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Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion


uptownliving

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1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

I guess we will have to see if they are retired or kept. 

I've mentioned this previously, but it is safe to assume the A332 fleet is done at AA. Regarding the new IFE system, the one that was completed was the prototype. The remaining 14 were to be accomplished later this spring but that is no longer happening. The entire fleet is sitting at Roswell, and barring a miraculous and improbable economic and air travel demand recovery in the next 12 months they won't be flying in AA colors again. The 777 and 787 fleet will provide way more than enough long haul capacity for what demand there's likely to be for the next two years, plus AA is still receiving new 787s and will have replaced the A332 fleet 1 for 1 within 18 months. Keeping the tiny A332 subfleet provides no benefit to AA in this environment.

The pilots will be retrained on whatever equipment they have enough seniority to get, and I'm sure many will end up on the 777 or 787. A significant amount of senior pilots have taken early out retirement packages so that will open up some widebody spaces for those remaining. I believe the FAs are all cross trained for any fleet but I could be wrong about that. But it will definitely be interesting to see what happens with the base. It'll depend on how much transatlantic flying we keep and what the mix of 777 vs 787 is. If it ends up being only a couple flights on each plane it probably won't make sense to have a base here. And the introduction of the 777 without a crew base probably means domestic repositions on hub to hub flights to get the plane here for MUC. If we're really lucky one of the transcons to LAX will get the 777 which would be sooooooooo much better than the A321. But it'll probably just come from DFW :/

 

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

I wonder how MUC will perform with the 772. It's a huge increase in the premium cabin (almost double the seats, 20 to 37).

To be honest, any plane is too much capacity at this point. But AA is going from 2 daily peak flights to MUC (from CLT and DFW) to just 1 for now. And if Lufthansa doesn't resume the extra capacity would be appropriate. Plus the 777 has the benefit of much greater cargo capacity than the 787 (or A332) which is particularly useful right now.

 

I'm also going to permit myself a tiny bit of optimism and say that it seems like CLT is going to be hurt less from this crisis relative to most of AA's other hubs. AA appears to be orienting their network around DFW and CLT even more so than before this so CLT might see flights and destinations recover faster than overall demand.

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I truly wonder who is actually traveling right now, and why.

There have been various reports and accompanying videos of fully-packed flights within the last week or so, and there appear to be a wide-range of demographic (young/old, business/tourist) and I am just fascinated, where are people going? I'm not shaming them in any way because quite frankly it isn't any of my business, but it is just interesting to see. 

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1 hour ago, stiluvclt said:

 Shoot KJH, I'll look at that Twitter feed every day! I appreciate your effort though but usually you get a whole study of photographs of the construction . Oh well.

I can only do outside photos I am  no longer allowed to enter the terminal with my ID right now.  I will try in the next week or so to drive over there when I am out and about. 

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1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

I truly wonder who is actually traveling right now, and why.

There have been various reports and accompanying videos of fully-packed flights within the last week or so, and there appear to be a wide-range of demographic (young/old, business/tourist) and I am just fascinated, where are people going? I'm not shaming them in any way because quite frankly it isn't any of my business, but it is just interesting to see. 

Im traveling to Boston and then back next week Mon-Wed.  Business related.

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5 minutes ago, Madison Parkitect said:

That makes  it sound like you did something to get banned from the airport :tw_lol:

No my volunteer job there is discontinued until further notice and my Level 1 ID is revoked.   only way I can get in is like a fare paying customer and unfortunately that is not planned for the foreseeable future.  I will fly again but probably not until Fall at the earliest.    Though when Supericas open in Atlanta I will be driving down south.  

Edited by KJHburg
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59 minutes ago, JetBlueCLT said:

Actually, the A321 NEO has been flying here quite frequently for the past month. I’ve seen it come in from the following cities: LAX/SAN/DEN/PHX/SEA/SLC.  

Completely ignorant question (which is from the perspective of the non-COVID airline world).

Is there any reason to expect to see CLT-Vancouver flight if things ever get back to prosperity? Better links to Cascadia would be a plus for Charlotte and it  seems like it might be a nice JAL connection point to Japan. Is it just too thin a route to burn a large aircraft on? (in normal times)

EDIT: Thanks for the nice explanation CLT2014! That was exactly what I wanted to know.

Edited by kermit
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Years ago, US tried PHL-YVR for one Summer season with an A319, and it never came back. I suppose one could make the argument that a seasonal A319 would probably work and be profitable on CLT-YVR but its a long and thin route that resources would probably be more profitable elsewhere. Canadian airports are extremely expensive to operate from.

As CLT2014 put it, other airlines offer excellent feed opportunities. YVR-US, like most Canada-US  markets, tend to be based mostly on the Canadian point of sale, who will almost always favor Air Canada and WestJet over the US3. US-YVR traffic from the US point of sale is inherently seasonal and mostly leisure focused (tied to the Alaskan cruise industry). 

Consider this: all flights from Vancouver to the US East Coast are seasonal with the exception of a single Air Canada flight to EWR and a Delta flight to ATL (which I think used to be seasonal and just recently became a year-round service). Cathay Pacific used to do JFK-YVR daily but recently just discontinued that service, and years ago AA did JFK-YVR to connect with the Canadian Airlines hub there (Canadian was a OneWorld member that AA had a stake in before they went bankrupt). Air Canada also used to do a Dulles-Vancouver flight that has been discontinued, in favor of a weekly United seasonal flight. Air Canada applied a couple of years back to get a slot exemption to fly DCA-Vancouver but ultimately wasn't approved. 

I know it has an oversized skyline, a beautiful transit system and looks/feels like a major metropolitan area, but Vancouver is quite small. Sure it is the third largest metro area in Canada but the population size of its metro area is actually smaller than Charlotte's.

Most Vancouverites I know are more than happy to drive or take a bus down to Seattle and simply fly out of there. I used to travel to Vancouver quite frequently, and outside of the Summer season, it is an expensive pain to get to, especially from CLT. 

It's a shame its so hard to get to, because it is my favorite city in North America and one that I would actually be very happy to move to. Wonderful climate (they have palm trees!), amazing quality of life, cool cultural attractions, close to skiing/mountains, and nice beaches. 

Edited by LKN704
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Isn't there some kind of significant tax penalty in flying into Canada that makes those flights far more expensive? I know native Torontans that always fly into Buffalo and drive, because even with a rental car it's cheaper. I would expect the same dynamic exists for Seattle and Vancouver.

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When I fly to Montréal I often go to Burlington VT. Much cheaper, though I cannot say if it is CDN fees. It is a domestic flight so none of the customs and immigration issues in the airport and no special paperwork to leave charlotte. The Burlington airport is quite nice as it is sized for the ski season when they have a huge influx of visitors. Visiting out of season (autumn) means the airport is nearly ours, and walk off the plane, step to the rental counter and drive away to MTL in two hours. The airline cost advantage is significant, though one must account for a car in MTL. Car crossings are quick and easy on off holiday times so advantage there also for Burlington. Plus Burlington is a great city and on the return we can spend two days enjoying the Vermont experience. I have been to Montréal more than 20 times so this is a good option for experienced, or adventurous travelers, likely. There is a bus from Burlington airport to Montréal also.

Edited by tarhoosier
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1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

Isn't there some kind of significant tax penalty in flying into Canada that makes those flights far more expensive? I know native Torontans that always fly into Buffalo and drive, because even with a rental car it's cheaper. I would expect the same dynamic exists for Seattle and Vancouver.

Canada has an insane amount of both passenger taxes/fees as well as heavy airport usage fees for operating carriers.  IIRC, I came across a statistic that said that Toronto Pearson was the most expensive airport in the world to land a plane, which in turn will ultimately jack up passenger fares.  Domestically, US carriers tend to only charge a 9/11 Security Fee and a Passenger Facility Charge. 

Flying between the US and Canada, you not only get the US 9/11 Security Fee and Passenger Facility Charge, you get a Canadian GST tax, US Preclearance CBP fees, a Harmonized Canadian sales tax, a Canadian Security Fee, and a Canadian Airport Improvement Fee, on top of the higher fare because of the higher operating costs found at Canadian airports. 

A quick check on a flight from Toronto to Orlando on Air Canada Rouge (Air Canada's LCC arm) in late October was $386 USD round trip.  WestJet was $362. A nonstop flight from Buffalo on Southwest was $209. That's a whopping $708 difference for a family of 4. Considering that many Canadians who live in Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto have NEXUS, driving across the border is a breeze. Plus, Buffalo's airport is only a 1h45m drive from Downtown Toronto. If you're traveling as a family, it's a no brainer. Niagara Falls Airport (home to Allegiant and Spirit) is even closer, and has flights for $120 roundtrip in late October ($480 for a family of four), for a crazy $1,064 difference than Air Canada.

Hell, even when I lived in Albany there would be tons of Quebeckers on our Southwest flights, even though Albany is a 2h30m drive from the Quebec border. Prices are that crazy, and if you have a large family, it really adds up.

Edited by LKN704
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I went to see some friends on Vancouver Island in Victoria BC and flew to Seattle and drove and took the ferry to the island and it was much cheaper! 

With flights to Asia I like flying via Dallas on American or from a California airport which has plenty of connections and flights.  

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2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I went to see some friends on Vancouver Island in Victoria BC and flew to Seattle and drove and took the ferry to the island and it was much cheaper! 

With flights to Asia I like flying via Dallas on American or from a California airport which has plenty of connections and flights.  

years ago when I was a kid my family did the Alaska cruise thing.  we flew in to SEA and drove to YVR.  On the return we flew out of YVR, connected in LAX to PHL then to PIT where I lived at the time.  It was insane and m Dad said he'd never do it again.

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I am from Vancouver, and have been dreaming of a direct from here for years. To visit family, I have found that the cheapest/ quickest route is flying to Seattle and driving up. A beautiful drive and eliminates a layover.

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I flew to Vancouver last summer on United, connecting through Chicago. The layover was about 90 minutes which was welcome for some walking and bathroom and sustenance mid-journey and to reduce the long period in the air. With the time change we still arrived mid afternoon with time for a walk and then dinner and exploration the same day. We visited friends in Seattle prior to return and the return was one-way Seattle to Charlotte nonstop. QuickBus from Vancouver to Seattle, or SickBus as my wife called it as there were several people coughing and sneezing onboard. We survived.

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Spirit and JetBlue have received approval from the Department of Transportation to cancel all flights to Charlotte through September 30. One of the requirements of the CARES Act was airlines receiving stimulus money had to maintain service on at least one flight 5 days per week to each destination in their route network. An petition process was put in place to request canceling a destination. 

"Spirit Airlines and JetBlue will not be obligated to provide service at certain large hubs or focus city airports that have abundant service by large air carriers using the airports to provide connecting services," the DOT said in a statement on the rulings.

JetBlue received approval to cancel all flights to: Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas/Fort Worth, Denver, Detroit, Houston, Las Vegas, Minneapolis, Nashville, Philadelphia, Phoenix, Portland, San Diego, Seattle, and Tampa in addition to Charlotte.

Spirits received approval to cancel all flights to: Denver, Minneapolis, Phoenix, Portland, and Seattle in addition to Charlotte. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/05/05/dot-allows-spirit-airlines-jetblue-to-stop-flying.html

Edited by CLT2014
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Bye-bye 332s, they won't come back. By 2022, AA would have taken delivery of more 787s.

On a pessimistic note, I don't think this bodes well for our TATL routes, as not every TATL flight from CLT could realistically take the 772. I was envisioning something like LHR x2, MUC, FRA, CDG, MAD, and possibly DUB next summer on a mix of 772 and 332s but that seems unlikely. 

I am going to seriously miss the A330s, I first flew on one in 2007 to LGW. That was my return flight after my first ever trip to the USA, I flew into RDU on an American 772 so going to be weird to see them here for me. 

Edited by CLT704
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