Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[cltbwimob]

3 minutes ago, Tyrone Wiggum said:

Flights not passengers.  Tons of takeoffs, not so many people on those takeoffs.

This is correct.  We have a large regional jet operation that boosts the number of flights per day, but many of those flights only hold 50-70 people.  The ACI list for largest airports that is most often cited is the one using numbers of passengers as the metric, and the airports that occupy that list are usually airports with a ton of international flying with wide body aircraft which hold, depending on configuration,  3-10 times as many passengers per plane as a regional jet.

[CLT2014]

14 minutes ago, Tyrone Wiggum said:

Flights not passengers.  Tons of takeoffs, not so many people on those takeoffs.

We rank 37th in the world in total passengers, still not bad considering we don't even rank in the top 150 metropolitan areas in the world by population. We are lucky to have an airport much larger than our population. The vast majority of metros with <3 million people don't have the amount of flights we do, especially international to cities like London, Frankfurt, Munich, et. daily. This helps our business community over other mid size cities like St. Louis, Greensboro, Richmond, Cleveland, et. not blessed with large airports. 

Charlotte's peer airports in passengers volume are Munich (metro population of 6 million) and Taipei (metro population of 8.6 million). 

Edited November 15, 2019 by CLT2014

[csweet]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/11/18/after-building-dallas-american-airlines-eyes-charlotte-for-growth-with-700-daily-departures/

 

Interesting read on CLT growth. I was not aware that the new A gates were configured for widebodies.

[CLT704]

29 minutes ago, csweet said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/11/18/after-building-dallas-american-airlines-eyes-charlotte-for-growth-with-700-daily-departures/

 

Interesting read on CLT growth. I was not aware that the new A gates were configured for widebodies.

The plan I heard a while back was to use A a bit like B and have departures to Europe from the A gates and at some point INTL arrivals were planned for A too. 

[CLT2014]

"One international route American is targeting is Charlotte-Madrid, which currently has seasonal summer service but can go to year-round with the 321XLR."

[HopHead]

As others have mentioned, it looks like expanded international service to Europe from CLT is in the works over the next few years too. Which is great. Hopefully we also see that 3rd daily flight to London-Heathrow soon. 

On a side note, since they've opened the new roadways in front of the terminal, I've been through twice now (including yesterday). And it's a remarkable improvement. Seems to be so much less of a cluster f***. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by HopHead
typo

[csweet]

Unfortunately it looks like that slot was reallocated to the new BOS-LHR route. However, I am still hopeful for a new INTL carrier in the next 1-2 years. It is a stretch, but AC could add YUL, IB could add MAD, BA could add LHR, etc. 

[cltcane]

10 hours ago, HopHead said:

As others have mentioned, it looks like expanded international service to Europe from CLT is in the works over the next few years too. Which is great. Hopefully we also see that 3rd daily flight to London-Heathrow soon. 

On a side note, since they've opened the new roadways in front of the terminal, I've been through twice now (including yesterday). And it's a remarkable improvement. Seems to be so much less of a cluster f***. 

Traffic flow is exponentially better.

Also, seems like AA is adding frequency on existing routes vs. adding new destinations. Hopefully as existing RJ routes are upgauged, new routes to smaller and/or previously unserved cities will be added. There is a decent amount of domestic dot connecting AA can still do from CLT.  However, I can’t wait for the 321XLR to arrive. That will be a game changer for CLT international service.

[a2theb]

12 hours ago, cltcane said:

 However, I can’t wait for the 321XLR to arrive. That will be a game changer for CLT international service.

It will be but narrow body, single aisle international service is brutal. I love the 757 but any time I am booked on one for a flight longer than 4 hours my spirit breaks a little bit.

Edited November 19, 2019 by a2theb

[xapostrophe]

1 hour ago, a2theb said:

It will be but narrow body, single aisle international service is brutal. I love the 757 but any time I am booked on one for a flight longer than 4 hours my spirit breaks a little bit.

The word is the xlr will be configured similar the the 321t with a bunch of lay flat, flagship first.

Then business and some coach.

[Dale]

Took a 9:19 am to NYC. Obviously the sweet spot for getting through TSA. But, my gosh! The traffic on the runway ...

Newark Airport ain’t no looker, but oh so convenient for Manhattan.

[CLT2014]

2 hours ago, Dale said:

Took a 9:19 am to NYC. Obviously the sweet spot for getting through TSA. But, my gosh! The traffic on the runway ...

Newark Airport ain’t no looker, but oh so convenient for Manhattan.

Taxi times are heavily impacted by American's choice to operate a banked hub - spoke model. For example, between 9:15AM and 9:30AM, 40 flights push back from the gate and head to the runway. 14 of those flights have the exact same departure time of 9:20AM! They could operate a rolling hub, but can maximize connectivity by using banks. 

Then by 10AM there are only 8 flights departing between 10AM and 10:30AM. It can be interesting to watch the AA concourses get swarmed for 45 minutes and overflow with people and then gate by gate it becomes largely empty except for staff for about 30 minutes, then the swarm returns over and over, et. through the day.

Edited November 19, 2019 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

here  is a short video of new Plaza area in the airport.

 

[Dale]

4 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Taxi times are heavily impacted by American's choice to operate a banked hub - spoke model. For example, between 9:15AM and 9:30AM, 40 flights push back from the gate and head to the runway. 14 of those flights have the exact same departure time of 9:20AM! They could operate a rolling hub, but can maximize connectivity by using banks. 

Then by 10AM there are only 8 flights departing between 10AM and 10:30AM. It can be interesting to watch the AA concourses get swarmed for 45 minutes and overflow with people and then gate by gate it becomes largely empty except for staff for about 30 minutes, then the swarm returns over and over, et. through the day.

Oh my, that sheds some light!

[LKN704]

The new food court looks great. Any updates on the Centurion Lounge?

As I have mentioned before, I still think it is bizarre to be discussing possibly route allocations for the A321XLR when the EIS isn't until 2023, pending no delivery delays. Adding A321XLRs to the fleet does nothing to address the FIS congestion that CLT faces now. 

Banked hubs have their advantages, as discussed above (they maximize the amount of connections available, reduce overall connection times for passengers). One could make the argument I supposed that banked hub operations ultimately are more profitable/higher-yielding as they are more likely to attract business-travelers.

That said, banked hubs increased the chances of sh*t hitting the fan when something messes up. You can't contain congestion and spread it out in a banked hub like you can in a rolling hub. Rolling hubs also allow you to maximize the use of your employees and physical resources. In a banked hub where there are essentially no ops between say 1300 and 1500, you are paying your employees during that 2 hours when the hub isn't in operation. In banked hubs you run into issues such as when weather (or ATC or other factor) causes a delay that pushes the departures of one bank back into when another bank is starting to arrive causing issues like gates not being available, etc.

I don't think CLT has ever been a rolling hub. I know AA has flip-flopped on "rolling" and "banking" DFW for the past 15 years or so. 

[Mike R]

So or those who haven't actually been IN the airport recently...

B Concourse Admirals club completely remodeled - it is done...not much ( if any) larger but a better layout - restrooms didn't get any larger -  so any talk of Admirals Club rennovations in the future must be talking about the C Club

The old US Air club in D has long ago been over run with shoppes - right across from the new 'plaza' - that space is utilized

A Delta Club is in the artist rendering of the next phase of 'new A' development

AMEX Centurion lounge may take  some of the pressure off the Admirals Club (I prefer AMEX) and the Admirals Club now requires same day ticket on American -  that certainly reduces the appeal of 'membership' for those who fly airlines other than AA -  that may also reduce the over-crowding in the AA club

[LKN704]

Following ACK a couple years ago, AA is starting CLT-MVY on Saturdays next summer on an E175.

[Temeteron]

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

A 3-year-old boy died falling off an airport escalator. Now, his mom faces child abuse charges

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/11/21/north-carolina-mom-charged-after-son-dies-airport-escalator/4257423002/

 

holy crap!

[csweet]

https://thepointsguy.com/news/how-american-airlines-will-grow-its-charlotte-hub-to-more-than-700-flights/

Another great read on the expansion plans for CLT. 

[KJHburg]

Had an appointment at the airport today and checked out the new Plaza food court.  It was crowded and people seem to be enjoying the choices.  Now 2 Bojangles, 12 Starbucks I think the count is, local brewery bars, CLT is the place to be (as long as it is not the next few busy days)   2nd location for Minute Suites too next to the Plaza so I guess it doing good as there is still one in the main Atrium. 

and I as I have said before CLT Airport is one of Charlotte's best malls.  They are now getting a Spanx retail shop, right by the Brooks Brothers, Kiehl's, Tumi stores. 

One photo of C concourse shows your bank of flights as all the gates are filled with planes.  

[LKN704]

I flew out of the D concourse yesterday and it appears they added more lighting near the high-D gates (new hanging LED circular pendants and more lighting on the columns, as well as this blue lighting effect near the ceiling).

Much needed IMHO, as D always seemed to be dark and dim during the evening.

[csweet]

The lighting was all renovated recently, bummed that they took the plane down 

[tozmervo]

I believe they're supposed to begin finish renovations in D as A and C wrap up, so all the concourses will have the same general appearance (finishes, signage, etc). I wonder if we're just seeing some preliminary preparations?

[LKN704]

2 hours ago, csweet said:

The lighting was all renovated recently, bummed that they took the plane down 

Wow, I completely forgot about that! Something seemed missing from the space, but I couldn't figure out what. I wonder where it went, I hope they didn't just trash it. I guess it doesn't fit in with the "modern" image the renovations are supposed to have. Then again, HKIA has a beautiful model bi-plane suspended over the space between the arrivals/departures level and it fits in the space beautifully. 

 

2 hours ago, tozmervo said:

I believe they're supposed to begin finish renovations in D as A and C wrap up, so all the concourses will have the same general appearance (finishes, signage, etc). I wonder if we're just seeing some preliminary preparations?

I think D should be the easiest to refurbish. Just replace the signage, carpeting, and seating throughout (easy) and then install new ceiling tiles and LED lighting over the older low D gates (D1-5) and refurbish the restroom (both harder). 

I hope they keep the large compass signs at the entrance to each concourse. But I think they are in the process of being removed, if not already. I think the ones at the entrance of D and E are gone. 

[Urban Cowboy]

20 hours ago, csweet said:

The lighting was all renovated recently, bummed that they took the plane down 

My friend that works at the airport, as a project manager, said they’re planning to bring the plane back somewhere else.