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Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion


uptownliving

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I know it said it would help with landing, but I'm not so sure about departures. They said there were 3 reasons for late depts, weather (which I kind of have hard believing this as a reason for putting us last, since we have great weather comparably), closed runways (which an add'l runway theoretically would help this greatly), and high volume of flights (which is in my opinion the biggest problem, but this isn't going to change any time soon).

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We are in need of that runway, especially if things are only going to get busier. It's expensive, but it's the only solution. The article specifically said, we're in dead last for departures. Weather- there's nothing we can do. The other 2 situations for the contribution of our departure rating involve an additional runway as a sol'n. Either that or cut back the traffic that flows in and out of that airport. I'm sure an investment of this runway will pay of in its long run way anyway. Also, with the airport site plan the way it is with that add'l runway, I think it's setting up an ideal situation for if the airport expanded to more concourses. What I mean by this is, in the future if the airport and traffic demanded for it, we now have this beautiful area between the new runway and the center runway for add'l terminals, or plane storage, or whatever would be needed. The FTA did extensive research in the airport, also, determining that it is in need of the runway.

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On my last flight out of Charlotte Douglas, I had some spare time waiting around for my delayed flight. For the most part I think the airport is excellent. It's actually one of my favorites even though it is my home airport. Anyway, I was looking for things that need improvement and kind of brainstorming ideas around in my head. One of the first things I noticed was how bad the main terminal facing the tarmac as well as the B and C concourse need a good pressure washing or a new coat of paint outside. You can see it from just about any window inside the airport or from a plane as you pass by. The water stains make the main terminal look twice it's age.

Inside I think the main terminal inside the security checkpoint is in great shape and looks good to me. Other then updated monitors to check your flight, which I see on this thread are coming soon, I don't think any major improvements are needed. Outside the checkpoint will be redone soon so I ignored that. While I think that the main terminal is great appealing feature of the airport, Terminals A,B,C are nothing to write home about. They are not terrible and I have definitely been in worse, but they are kind of bland, outdated, and rundown in places. If you are there while a bank of flights arrive and depart it can feel claustrophobic. If I were from another city and made a connection in CLT and didn't have to change terminals I don't think I would be that impressed.

Maybe it's all the gray colors, from the chairs, to the walls, and the carpet that is the problem. The carpet is especially bad, and I know they are replacing sections and you can see the difference but it's still ugly in my opinion. I think making the main hallways in each concourse the same terrazzo floor as in the main terminal and in the newer concourses D & E would be much better looking and wouldn't wear out. If they had the budget, I would love to see the low drop down ceiling tiles ripped out above the main hallways in the A, B and C concourse and replaced with the exact same glass roof that is at Carolina Place Mall. That would bring in a ton of natural light and make the concourses feel a lot more spacious and modern. They would also look so futuristic at night with the blue neon accent lighting that is in the newer sections of the airport.

I know there was some talk of a monorail or tram that takes you from the airport to the new daily garages, as well as an on site hotel, but I haven't heard anything about that in a long time. I don't know if that is still planned or not, but that would be very convenient too.

As you can tell I was sitting around for quite a while, sorry if I am rambling. Does anyone else have any cool ideas that you wish you would see at the airport?

Edited by Ryepow
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Sounds good. Haven't been to the airport in about a year or so. The monorail idea is quite nice. A few airports utilize them or subways to get between different portions of the airport. I don't know how needed it actually is at the airport at this time (like I said haven't been in a while), but they always are very neat. I think there was talks, too, to include a monorail or tram or something to connect the streetcar station at the airport, if that ends up going down. Looks like a nice monorail could run across the entrance, hit long term parking, to a streetcar station or alternative transportation area. Could be very nifty. Do keep in mind that monorail's run significantly more expensive than the LRT that we have on a cost per mile, although I don't think much would be needed.

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I delved into the on-time statistics for CLT in May 2007 and broke it down by airline from best to worst:

Delta: 87% Ontime

AirTran: 84% Ontime

jetBlue: 81% Ontime

United: 75% Ontime

US Airways: 68% Ontime

American: 60% Ontime

Northwest: 55% Ontime

Interesting that the airlines at Charlotte with the best ontime ratings fly mostly to Atlanta which recently opened up a new runway. USAirways is still working out the kinks in their SHARES system and Northwest had a so called pilot shortage...not sure what was going on with American.

I guess we can all be glad we don't live in Philly where US Airways had a 59% Ontime performance in May.

Edited by uptownliving
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Dallas, Miami are crowded and have bad weather. New York is crowded and has bad weather. And St. Louis often has winter snows and thunderstorms between CLT and STL. Limited destinations, which are crowded and deal with weather, explain some of the American problems in CLT in addition to small regional jets.

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The 787 is now officially rolled out and is being hailed as the plane of the future, whole new approach to air travel, and promises a much better experience for air travelers. It's the most significant plane to be announced since the 747 and promises to change air travel as much as that famous plane.

Airline experts predict this may be the first plane that passengers demand..... It's a A380 killer.

It's too bad USAir won't be at that party.

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The headline article in this weeks Atlanta Business Chronicle is "Charlottes vs. Atlanta for China". It apparantly discusses US Airways wanting to fly the route, but I can't read more than the opening paragraph because I don't have a subscription. I was under the impression that USAirways wouldn't be flying the route anytime soon, so I'm just curious as to why it made the feature story this week int ATL....anyone?

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The headline article in this weeks Atlanta Business Chronicle is "Charlottes vs. Atlanta for China". It apparantly discusses US Airways wanting to fly the route, but I can't read more than the opening paragraph because I don't have a subscription. I was under the impression that USAirways wouldn't be flying the route anytime soon, so I'm just curious as to why it made the feature story this week int ATL....anyone?

They might be talking about the CLT-PHL-China route.

I could see "Charlotte" winning against ATL for the shear fact that CLT, and PHL, are both cities with no Asian flights.

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The 787 is now officially rolled out and is being hailed as the plane of the future, whole new approach to air travel, and promises a much better experience for air travelers. It's the most significant plane to be announced since the 747 and promises to change air travel as much as that famous plane.

Airline experts predict this may be the first plane that passengers demand..... It's a A380 killer.

It's too bad USAir won't be at that party.

One thing I keep wondering is why CLT did not have the foresight to plan a new runway which will allow the newer larger A380s to land, or am I totally wrong and they did actually think ahead about this??!!

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One thing I keep wondering is why CLT did not have the foresight to plan a new runway which will allow the newer larger A380s to land, or am I totally wrong and they did actually think ahead about this??!!

Almost no airport in the USA is spending the money to accomidate this airplane. It's no big deal, because as noted above, the future of long distance travel are planes like the 787, not the A380.

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^ Correct, Charlotte will likely never see enough traffic on certain routes that would justify the need for an A380. There is enough capacity that turning 6 flight a day from 737s to 6 flights on A320's would accomplish the goal....going to 3 flights on a A380 just isn't cost effective.

As far as the runway, the current 36L (which will become 36C) is the only runway that can be lengthened, due to surrounding uses. It has been on the plans for at least a decade to lengthen it to 12,000'. I have no idea if this is long enough to accomodate an A380, but its enough for everything else. The runway however, would only be a fraction of the cost. The length of the wings (and body) can't be accomodated at any gate because they are currently too close together. Also, the only way to efficiently load a A380 is with double-decker jetways, which of course would be another huge expense.

Realistically, the only way that CLT would ever see an A380 is if Charlotte to Phoenix hub traffic exceeded the ability of the A320 making hourly departures, or perhaps there was CLT-London business class demand that exceeded what 3 A350's per day could handle....I just don't see this ever happening.

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You are correct, atlrvr. Alot of the A380s that will go into service will do high-density flying in Asia. Take for instance, JAL flies 747s in Japan that cram nearly 500 people on board for service between KIX and NRT.

Neither Emirates, nor Singapore (the two biggest purchasers) care about medium haul markets. Emirates (I believe) is simply buying them because they're big. God-forbid Dubai do anything small.

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The CBJ is reporting that Charlotte based Bojangles will be opening up at the airport along with a Carolina Beer & Beverage Co. bar, Salsarita's Fresh Cantina, and a NASCAR merchandise store to name a few.

They also include a nice little chart of the upcoming expansion of the airport:

CONCOURSE D

$2.5 million renovation

7,813 square feet to include Rum Bar and Grill, World Passage duty-free expansion, Great American Bagel and Carolina Beer & Beverage Co. bar

Scheduled to open in 2008

CONCOURSE E

$2.2 million expansion

4,000 square feet to include Zia's caf

Edited by Raintree21
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No...well, not for A,B, or C....Concourses D and E are more open since they are more modern.

They are replacing the carpet in A,B, and C...and remodeling the bathrooms. That is all that is currently on tap for those concourses. No plans to open them up with skylights or taller ceilings.

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I'll be honest, I really really like Charlotte's airport. I fly a good deal, and I can't think of any other airport that is as logical or easy to navigate. Sure, there are a lot more modern and attractive airports (I just flew out of American's LAX terminal which is gorgeous), but they are all much less funcational in my opinion. Maybe I'm used to CLT, but whenever I go anywhere else, it seems to take me twice as long either entering of leaving the airport.

I for one am glad that Jerry Orr is such a cheap-skate, because I think its much more important to have a low-operating cost airport which encourages lots of service as opposed to one that is attractive, but fails to attract flights because of the high costs.

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I'll be honest, I really really like Charlotte's airport. I fly a good deal, and I can't think of any other airport that is as logical or easy to navigate. Sure, there are a lot more modern and attractive airports (I just flew out of American's LAX terminal which is gorgeous), but they are all much less funcational in my opinion. Maybe I'm used to CLT, but whenever I go anywhere else, it seems to take me twice as long either entering of leaving the airport.

I for one am glad that Jerry Orr is such a cheap-skate, because I think its much more important to have a low-operating cost airport which encourages lots of service as opposed to one that is attractive, but fails to attract flights because of the high costs.

Well said! Charlotte Douglas is a great airport. Its efficient, quick to get into and out, well centered and thank God Jerry Orr wants to stay within the budget! Since when was this a problem? Go Jerry go Jerry

Almost no airport in the USA is spending the money to accomidate this airplane. It's no big deal, because as noted above, the future of long distance travel are planes like the 787, not the A380.

The A380 is probably going to do better in Europe than here. Ever tried catching a London to Paris flight on Friday afternoon? If not - let me explain that each airline at Heathrow could have twenty A380's and their would still be people very upset that there were not enough seats.

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I'll be honest, I really really like Charlotte's airport. I fly a good deal, and I can't think of any other airport that is as logical or easy to navigate. Sure, there are a lot more modern and attractive airports (I just flew out of American's LAX terminal which is gorgeous), but they are all much less funcational in my opinion. Maybe I'm used to CLT, but whenever I go anywhere else, it seems to take me twice as long either entering of leaving the airport.

I for one am glad that Jerry Orr is such a cheap-skate, because I think its much more important to have a low-operating cost airport which encourages lots of service as opposed to one that is attractive, but fails to attract flights because of the high costs.

This is true. However I don't think it would cost too terribly much to replace some carpeting.

One of the most attractive airports I've ever been to is Houston's Hobby Airport. They renovated it recently and it's amazing!

Here is their terminal:

houston-hobby-airport-address.jpg

houston1.jpg

I don't have any real great pics, but their concourses are incredible, with wide walkways and tall ceilings with skylights. There is a whole bunch of metal included in the design and the restrooms are really nice as well. They have two concourses connected with the main terminal at the middle, so its layout (while much smaller) is very similar to Charlotte's. Did I mention Southwest flies out of there? So I feel that one can still have a nice looking airport and attract decent carriers at the same time.

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... Ever tried catching a London to Paris flight on Friday afternoon? If not - let me explain that each airline at Heathrow could have twenty A380's and their would still be people very upset that there were not enough seats.

Well in fact, I have but I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary concerning that flight. I am sure that British Air and Air France will put a few A380s in the air just as they did with the Concorde. It's a saving face measue since so much tax money went into the consortium and this project in the first place. The real question is will carriers such as Ryan will bother with the A380 for short hauls. My guess is no. Honestly however, the paris to london route is better served by planes like the 737 and its Airbus competition. I am not sure the public really wants to get on a local version of that A380 that is configured to hold 800 people.

Of course they can always take the train which is better for the environment anyway.

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I'll be honest, I really really like Charlotte's airport. I fly a good deal, and I can't think of any other airport that is as logical or easy to navigate. Sure, there are a lot more modern and attractive airports (I just flew out of American's LAX terminal which is gorgeous), but they are all much less funcational in my opinion. Maybe I'm used to CLT, but whenever I go anywhere else, it seems to take me twice as long either entering of leaving the airport.

I for one am glad that Jerry Orr is such a cheap-skate, because I think its much more important to have a low-operating cost airport which encourages lots of service as opposed to one that is attractive, but fails to attract flights because of the high costs.

I fly pretty much every week, and I agree that the CLT airport is great! Even people I have spoken to who have only connected were impressed. Even talking about people from NYC or Boston, any comments that I have heard about the CLT airport have been good. Despite the old signs (which are now being replaced) and the departure monitors being out of commission (also currently being replaced), CLT is a great airport. The selection of shops, bars, and restaurants is wonderful. Sure, there is not an Hermes or Cartier duty-free store, but who cares about that anyway? The flow of the airport for connecting flights works very well. And everyone from the north and west US loves those white rocking chairs! One of the biggest plusses is that one security checkpoint gets you to any gate possible -- many airports require you to go outside of security and then back in if switching terminals. This can make a seemingly easy connection impossible if there is a long line in security. That is not a problem here.

As far as attractiveness, I think CLT is average. The D concourse is awesome, because of it's tall ceiling and modern look. It reminds me of Detroit's airport (which is the best in the US in my opinion). E is easily split into three spurs so that you don't have to walk 38 gates down a concourse to get to gate 38. A, B, and C have a small enough amount of gates to make traveling to then end of them tolerable.

Anyway, CLT is a good aiport in my opinion. There are improvements that can be made, but I think they are more superficial than functional.

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