Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[U_R_]

 

1 hour ago, kermit said:

 

 

 

Is that the plane train from ATL? If so, I've didn't realize that's what it looked like with lights.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Ric0_0

[TCLT]

24 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

IIRC, isn't the plan to replace the Long Term Lots with closer in decks?  That would allow more to be built south of Wilkinson too.  If all goes right, this could be a pretty hot area outside the central core.  I think that is worth more than kneecapping the Belmont/Gastonia possibility by ending the line at the airport.

That was part of the last plan the airport put out. Daily North and Long Term 2 are consolidated into additional parking decks to make room for offices/hotel/conference development. The people mover is an elevated tram line to connect everything between the light rail stations and the terminal

Edited September 25, 2019 by TCLT

[Cadi40]

This is easily 30 years out.

[csweet]

Do you have the link to the 3D master plan?

[TCLT]

2 minutes ago, csweet said:

Do you have the link to the 3D master plan?

You can access it from here: https://www.cltairport.com/community/commercial-development/

And this is the direct link to the PDF file: https://downloads.ctfassets.net/jaw4bomip9l3/7uXSM106WtPJ97O4b41D4Z/d9213e2d85d9959c3087e88b66487834/CLT_ACDS_-_FINAL_Website_Size.pdf

[Mgelbach]

11 hours ago, kermit said:

Think subway. CLT does need a better way to connect remote lots and (before long) to other terminals.

While it seems ridiculous to spend 100s of millions on a stand alone, small area, transit system, it makes political sense. The airport has plenty of money for this and it would be a decent investment. Using airport cash for CATS transit would raise a bunch of eyebrows among the folks who attempted to steal the airport a few years ago. At least the people mover will allow CATS to run a speedier route to Belmont.

Whatever happened to that? North Carolina trying to take over the airport for a while was huge news and then it just disapeared and I haven't heard anything since.

[kermit]

3 hours ago, Mgelbach said:

Whatever happened to that? North Carolina trying to take over the airport for a while was huge news and then it just disapeared and I haven't heard anything since.

Obama’s FAA administration (run by Anthony Foxx), the entity who had to transfer the operating certificate to the new authority, said “this won’t happen on our watch.”

I honestly think the RWNJs in Raleigh forgot about it after the 2016 election. After the 2018 election, was protected by Roy Cooper’s veto.

Edited September 25, 2019 by kermit

[Mgelbach]

Thanks for the update! I remember the FAA blocking it but heard it was just temporary, but that was the last. I'm so glad the airport is staying under Charlotte's control who helped it grow in the first place.

[LKN704]

The people mover also will eventually replace bus service to the Daily Decks, the Daily North lot, and the Long Term lot. It's a relatively good investment, IMHO. 

Long ago (10 years back) the eventual plan was to have the OAL Terminal Headhouse (baggage claim and ticketing for airlines operating out of A North) being linked to an airport hotel that sat where the current control tower is. A station would have been situated there, and then another one closer one to the Main Terminal building. This was when A North was supposed to be used as a designated International Terminal. There was supposed to be another Headhouse for Concourse E. 

I wouldn't be surprised if there was simply a central APM Station serving both terminals. There aren't concrete renderings of the new OAL Terminal Headhouse (at least not publicly accessible) other than sketches of floor plans showing the ticketing island rows and the baggage carousels. 

[kermit]

Seems like the definition of mediocre. But rejoice! Travelers like CLT better than JFK!

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by kermit

[LKN704]

It's all relative and based on what you are looking for or into in an airport.

I really like SFO. Their international terminal is probably the nicest in the US, they have a Centurion Lounge, and are making great progress on refurbishing their terminals. Seattle is nice as well IMHO, as is YYZ. EWR is a dump, and I think PHX is pretty dumpy as well, at least the part where AA's hub is located.

ATL to me is a pain, I think the concourses there to be too narrow, and I find the train system a hassle. I found making connections at DFW to be a pain because of the massive size of each terminal and the awkward shape of each terminal. 

I personally really like YVR a lot, but maybe they were not ranked because they aren't busy enough. 

[kermit]

Atlanta airport (and many others) are seeing declines in parking revenue due to uber and lyft:

https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/more-travelers-using-uber-and-lyft-fewer-using-taxis-and-airport-parking/990433830

[U_R_]

Delta said Thursday that it intends to buy a 20% stake in Chile-based Latam Airlina Group SA for $1.9 billion in cash and newly issued debt. Under the new arrangement with Delta, Latam will leave the Oneworld alliance of which American is a part.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/delta-air-lines-to-take-20-stake-in-latam-airlines-for-1-9-billion-11569535436

I don't personally know the AA/LATAM relationship at Charlotte, but I'm just posting this because I could definitely see it altering some routes down the line. 

[CLT704]

4 hours ago, Ric0_0 said:

Delta said Thursday that it intends to buy a 20% stake in Chile-based Latam Airlina Group SA for $1.9 billion in cash and newly issued debt. Under the new arrangement with Delta, Latam will leave the Oneworld alliance of which American is a part.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/delta-air-lines-to-take-20-stake-in-latam-airlines-for-1-9-billion-11569535436

I don't personally know the AA/LATAM relationship at Charlotte, but I'm just posting this because I could definitely see it altering some routes down the line. 

 

Would be nice to see S. America routes from CLT again. 

[southslider]

On 9/25/2019 at 11:53 AM, LKN704 said:

The people mover also will eventually replace bus service to the Daily Decks, the Daily North lot, and the Long Term lot. It's a relatively good investment, IMHO. 

Saving all the fleet, fuel, and labor costs of the parking shuttles, plus freeing up traffic on airport roads and curb space at the terminal, are all reasons to build CLT's people-mover well before Silver Line ever reaches Wilkinson.

[CLT704]

On 9/27/2019 at 2:13 AM, Ric0_0 said:

Delta said Thursday that it intends to buy a 20% stake in Chile-based Latam Airlina Group SA for $1.9 billion in cash and newly issued debt. Under the new arrangement with Delta, Latam will leave the Oneworld alliance of which American is a part.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/delta-air-lines-to-take-20-stake-in-latam-airlines-for-1-9-billion-11569535436

I don't personally know the AA/LATAM relationship at Charlotte, but I'm just posting this because I could definitely see it altering some routes down the line. 

I've been thinking about this as an aviation geek and I think this makes S. America routes from CLT again more likely: AA has lost a connecting partner and now can't put people on to LATAM flights so loses out on the connections from the states that LATAM offered, so AA would probably want somewhere to send connecting passengers through: CLT offers this and the fact that it would be cheap considering our cost of operating from our airport. AA will probably beef up Miami flights but I potentially see winter seasonal service from CLT: we have the A330 slack in the winter, the A330s would operate over night leaving them to operate Caribbean flights during the day, we'd be cheap to send connecting passengers through. CLT could offer AA a nice S. American capacity boost during the high season. 

[xapostrophe]

30 minutes ago, CLT704 said:

I've been thinking about this as an aviation geek and I think this makes S. America routes from CLT again more likely: AA has lost a connecting partner and now can't put people on to LATAM flights so loses out on the connections from the states that LATAM offered, so AA would probably want somewhere to send connecting passengers through: CLT offers this and the fact that it would be cheap considering our cost of operating from our airport. AA will probably beef up Miami flights but I potentially see winter seasonal service from CLT: we have the A330 slack in the winter, the A330s would operate over night leaving them to operate Caribbean flights during the day, we'd be cheap to send connecting passengers through. CLT could offer AA a nice S. American capacity boost during the high season. 

Need moar Gates n runways ASAP

[TCLT]

1 hour ago, CLT704 said:

I've been thinking about this as an aviation geek and I think this makes S. America routes from CLT again more likely: AA has lost a connecting partner and now can't put people on to LATAM flights so loses out on the connections from the states that LATAM offered, so AA would probably want somewhere to send connecting passengers through: CLT offers this and the fact that it would be cheap considering our cost of operating from our airport. AA will probably beef up Miami flights but I potentially see winter seasonal service from CLT: we have the A330 slack in the winter, the A330s would operate over night leaving them to operate Caribbean flights during the day, we'd be cheap to send connecting passengers through. CLT could offer AA a nice S. American capacity boost during the high season. 

I think the opposite would be true no? The primary feed AA loses is on the South America side, from the LATAM flights to/from the smaller markets. And LATAM doesn't currently fly to US cities that offer unique connections that MIA/DFW can't serve. If anything, I'd think AA adds additional service from MIA to smaller markets to try to keep/poach customers that were previously connecting from regional LATAM flights. A flight from CLT to existing hubs like GRU or EZE or BOG doesn't really replace anything AA is losing. And adding a flight from CLT into a market that no longer has feed or connecting options and overflying the much stronger MIA hub doesn't seem to make sense. Absent a JV with LATAM and with the current economic issues in Brazil and Argentina, I'd guess that flights from CLT aren't likely.

[Dale]

On 9/24/2019 at 10:38 PM, Cadi40 said:

This is easily 30 years out.

To coincide with commuter rail to Rock Hill ?

[LKN704]

If Brazil's and Argentina's economy was booming, I would say that flights to both GRU and EZE would be within the realm of possibility. Considering the economic (and political climate, too) in both states I would venture to say GRU and EZE flights are not happening anytime soon. 

The only South American climate I see CLT gaining in the coming years is BOG. There is a growing Colombian population in CLT, the economy of Colombia is growing quite significantly fast, and tourism to Colombia is growing by more than ten percent each year. I have been to both BOG and CTG and loved both of them. I have always felt really safe by taking proper precaution, and I believe BOG has a lower homicide rate these days than DC.  BOG is also accessible from CLT by an A319. 

[kickazzz2000]

36 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

If Brazil's and Argentina's economy was booming, I would say that flights to both GRU and EZE would be within the realm of possibility. Considering the economic (and political climate, too) in both states I would venture to say GRU and EZE flights are not happening anytime soon. 

The only South American climate I see CLT gaining in the coming years is BOG. There is a growing Colombian population in CLT, the economy of Colombia is growing quite significantly fast, and tourism to Colombia is growing by more than ten percent each year. I have been to both BOG and CTG and loved both of them. I have always felt really safe by taking proper precaution, and I believe BOG has a lower homicide rate these days than DC.  BOG is also accessible from CLT by an A319. 

MDE is incredible as well.

[urbanlover568]

4 hours ago, Dale said:

To coincide with commuter rail to Rock Hill ?

Tepper's $200M comes first. 

[Dale]

36 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Tepper's $200M comes first. 

And then Tepper’s $800M

[TCLT]

Looks like AA's first response to the LATAM defection is to increase frequencies to a few major South American markets from MIA. One additional daily flight each to Lima, Santiago, and Sao Paolo (all LATAM hubs).

Also announced the addition of BOS-LHR and extension of the season for some of the seasonal transatlantic flights. I'm really surprised that none of the CLT flights got a season extension and we still can't  land a third daily flight to LHR.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2019/American-Airlines-Solidifies-Leadership-Position-in-Miami-and-Adds-New-Nonstop-Boston-to-London-Service-NET-ALP/default.aspx

[LKN704]

How reactionary. Panic must be epidemic in the boardrooms of DFW. With their debt load and financial performance among the US3, I can't say this this is wise financially.  I wonder if this announcement is a sign of a larger wake-up call/reality-check for AA. 

AA is not going to stop LATAM from expanding in MIA. South Florida has the largest market to South America. This announcement also really won't affect DL, they will proceed with the LATAM partnership regardless. To me this seems like an intelligence failure, from my understanding AA + LATAM were still proceeding with their JV partnership, but the Chilean government viewed the JV as anti-competitive. 

If I understand correctly, the extra slot AA had acquired (from Finnair?) and was assumed to be for the third daily CLT-LHR service is now being used on BOS-LHR. 

I personally cannot understand BOS-LHR. AA served the route for several years with a daylight flight and then alternating between one and two daily evening flights. Flights were originally scheduled with an A300 then shifted to a 777 but being downgraded to a 763/757 and then discontinued outright in favor of BA operating the service altogether. There are now more flights from BOS to LHR than ever before, and I wonder if this is designed to take a strike at DL/Virgin Atlantic on BOS-LHR.  Puzzling to me that they would resume the service outright with a 777, but I guess that is where they have the most slack in the fleet. Their overall BOS strategy confuses me. AA once was about as large as DL is now at BOS (if not larger) with multiple daily European flights, flights to essentially every large city on the East Coast, the Caribbean, and SEA/SFO/LAX/SAN/LAS. US had a large East coast operation too. Both eventually cut back in favor of a cornerstone strategy at their respective hubs. 

With the LATAM announcement, I wouldn't be surprised to see AA cancel their plans to suspend Bolivian service, and to resume some cities that were suspended in Brazil, like Belo Horizonte. 

The PR states that more seasonal extensions are planned soon, so maybe CLT will get an extension.