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Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

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I would hold your breath for the SkyClub until an official announcement is made from DL. 

I would expect that probably only 4-6 gates would be for Delta. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some other airlines (NK/F9) to move over to give Airlines in Phase I some breathing room. 

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14 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

I would hold your breath for the SkyClub until an official announcement is made from DL. 

I would expect that probably only 4-6 gates would be for Delta. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some other airlines (NK/F9) to move over to give Airlines in Phase I some breathing room. 

While I also don’t want to get too excited until an official announcement is made, there’s no way DL allows CLT to release a rendering with a SkyClub unless they’re committed to building one.  Also, DL already had 6 gates, so I’d expect them to add at least 1-2 more given current gate constraints; however, I doubt they’ll take all 10 since there are realistically only a few destinations they would consider adding (Seattle, Boston, Austin?) that they don’t already serve unless they plan to significantly increase frequencies on exiting routes.  And, like LKN704 said, the current A-North is already essentially at capacity.

Also, continuing the lounge speculation, here is an email I received today from the Director of Strategic Network Development at the largest independent (Priority Pass or pay-per-use) lounge network in the US, which is rapidly adding new locations.  As I mentioned previously, I think the same location on the current A-North is a perfect location for The Club CLT.

 

29F1F15C-D85B-4BC9-AF54-CB2E7E3E5226.thumb.jpeg.c06180ae665b62f6d01c268eb436b306.jpeg

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On 8/9/2019 at 10:35 PM, LKN704 said:

My money personally would be on MAD going year-round. It's essentially a hub to hub flight. When US ran CLT-CDG year-round (although 3x weekly) from 2010 to 2012, I remember the flights were pretty empty during the Winter time, although I have no idea on the yields. I will say that the "AA" brand is/was stronger in CDG than the US brand, just as the US brand was stronger in Germany than AA.

I believe that the slot that AA owns that Finnair currently uses is rumored to be for the third daily CLT-LHR flight-but I don't know whether Finnair has the rights to that slot until 2020 or 2021. 

This and those tweets are like another language to me!

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Love the design of the new terminals but man this looks like it's going to be a hike to get to if that roof mid walkway is already the most recent expansion.  I won't complain about landing in E36 anymore after this :)

image.png.8801d92bf272e3ea02e30d16ceb5aec1.png

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Love the design of the new terminals but man this looks like it's going to be a hike to get to if that roof mid walkway is already the most recent expansion.  I won't complain about landing in E36 anymore after this
image.png.8801d92bf272e3ea02e30d16ceb5aec1.png

I believe they plan a separate remote check in here eventually. I’ll see if I can find it in the master plan when I get to work.


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17 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I believe they plan a separate remote check in here eventually. I’ll see if I can find it in the master plan when I get to work.

 

On 7/2/2019 at 3:29 PM, TCLT said:

Terminal Phase 7.JPG

The master plan shows a connection to a future parking deck from the A north extensions  and what appears to be a space where ticket counters could theoretically go, but I don't think the current design of the concourses is going to support that. The aircraft gates are right up against the roadway and there isn't a ground level that would be suitable for passengers. Plus those connecting hallways aren't that wide. So as it stands I can't see where you could create a landside area where you would put ticket counters, baggage carousels, and a TSA checkpoint. I think passengers are going to be stuck walking from the main terminal lobby (which will be expanded tbf) to the A north concourses. 

 

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I’ll try to find it as well when I get home. 

Its supposed to be a two level facility with three carousels on the lower level IIRC and then 4 island-style check-in rows on the upper level. 

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50 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

I’ll try to find it as well when I get home. 

Its supposed to be a two level facility with three carousels on the lower level IIRC and then 4 island-style check-in rows on the upper level. 

Interesting. And this would be an addition onto the currently built/under construction concourses?

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1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

I’ll try to find it as well when I get home. 

Its supposed to be a two level facility with three carousels on the lower level IIRC and then 4 island-style check-in rows on the upper level. 

Adding a second level is a really good idea for this stretch.

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56 minutes ago, TCLT said:

Interesting. And this would be an addition onto the currently built/under construction concourses?

yea its somewhere, but the PDF has eluded me thus far. I have 100% seen detailed drawings.

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Terminal A Expansion looks fantastic, I wish the entire airport looked like that instead of the recent renovations, but somewhat understandably it won't.  It's also very interesting that the most modern part of the airport is occupied by non AA carriers. 

 

Although not going to be a common occurrence, but imaging landing and parking at E gates and having to walk to 2nd Terminal A Expansion area, going to be a nice walk! 

Edited by NikolaTesla

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46 minutes ago, NikolaTesla said:

Although not going to be a common occurrence, but imaging landing and parking at E gates and having to walk to 2nd Terminal A Expansion area, going to be a nice walk! 

It could be worse.... they could have to exit the sterile area, take a shuttle, and re-clear security at the other terminal for some inter- airlines transfers at airports like JFK, LAX, Chicago O'Hare, Detroit, Minneapolis St. Paul, Raleigh-Durham, Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc...

The walking time is likely better than having to re-clear security for the  limited amount of passengers connecting between American Eagle and the other airlines. 

Edited by CLT2014
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"There is nothing there [new international announcements from CLT] in part because there is not much real estate to put another big A330 into Charlotte... this is one of the reasons we're really excited for the XLR, the XLR can use the footprint of a 321 but can launch services from Charlotte to Europe, which is really exciting to us". - Vasu Raja

Sorry to hijack the thread from A-north expansion but it’s a shame that CLT is getting nothing at all, even CDG/MAD year-round, which is doable right now. The XLR is due in 2023 so we have to wait 4 years. We really need a new international concourse.

Edited by CLT704
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I’m incredibly confused about all the talk about the XLR, which isn’t happening until AT LEAST 2023, pending no delivery delays from Airbus, not to mention who knows what the state of the economy will be in in 2023. I’m all for companies making big plans for the future, but I just find it odd they are being publicly specific with plans for the XLR. 

AA is both the problem and solution to the lack of gate space for widebody flying at CLT. If they really want to add that flying at CLT, they could pony up their own money to fund a new pier or provide funding so that a FIS facility can be built onto Phase 2 of A North. They must not want to add that flying so bad. 

Also I guess they could play around with TATL schedules a bit more. I don’t think they have many TATL arrivals in the 6p-7pm range. Likewise, I think the only late night departure is 732 to LHR. They could add other late night European departures in that bank as well. 

Plus, aren’t the new A gates that AA will have access to coming on line next summer?

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14 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

I’m incredibly confused about all the talk about the XLR, which isn’t happening until AT LEAST 2023, pending no delivery delays from Airbus, not to mention who knows what the state of the economy will be in in 2023. I’m all for companies making big plans for the future, but I just find it odd they are being publicly specific with plans for the XLR. 

AA is both the problem and solution to the lack of gate space for widebody flying at CLT. If they really want to add that flying at CLT, they could pony up their own money to fund a new pier or provide funding so that a FIS facility can be built onto Phase 2 of A North. They must not want to add that flying so bad. 

Also I guess they could play around with TATL schedules a bit more. I don’t think they have many TATL arrivals in the 6p-7pm range. Likewise, I think the only late night departure is 732 to LHR. They could add other late night European departures in that bank as well. 

Plus, aren’t the new A gates that AA will have access to coming on line next summer?

All very valid points, they did get me thinking. 

With regards to AA funding a new FIS, maybe they are putting money towards upfitting the C gates for INTL- isn't the plan to have a secure corridor into FIS from C? 1. When is that happening? 2. Is it in conjugation with C renovations. 3. How many INTL gates will that provide? 4. How many A330s could fit on C? My (optimistic?) thought is that AA does want to add INTL flights but is waiting for the airport to sort itself out. CLT really seems to be dragging its feet when it comes to INTL infrastructure. As for a new pier, that wouldn't happen in time for 2020 and we don't know what the airport is planning beyond, who knows maybe the airport and AA are talking about increasing INTL capacity for 2021. 

With the new A gates, it appears to me that AA has enough gate space for departing A330s and Euro flights but not arriving. Concourse D is so small that it's difficult already for arriving flights. 

I was also thinking that the comment Vasu Raja said in the Tell Me Why podcast was in regards to summer 2020 announcements, moving CDG/MAD to year-round announcement could come at a later date (again, trying to be optimistic); anyhow, I think he was specifying peak summer travel when the airport is stretched with all the seasonal flying- so I am still hopeful. 

 

Either way, I still think CLT needs a new INTL concourse; in my head, I think the best approach would be to build a new midfield concourse once the new parallel runway is open (with temporary INTL gate increase through expansion onto C gates) that has access to FIS from all gates- it could be used for domestic or international when necessary. This would be more than a few years away but i think it's the best long term solution. 

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21 minutes ago, CLT704 said:

All very valid points, they did get me thinking. 

With regards to AA funding a new FIS, maybe they are putting money towards upfitting the C gates for INTL- isn't the plan to have a secure corridor into FIS from C? 1. When is that happening? 2. Is it in conjugation with C renovations. 3. How many INTL gates will that provide? 4. How many A330s could fit on C? My (optimistic?) thought is that AA does want to add INTL flights but is waiting for the airport to sort itself out. CLT really seems to be dragging its feet when it comes to INTL infrastructure. As for a new pier, that wouldn't happen in time for 2020 and we don't know what the airport is planning beyond, who knows maybe the airport and AA are talking about increasing INTL capacity for 2021. 

With the new A gates, it appears to me that AA has enough gate space for departing A330s and Euro flights but not arriving. Concourse D is so small that it's difficult already for arriving flights. 

I was also thinking that the comment Vasu Raja said in the Tell Me Why podcast was in regards to summer 2020 announcements, moving CDG/MAD to year-round announcement could come at a later date (again, trying to be optimistic); anyhow, I think he was specifying peak summer travel when the airport is stretched with all the seasonal flying- so I am still hopeful. 

 

Either way, I still think CLT needs a new INTL concourse; in my head, I think the best approach would be to build a new midfield concourse once the new parallel runway is open (with temporary INTL gate increase through expansion onto C gates) that has access to FIS from all gates- it could be used for domestic or international when necessary. This would be more than a few years away but i think it's the best long term solution. 

You would need some sort of double lumen tunnel running from the midfield concourse.    Arriving international passengers would clear in the midfield terminal and re-clear security and enter the concourse (or tunnel, to head to ABCDE) but CLT-terminating passengers would be trapped with their bags.  There would need to be a second tunnel headed to the curb.  

Edited by kickazzz2000

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7 minutes ago, kickazzz2000 said:

You would need some sort of double lumen tunnel running from the midfield concourse.    Arriving international passengers would clear in the midfield terminal and re-clear security and enter the concourse (or tunnel, to head to ABCDE) but CLT-terminating passengers would be trapped with their bags.  There would need to be a second tunnel headed to the curb.  

What would most likely occur in this scenario is similar to ATL (pre Concourse F) is that all pax (even CLT local pax) would be re-screened and then take the APM to the main terminal with everyone else. CLT pax would recheck their bags in the midfield Concourse and then claim them landside.

This used to be the procedure at CLT in the late 1990s prior to the opening of the Concourse D expansion (except of course there was no APM at CLT). 

One thing to keep in mind is that AA is spending a BILLION dollars on their LAX project so they could easily spend that type of money here if they desired to. There just isn’t a need or a competitive reason to do so.

I still don’t see why CLT wouldn’t get a year round flight to CDG/MAD because of this announcement. It’s not like doing so is adding new flights to the strained infrastructure, those flights already exist today. 

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4 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Opportunity cost: Flying packed A330's down to the Caribbean at $600 a person for just 2.5 hours of flight time generates more revenue for the netwrok than giving away airfare at $450 - $700 in the off season to European tourist destinations and tying up an aircraft for 8 hours each way. 

For example in January 2019:
Greenville / Spartanburg - Punta Cana via CLT on the A330: $564
Greenville / Spartanburg - Madrid via ORD: $578

St Louis, MO - Punta Cana via CLT on the A330: $615
St Louis, MO - Paris via PHL on the A330: $700

Even then, the slack in A330 utilisation is extreme and AA doesn’t seem to do as much winter island flying with the 330s as they did previously. Consequently, there should be enough for both and  for Madrid, you would only need 1 extra aircraft: plane A flies to MAD one night, plane B flies to the islands and back the next day, A flies back to the USA, B flies to Madrid, A overnights in CLT flies to the islands the next day. Surely it would allow for maximum usage of the planes 

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I noticed that AA scheduled a couple one-off A332 flights to LAX during the holidays.

This is probably the first time CLT had wide body service to LAX since 2002 or so.

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On 8/14/2019 at 4:31 PM, LKN704 said:

One thing to keep in mind is that AA is spending a BILLION dollars on their LAX project so they could easily spend that type of money here if they desired to. There just isn’t a need or a competitive reason to do so.

I still don’t see why CLT wouldn’t get a year round flight to CDG/MAD because of this announcement. It’s not like doing so is adding new flights to the strained infrastructure, those flights already exist today. 

I'm no expert in the airline industry by any means, but I could definitely see Charlotte getting renovated in the future soon. Now, living out of ATL, I've actually never flown to Charlotte before, so I don't know how strong AA's hold is, but most airlines are reinvesting a lot into their their terminals. Delta is spending upwards  of 12 billion at ATL, SLC, SEA, LGA,etc. United is also spending a lot to help renovate O'Hare and their main hubs as well. 

As for CDG, that would actually be a pretty good flight. I don't think there would be too much competition from that area. The only major thing AA would have to worry about is AirFranceKLM, and Delta since that it a SkyTeam stronghold. It's similar to FRA with United/Lufthansa and LHR with AA and BA.

Edited by Ric0_0

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