Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[LKN704]

That isn't necessarily new, at least in my experience. Every Basic Economy ticket I have ever purchased I have been able to purchase a seat exactly a week before departure. It could just be a glitch in the system, but I always have been able to do it. 

I never understood that rule to be honest, as letting folks purchase seats immediately at booking seems like an easy way to get ancillary revenue. Even UA lets you do this, which surprises me given their Basic Economy is the worst with their no-carry on item policy (and associated no online check in rule which forces you to see an agent to confirm you are in compliance with the carry on policy). 

[CLT2014]

13 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

That isn't necessarily new, at least in my experience. Every Basic Economy ticket I have ever purchased I have been able to purchase a seat exactly a week before departure. It could just be a glitch in the system, but I always have been able to do it. 

I never understood that rule to be honest, as letting folks purchase seats immediately at booking seems like an easy way to get ancillary revenue. Even UA lets you do this, which surprises me given their Basic Economy is the worst with their no-carry on item policy (and associated no online check in rule which forces you to see an agent to confirm you are in compliance with the carry on policy). 

I believe the goal was to up-sell the customer to Main Cabin, especially non-solo travelers. For example, if a family of four is booking with two toddlers, they don't want to risk being all separated. With pre-COVID load factors, a family couldn't guarantee 2 - 4 seats would all be side by side if waiting to 48 hours prior to departure. American knows this concerns families and people traveling together and they would thus upgrade to Main Cabin at booking rather than worry. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by CLT2014

[xapostrophe]

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

American is allowing Basic Economy passengers to pay for a seat assignment at the time of booking (rather than waiting to 48 hours before departure). Basic Economy customers can continue to wait until check in and receive a seat assignment selected by the airline free of charge. 

Looking at CLT - DEN for example for dates in July, Basic Economy is $93 round trip. Seat assignments are $10 each way for an aisle seat so total of $113 round trip. Main Cabin (which includes a seat assignment, better boarding group, and better miles structure) is $163.  Certainly makes Basic Economy a little more bearable / less stressful for customers on a budget and wanting a guaranteed seat with their kids or travel companion.

https://onemileatatime.com/american-airlines-basic-economy-seating/

Most of the passengers have been basic economy lately

[csweet]

Looks like Frontier will be suspending CLT flights until May

[LKN704]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Frontier/Allegiant shut down given their focus on P2P leisure routes, often to smaller/medium sized cities and lack of a business market focus. Spirit I would say likely will continue flying given their focus on larger metro areas. 

[Rufus]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:14 PM, LKN704 said:

Whatever is left of Delta in Cincinnati is gone IMO, as is that little Delta focus city in RDU, as they are both heavily RJ focused and RJs are the easiest to eliminate. 

I'm not sure I would put the two together. I think Raleigh is positioned better than CVG, and has been for a while. RDU was purely a response to AA in Charlotte, and it paid off in spades for Delta. I would say some reduced capacity, and obviously nowhere near the 14m passengers that were seen last year, but I'd be surprised if it dropped below 10m. The region is just too attractive from a business and relocation standpoint. I'd be interested to see what Austin and Nashville will be like after this, as those two are directly comparable to RDU.

[tozmervo]

2 hours ago, LKN704 said:

I wouldn't be surprised to see Frontier/Allegiant shut down given their focus on P2P leisure routes, often to smaller/medium sized cities and lack of a business market focus. Spirit I would say likely will continue flying given their focus on larger metro areas. 

Uhg. I has to cancel an allegiant flight due to COVID, so I now have a voucher with them. Really hope I can use that eventually...

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

1 hour ago, Rufus said:

I'm not sure I would put the two together. I think Raleigh is positioned better than CVG, and has been for a while. RDU was purely a response to AA in Charlotte, and it paid off in spades for Delta. I would say some reduced capacity, and obviously nowhere near the 14m passengers that were seen last year, but I'd be surprised if it dropped below 10m. The region is just too attractive from a business and relocation standpoint. I'd be interested to see what Austin and Nashville will be like after this, as those two are directly comparable to RDU.

Raleigh is as much a response to United at Dulles and Reagan as AA in CLT. ATL is about as close to CLT as RDU.

[TCLT]

5 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Raleigh is as much a response to United at Dulles and Reagan as AA in CLT. ATL is about as close to CLT as RDU.

RDU, like AUS and BOS, was a play at high margin nonstop business travel. Delta was far ahead of AA and United at maximizing the domestic networks at their core hubs and their core hubs are in far smaller, far less economically vibrant metros than the other two carriers. AA was on its way with the accomplished and planned growth in DFW, CLT, and DCA. United was starting to beef up its core hubs, especially DEN and ORD.  Delta simply didn't have the same growth opportunities left at its hubs so it was branching out to grab nonstop market share at nonhub, high growth, high demand markets. With the expectation that Delta (along with the others) emerge from this crisis far smaller, don't expect these focus city operations to return. They won't have the fleet size to make that worthwhile. The majors will pull back to their positions of strength at their hubs until economic activity and demand are back at pre-COVID levels.

[gman430]

Anybody know how much passenger traffic is down at CLT? Here at GSP it is down an astonishing 90% from a year ago.  

Edited March 30, 2020 by gman430

[xapostrophe]

5 hours ago, gman430 said:

Anybody know how much passenger traffic is down at CLT? Here at GSP it is down an astonishing 90% from a year ago.  

it has to be close to that.  i flew in yesterday, saw maybe 100 passengers...more than that i saw employees.  i fly out tomorrow to miami, as of now there's 140+ open seats.  that seems to be the new normal for now.
 

[InSouthPark]

18 hours ago, tozmervo said:

Uhg. I has to cancel an allegiant flight due to COVID, so I now have a voucher with them. Really hope I can use that eventually...

If you had an hour, you should have called in and asked for a refund.  Once I got an actual rep, she issued a refund immediately for my Allegiant flight to FLL next month.  Maybe she was just being generous or having a good day, but besides the wait, it was much easier than I expected.

[TCLT]

17 hours ago, gman430 said:

Anybody know how much passenger traffic is down at CLT? Here at GSP it is down an astonishing 90% from a year ago.  

 

12 hours ago, xapostrophe said:

it has to be close to that.  i flew in yesterday, saw maybe 100 passengers...more than that i saw employees.  i fly out tomorrow to miami, as of now there's 140+ open seats.  that seems to be the new normal for now.
 

Yeah it has to be at least that much at this point. Honestly probably more like 95% decrease.  Overall TSA screening numbers are down 50% for full month March and are down 90+% since March 25. On top of that the number of flights operating at CLT is about 50% of a normal schedule and more than 50% of what's left is being cancelled (scroll to bottom of page for cancel stats). Load factors on the flights that are operating are only 10-15%. 

[CLT2014]

9 minutes ago, TCLT said:

Yeah it has to be at least that much at this point. Honestly probably more like 95% decrease.  Overall TSA screening numbers are down 50% for full month March and are down 90+% since March 25. On top of that the number of flights operating at CLT is about 50% of a normal schedule and more than 50% of what's left is being cancelled (scroll to bottom of page for cancel stats). Load factors on the flights that are operating are only 10-15%. 

American's pricing methodology for flights between CLT and the West Coast is still "Fleece CLT based traveler for hundreds of dollars"

Planes are empty and AA still wants nearly $500 for a round trip between CLT and LAX, SFO, SEA, et.. in April. I guess they figure if you still want to fly.... you must REALLY want to fly and are captive. 

Phoenix is $512 in mid-April!

Edited March 31, 2020 by CLT2014

[U_R_]

6 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

American's pricing methodology for flights between CLT and the West Coast is still "Fleece CLT based traveler for hundreds of dollars"

Planes are empty and AA still wants nearly $500 for a round trip between CLT and LAX, SFO, SEA, et.. in April. I guess they figure if you still want to fly.... you must REALLY want to fly and are captive. 

 

 

 

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2019/02/24/why-american-airlines-dfw-fortress-hub-isnt-so-scary-anymore/

This article has a good infographic and it shows the estimated profit margin at each of American's hub. Charlotte of course has the highest margin. If think CLT gets even higher margin than Delta hubs in MSP,SLC, or DTW.

If you're so upset with prices, you can always take a trip down to ATL and connect on your favorite airline. XOXO Delta 

 

 

[TCLT]

I didn't see this posted, but all airport parking lots are closed except for the hourly deck which is now $10/day. Employee lots are closed too and they're using the daily deck. Another indication of just how huge the decline in passenger numbers is.

Airport Overlook is closed too 

Edited April 1, 2020 by TCLT

[stw52]

33 minutes ago, TCLT said:

I didn't see this posted, but all airport parking lots are closed except for the hourly deck which is now $10/day. Employee lots are closed too and they're using the daily deck. Another indication of just how huge the decline in passenger numbers is.

Airport Overlook is closed too 

Living in the take off flight path in south Charlotte, it is wayyyyy noticeably more quiet. Sad to say but a small silver lining to the current dire airline industry conditions. I can only imagine the locals uproar when flights resume saying it is loader than before.  

[CLT2014]

It would be nice if they could just shut down Concourse C to finish the renovations quickly during this quiet period and work 24/7 rather than just at night. AA can run all mainline flights that actually depart out of just Concourse A, B, and D for at least the next 45 days.

Edited April 1, 2020 by CLT2014

[TCLT]

3 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

It would be nice if they could just shut down Concourse C to finish the renovations quickly during this quiet period and work 24/7 rather than just at night. AA can run all mainline flights that actually depart out of just Concourse A, B, and D for at least the next 45 days.

Let's be real, they can probably run all mainline flights out of just B.

[BarrenLucidity]

On 3/30/2020 at 3:15 PM, gman430 said:

Anybody know how much passenger traffic is down at CLT? Here at GSP it is down an astonishing 90% from a year ago.  

I can tell you flight numbers are far lower. 

A month ago:

Today:

[Miesian Corners]

Will this ongoing horror delay/scale back scheduled construction, or do y'all think it will continue?

[KJHburg]

6 minutes ago, Miesian Corners said:

Will this ongoing horror delay/scale back scheduled construction, or do y'all think it will continue?

Just my layperson's opinion.  I think IF the peak nationally is in the next few weeks I think you will see a gradual adding of flights but it could take months to get back to full schedule.  I would expect the top 10 destinations first then gradually adding service as in the past.  I do think it could take all summer long as I believe some will still be hestitant to fly for even a few months afterwards. 

[Miesian Corners]

3 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Just my layperson's opinion.  I think IF the peak nationally is in the next few weeks I think you will see a gradual adding of flights but it could take months to get back to full schedule.  I would expect the top 10 destinations first then gradually adding service as in the past.  I do think it could take all summer long as I believe some will still be hestitant to fly for even a few months afterwards. 

But what of terminal construction? Will this impact the timetable or what actually gets built? Since airport revenues are going to plummet, will the lack of income curtail the lobby expansion or CBP remodel? Phase II of A?

[KJHburg]

11 minutes ago, Miesian Corners said:

But what of terminal construction? Will this impact the timetable or what actually gets built? Since airport revenues are going to plummet, will the lack of income curtail the lobby expansion or CBP remodel? Phase II of A?

anything under construction will continue I am sure future phases  your guess is as good as mine probably delayed obviously. 

[CLT2014]

I think the lobby expansion will happen, but A North will be paused to reevaluate the health of the airlines and demand after this for more gates. I'd say chances of that are way down and we may lose airlines like JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, et. for a bit until leisure demand returns.