Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[SydneyCarton]

2 hours ago, jordan704 said:

8/13

The Queen’s Crown is fantastic.  

[LKN704]

Looks like AA added a 772 rotation onto CLT-MIA next month. 

[wadesboro2]

Mhm v BBC cI pm m NC GHIN c p


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[HopHead]

15 minutes ago, wadesboro2 said:

Mhm v BBC cI pm m NC GHIN c p


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What does this mean in English??

[videtur quam contuor]

Before Ben Douglas we had a grass field for aircraft. Ben knew that any proper city needed a true airport with proper runways and the rest of the elements of operations and safety. The WPA, an infrastructure program during the depression, was integral in the airport project. The family business, Douglas Furs was near the corner of Elizabeth and Independence for many years. Also with locations in Belk stores. 

Here is a living interview with him:

https://island1.uncc.edu/islandora/object/uncc%3A1337

[videtur quam contuor]

My first airplane flight:

I was nine years old. My parents took me to Evansville Indiana from our home in Indianapolis. We visited my mother's family there. My sister was 18 and stayed at home. They all cooked up this event secretly for me. As we left Evansville for the 165 mile drive home we turned into the E'ville airport and I asked what was happening. "You are flying home and your sister will meet you at the Indianapolis airport". Quite the surprise. It was Lake Central Airlines. They connected all around the Great Lakes. What ever plane it was it sat on a very small wheel at the rear so the fuselage was canted about 30 degrees upward. There was a three step stool used for boarding just ahead of the tail. I had to pull myself up the seat rows, hand over hand because of the angle of the aisle. There were not many passengers. I had a window seat, perhaps all seats were window seats. There was a stewardess and she was comforting and friendly. The plane was not a pressurized cabin, a term I knew nothing of at the time. It flew low enough to see everything on the ground. I could see the houses and barns of the countryside. It was in February so became dark shortly after takeoff. I recall looking out the window and seeing the car headlights on the roads below us, turning, turning, then driving straight then turning. We passed them all. After some time the darkness relaxed me. Then I looked down and in the brightness of the wing lights I could see grass. Then there was a thump and we were on the ground. We rolled to a stop on the grass. The plane was again in the canted position. I could hear whumps and thumps below me and asked the stewardess what was happening. She said we were in Terre Haute and it was a mail stop. They were loading mail bags, no passengers. Another takeoff and then my sister met me at the Indianapolis airport and we drove home and mom and dad came later.

My father had been in an airplane in the early 20's when air shows came to town. My mother had never flown before. My sister later went to nursing school and after some years of professional life joined the Air Force Nursing Service and flew quite a bit.

I am fond of this story but it also shows that Ben Douglas did not want Charlotte to be like Terre Haute.

[DMann]

great story!

 

[csweet]

17 hours ago, LKN704 said:

Looks like AA added a 772 rotation onto CLT-MIA next month. 

It's for the cargo ops to MUC.

[videtur quam contuor]

For those without memory of my time or interest in historic philately, in the 1950's  mail went by truck if destination and size of package allowed, otherwise by train. Surface transportation, in other words. Air mail was for important, time sensitive messages and parcels. A first class stamp was 4¢ and air mail was 7¢. Not so much, you say? A sheet of ten 4's was 40¢ and airmail 70¢. That 30¢ difference was enough for a pack or two of cigarettes or several cherry cokes at the drugstore soda fountain. Such things today cost several dollars, to give a perspective on the savings one could obtain using surface mail rather than air. Lake Central Airlines made real money by stopping at smaller airfields and air strips for mail by contract with the PO.

Many trains had railway postal cars, a post office on rails for sorting, cancelling and collecting and distributing mail along the line and between stations. In 1967 the PO ended all mail-by-rail and moved mail by air or truck exclusively. Many towns lost their rail connections because of this alone.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_post_office

All within my memory.

[videtur quam contuor]

Checking Lake Central Airlines on Wiki indicates it was started and centered in Indianapolis and flew DC-3, with the small tail wheel and no cabin pressurization. That is certainly what I flew on my first trip.

Everyone has a first trip story. Or worst trip story. I will stick to first trip.

[JorgiPorgi]

From today. The crown sign and testing the lights on the signage this evening. 

[CltConcord]

Every week there are new reports about the imminent bankruptcy threat. Behind closed doors CLT airport authority is already preparing for this scenario which would -obviously- have a major impact on the current CLT airport business model.

https://www.axios.com/american-airlines-short-sellers-bankruptcy-9fa0c192-3e96-45f1-bacc-4b49b1008173.html

Reading here that AA will be operating cargo only ops to Europe gives me chills, considering they will be flying 777  50% filled with air. I wonder if profitability calculation is part of American's business practice - looking at the debt ratio, doesn't seem to be one of their strengths...
But hey, Middle East carriers also operate without making money, so why not I guess.

[navigator319]

Every week there are new reports about the imminent bankruptcy threat. Behind closed doors CLT airport authority is already preparing for this scenario which would -obviously- have a major impact on the current CLT airport business model.
https://www.axios.com/american-airlines-short-sellers-bankruptcy-9fa0c192-3e96-45f1-bacc-4b49b1008173.html

Reading here that AA will be operating cargo only ops to Europe gives me chills, considering they will be flying 777  50% filled with air. I wonder if profitability calculation is part of American's business practice - looking at the debt ratio, doesn't seem to be one of their strengths...
But hey, Middle East carriers also operate without making money, so why not I guess.

I think that’s a dramatic overstatement. A bankruptcy would have little practical affect. It’s happened 3x in the last 25 years to the main occupier of CLT. AA is not going away and a bankruptcy might actually be beneficial to not only the airport, but the quality of product that flies through CLT 2-5 years from now. The upside far outweighs any risk which is very small anyway.

[LKN704]

Why does AA operating cargo flights on CLT-MUC give you chills? There is significant cargo demand to/from Bavaria from the Carolinas and the flights will more than likely turn a profit. CLT cannot accept international arrivals at this stage from Europe per CBP regulations hence the flights are operating as cargo only.

AA can file for Chapter 11 tomorrow, restructure, and then file for Chapter 11 in 2022 and it would probably have little if any impact on CLT operations. 

Everyone is acting all doom and gloom regarding AA, especially since they put out a list of cities they will temporarily suspend service to. DL did that months ago and yet no one batted an eye. Look at the list of cities. Almost all of them are cities where AA is the sole airline carrier. AA is essentially making a political statement to attempt to get the CARES act extended. 

[KJHburg]

I can speak to Greenville NC as I have many friends there having went to ECU.  They all drive to RDU to fly now as there are more options and with the highways improved so much it is a freeway from Greenville to RDU.    Not as familiar with Florence but having Myrtle Beach with decent service and Columbia both about 1 hour away it is still accessible. 

[LKN704]

It's interesting because a good number of cities that AA has announced they are dropping (note that they have not announced they are permenantly removing these cities from the system, but only for the month of October), such as PGV/HVN/SWO/HTS are all college towns, home to ECU, Yale, OSU, and Marshall, respectively. Dubuque has a good number of universities as well. With classes online right now I am sure travel is way down. 

[xapostrophe]

12 hours ago, LKN704 said:

It's interesting because a good number of cities that AA has announced they are dropping (note that they have not announced they are permenantly removing these cities from the system, but only for the month of October), such as PGV/HVN/SWO/HTS are all college towns, home to ECU, Yale, OSU, and Marshall, respectively. Dubuque has a good number of universities as well. With classes online right now I am sure travel is way down. 

Quick load check confirms this.

As far as cargo only operations, we are surprisingly making money on these flights with only cargo.   We are even carrying some in the cabin.  It is crazy that we have come to this point, but if there is a way to make $$ with a 777 that would be parked if not for the cargo then great.

As far as debt, I am not sure if people realize how much of the debt we have came in the last 6 months alone.  Trying to stay actually in business.  Scary times.  For what its worth I am an FO here who will be furloughed Oct. 1 if CARES is not extended.  

[LKN704]

23 minutes ago, xapostrophe said:

Quick load check confirms this.

As far as cargo only operations, we are surprisingly making money on these flights with only cargo.   We are even carrying some in the cabin.  It is crazy that we have come to this point, but if there is a way to make $$ with a 777 that would be parked if not for the cargo then great.

As far as debt, I am not sure if people realize how much of the debt we have came in the last 6 months alone.  Trying to stay actually in business.  Scary times.  For what its worth I am an FO here who will be furloughed Oct. 1 if CARES is not extended.  

Sorry to hear about the furlough. 

Good to hear about the cargo ops. I am confused though, I thought the FAA issued an order that said that cargo couldn't be carried in the cabin for fire suppression reasons. Were airlines able to get that waived?

[xapostrophe]

On 8/22/2020 at 9:48 AM, LKN704 said:

Sorry to hear about the furlough. 

Good to hear about the cargo ops. I am confused though, I thought the FAA issued an order that said that cargo couldn't be carried in the cabin for fire suppression reasons. Were airlines able to get that waived?

Some kind of waiver. Not sure the details or limitations.

[KJHburg]

Good news the airport is slowly rebuilding in flights and passenger growth.  Still way off but on the way up.  I still think CLT is rebounding much faster than most US airports which is good the region. 

From Biz Journal 

""Charlotte Douglas International Airport recorded another uptick in passenger traffic in July amid an ongoing pandemic that's put a crunch on flight demand. Nearly 2 million passengers — 1.99 million, to be exact — traveled through the airport last month, according to CLT's latest activity report released on Tuesday.  July marks another month in which passenger counts at Charlotte Douglas have improved. In June, for instance, 1.57 million people passed through the airport.  But traffic remains about half of what it was a year ago. In July 2019, there were 4.4 million passengers at CLT during what's typically a busy travel period in the summer.  As passenger counts increased at CLT, so did the average number of flights. Charlotte Douglas averaged 468 daily flights in July, up from 355 in the previous month. But that number was well off the 760 average in July 2019.""

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/08/26/passenger-traffic-improves-at-charlotte-airport.html

[TCLT]

Good news the airport is slowly rebuilding in flights and passenger growth.  Still way off but on the way up.  I still think CLT is rebounding much faster than most US airports which is good the region. 
From Biz Journal 
""Charlotte Douglas International Airport recorded another uptick in passenger traffic in July amid an ongoing pandemic that's put a crunch on flight demand. Nearly 2 million passengers — 1.99 million, to be exact — traveled through the airport last month, according to CLT's latest activity report released on Tuesday.  July marks another month in which passenger counts at Charlotte Douglas have improved. In June, for instance, 1.57 million people passed through the airport.  But traffic remains about half of what it was a year ago. In July 2019, there were 4.4 million passengers at CLT during what's typically a busy travel period in the summer.  As passenger counts increased at CLT, so did the average number of flights. Charlotte Douglas averaged 468 daily flights in July, up from 355 in the previous month. But that number was well off the 760 average in July 2019.""
https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/08/26/passenger-traffic-improves-at-charlotte-airport.html

Note that AA is drastically reducing the flying schedule beginning in September. Leisure demand is dropping off again now that summer is over and business travel is still mostly nonexistent. So it’s unlikely we’ll see any further increases for several months. CLT is still going to be a focal point for AA though and should be the primary hub for connections up and down the east coast and for the southeast so the airport will hopefully stay fairly busy. We’re definitely in better shape than nearly any other hubs.

[InTheYear2000]

2 hours ago, TCLT said:

Note that AA is drastically reducing the flying schedule beginning in September. Leisure demand is dropping off again now that summer is over and business travel is still mostly nonexistent. So it’s unlikely we’ll see any further increases for several months. CLT is still going to be a focal point for AA though and should be the primary hub for connections up and down the east coast and for the southeast so the airport will hopefully stay fairly busy. We’re definitely in better shape than nearly any other hubs.

Devil Advocate: Virtual school and Work from home could remove the seasonality of leisure travel. Maybe?

[CLT2014]

39 minutes ago, InTheYear2000 said:

Devil Advocate: Virtual school and Work from home could remove the seasonality of leisure travel. Maybe?

Booking are showing that isn't happening. People might be driving to their beach house or mountain house to work from there, but they aren't spending money on flights and hotels to spend their vacation in the Rocky Mountains sitting in a hotel room working on VPN. In addition, even a 10% boost in leisure travel this fall over last year wouldn't make up for the 80% drop occurring for business travel. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

I have a booking of a family in my beach condo and their kids are virtually learning so there was lots of questions about my internet service.  of course they are driving from Ohio.

I do believe some families will take advantage of travel in off peak as long as they have internet (no off the grid vacations now)  now whether they fly or not not sure. 

[kermit]

I am certainly no expert, but the only positives I have heard about the N Charleston Boeing 787 plant are related to its low costs. To my uninformed ear it seems like construction there is incredibly sloppy and has been since it opened. (I do know Boeing’s issues extend well beyond a single plant).

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/boeing-pulls-eight-787s-from-service-over-structural-issue/

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by kermit