, jetBlue business plan in a nutshell is Northeast-South/International flying, key business markets out of Boston, and transccon from JFK/BOS. 

As of today jetBlue has 157 departures from BOS. jetBlue said they want to grow BOS to 200 flights a day. That leaves plenty of opportunity to pick up a 6th BOS flight in the short term. 

[Miesian Corners]

16 minutes ago, JetBlueCLT said:

 Hopefully we get Are Lingus year round to CLT before AA does lol. 

Could go either way. Aer Lingus is owned by IAG (parent of BA and Iberia). They'll soon be part of OneWorld (code sharing. etc...).

[Miesian Corners]

On 6/23/2019 at 6:24 PM, kermit said:

^ Isn't there also a roadblock on European flights (in the standard time slots) due to capacity limitations in the customs hall? I know we are talking about smaller aircraft but...

[Not sure, just working from distant memory]

There were plans to build a temporary CBP area on old A, but that might have changed. The current customs hall will get a tiny bit larger later this summer with the space created under the new D/E food court (but it's not adding any processing space, only new offices). 

What I don't understand is why CLT is the only large airport in America without Mobile Passport capability. Every airport I've used it in has been a breeze, even at JFK.

[CLTaviation13]

1 minute ago, Miesian Corners said:

Could go either way. Aer Lingus is owned by IAG (parent of BA and Iberia). They'll soon be part of OneWorld (code sharing. etc...).

Indeed, and with them getting the A321 NEO LR soon, its definitely possible.

[LKN704]

IIRC long term plans are to convert C2-C4-C6 into "swing gates" that have a sterile corridor leading to the CBP area, but that does nothing to solve current capacity issues of the CBP processing area (it would likely make it worse TBH).

[CLT704]

10 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

IIRC long term plans are to convert C2-C4-C6 into "swing gates" that have a sterile corridor leading to the CBP area, but that does nothing to solve current capacity issues of the CBP processing area (it would likely make it worse TBH).

I personally believe that once the new runway is built and 5/23 is demolished that either 1. a new international concourse should be built midfield or 2. a new commuter concourse is built midfield with the current E being demolished to make way for new INTL gates. I'm pretty sure 2 is the long, long-term plan. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by CLT704

[nakers2]

3 hours ago, CLT704 said:

I personally believe that once the new runway is built and 5/23 is demolished that either 1. a new international concourse should be built midfield or 2. a new commuter concourse is built midfield with the current E being demolished to make way for new INTL gates. I'm pretty sure 2 is the long, long-term plan. 

All indications I've seen are for a midfield terminal to take regional flights away from E. I imagine it would have some capacity for main-liners too. Obviously this will be a huge undertaking, I don't think people realize how massive an airport really is, and this would certainly need an ATL style "plane train" to take folks from main to midfield. I forget what the plans for D/E were long term, but my understanding is that E as we know it will be no more, I imagine a spur off of D will be in order to increase international capacity, and possibly accommodate a jumbo/superjumbo if only for occasional use. 

On another note, does anyone here know/think it would be feasible to utilize the old 1970's terminal as a secondary entry/security point to the airport? I still think of course there needs to be connectivity from any midfield terminal to the main terminal, however by funneling those who have regional departures through a separate area, it could help with congestion an open up more opportunity to expand mainline service. 

[TCLT]

On another note, does anyone here know/think it would be feasible to utilize the old 1970's terminal as a secondary entry/security point to the airport? I still think of course there needs to be connectivity from any midfield terminal to the main terminal, however by funneling those who have regional departures through a separate area, it could help with congestion an open up more opportunity to expand mainline service. 

I don’t think there’s any need for a second terminal. CLT is 80%+ connecting passengers who never leave the secure area. Local pax are primarily flying mainline flights anyway on AA or else going to Concourse A for another airline. And once the terminal lobby expansion is done there should be plenty of capacity to accommodate those local pax well into the future. Plus a second terminal entrance would complicate parking, rental car access, and pickup/drop off.

[LKN704]

4 hours ago, CLT704 said:

I personally believe that once the new runway is built and 5/23 is demolished that either 1. a new international concourse should be built midfield or 2. a new commuter concourse is built midfield with the current E being demolished to make way for new INTL gates. I'm pretty sure 2 is the long, long-term plan. 

Long term plans call for the demolition of both Concourse E and the majority of Concourse D while utilizing the low C gates as INTL gates. The plan makes little sense to me TBH.

A midfield INTL concourse would complicate matters for local CLT pax as unless they built a secondary FIS for local pax or kept the existing one intact (and built a system similar to the one currently in place for UA at IAD where local and connecting pax are separated; local pax ride a mobile lounge to the FIS building whilst connecting pax pass through FIS on the concourse and then re-clear security) they would be required to recheck their checked baggage at the midfield concourse and then re-clear security, ride the APM to the main terminal, and then reclaim their baggage landside. 

[nakers2]

3 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

Long term plans call for the demolition of both Concourse E and the majority of Concourse D while utilizing the low C gates as INTL gates. The plan makes little sense to me TBH.

That seems odd they would do that, I can understand the E gates, but why D? Makes me curious what they'd use that space for. CLT should focus on growing gate numbers, no reducing them. 

[xapostrophe]

16 hours ago, nakers2 said:

That seems odd they would do that, I can understand the E gates, but why D? Makes me curious what they'd use that space for. CLT should focus on growing gate numbers, no reducing them. 

2 way traffic at the end of the concourse.

I would guess mid field and e concourse replacement would net more Gates

[UrbanCharlotte]

American Airlines returned 14 weekly flights from Chicago to China back to the U.S. Department of Transportation, opening the door for rivals United Airlines and Delta Air Lines to add to their Asian network.

American Airlines Group Inc. (NASDAQ: AAL) told the DOT in a regulatory filing Friday that despite efforts, the carrier "is unable to resume its two services in the near future."

American, the dominant carrier at Charlotte Douglas International Airport, suspended seven flights from Chicago to Beijing and seven more to Shanghai in October 2018, citing too much supply in the market for the level of demand it was seeing for the flights.

[gman430]

I guess everybody hates China now.  It’s them tariffs I tell you.

[CLT>]

19 hours ago, nakers2 said:

All indications I've seen are for a midfield terminal to take regional flights away from E. I imagine it would have some capacity for main-liners too. Obviously this will be a huge undertaking, I don't think people realize how massive an airport really is, and this would certainly need an ATL style "plane train" to take folks from main to midfield. I forget what the plans for D/E were long term, but my understanding is that E as we know it will be no more, I imagine a spur off of D will be in order to increase international capacity, and possibly accommodate a jumbo/superjumbo if only for occasional use. 

On another note, does anyone here know/think it would be feasible to utilize the old 1970's terminal as a secondary entry/security point to the airport? I still think of course there needs to be connectivity from any midfield terminal to the main terminal, however by funneling those who have regional departures through a separate area, it could help with congestion an open up more opportunity to expand mainline service. 

D sticks around, E goes away, and we're talking 2035 or later...

[KJHburg]

here is another article about AA cutting those China flights from Chicago.  "Colossal loss" is what they said.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2019/07/01/american-gives-up-on-14-flights-to-china-citing.html

[CLT2014]

A nonstop flight from LAX to Beijing is $486 this summer in economy on American Airlines, tying up an aircraft for a 13 hour 20 minute flight. Meanwhile they are charging $558 for a 2 hour 40 min nonstop flight between DFW and Cancun. AA's China routes are certainly loss leaders to keep some of their frequent fliers happy and prevent them from jumping ship to UA or DL. 

Edited July 2, 2019 by CLT2014