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Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion


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6 hours ago, CltFlyer said:

I read a article back when they first announced the route.  The article stated that their business model is aimed at areas where they have potential to convert demand that is currently utilizing bus trips to Mexico.  By giving them an affordable option that is on a Mexican carrier (catering to the Spanish language, etc..), they are able to grow demand.  

They are going on 3 years of a service at CLT.  They have continued to fend off a pesky AA (who has resorted to nearly matching Volaris' schedule).  AA's presence has probably slightly diminished the potential to grow the route, but aside for some brief periods, they have maintained 2 weekly flights.  

The 3rd weekly flight (and added capacity across the board) is probably more indicative of the fact that Volaris is unsure of how long the aforementioned down grade will last,  given that the downgrade to category 2 does prohibit them from adding frequency going forward.  I would like to believe, however, that the added frequency does show that they see potential for more consistent increased frequencies to CLT going forward.  

For what it's worth, early bookings (going off the seat map on the Volaris website) for the month's of June and July look promising.

Given the explosion of growth in NC of the Hispanic (specifically Mexican) population, frankly, I'm surprised that Aeromexico hasn't started service from NC (RDU or CLT) to MEX.

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From today. The crown sign and testing the lights on the signage this evening. 

321-Neo going to LAX                   777-200 on D-11 I'll grab some terminal entrance pictures also.  Hope I did this right. 

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8 hours ago, Phillydog said:

Given the explosion of growth in NC of the Hispanic (specifically Mexican) population, frankly, I'm surprised that Aeromexico hasn't started service from NC (RDU or CLT) to MEX.

Outside of Delta hubs and large metro areas, Aeromexico actually struggles in the US market. Over the years, they have dropped a number of high profile destinations, such as Boston,  San Jose, Portland, and Phoenix. They couldn't even make MEX-IAD work. 

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On 5/27/2021 at 11:42 PM, Phillydog said:

Given the explosion of growth in NC of the Hispanic (specifically Mexican) population, frankly, I'm surprised that Aeromexico hasn't started service from NC (RDU or CLT) to MEX.

Going off of what LKN704 said.   Traditionally, Mexican VFR demand is very low yielding.  Meaning, that the price they had to market the flights at to fill the planes does not allow for large profit margins.  This means, it is easier for a low cost carrier like Volaris to make a route work than more of a business oriented carrier like Aeromexico.  Also, from a demand perspective, many of the passengers who would take a route like CLT-GDL, will only use the route once or a twice year.  Therefore, the target population required to support a flight would need to be larger than one you would need for a typical route.  

The Volaris flight at 2 weekly, likely covers most of the demand in the Carolina's for a non stop flight.  As the route continues to develop, however, I would not be surprised to see it increase in frequency on a more consistent basis.   Given, that Atlanta-Guadalajara is covered by both Delta and Aeromexico (during good times), I'm sure this made Charlotte more of an attractive option for Volaris as a southeastern destination. 

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I know some of you have connections to American: can you please advise them that, under no circumstance or search, is EWR to JFK a realistic or acceptable suggestion for a connection. 

Edit: related: is CLT - FCO still not restarted? 

Edited by tozmervo
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27 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

I know some of you have connections to American: can you please advise them that, under no circumstance or search, is EWR to JFK a realistic or acceptable suggestion for a connection. 

Edit: related: is CLT - FCO still not restarted? 

For some reason AA has always lumped NYC area airports together in their reservation system in regards to flight connections. I can't figure out the exact reason but I would guess it's because AA effectively has a split hub system in the city (LGA for domestic, JFK for international) versus DL has a more balanced network from JFK. They can still market say CAK-NYC-DEL as one stop even though the Akron flight arrives into LGA and the Delhi flight departs out of JFK. On paper it looks like a more attractive routing than CAK-PHL-JFK-DEL. 

AA no longer operates CLT-FCO. It was one of the several routes that AA announced they would no longer operate, including CLT-CDG/BCN.

2045290535_Image6-2-21at00_00.thumb.jpg.d31690a9bad48fb24a2eb90f4eb336ce.jpg

Sampling of discontinued AA long-haul routes.

Edited by LKN704
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40 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

AA no longer operates CLT-FCO. It was one of the several routes that AA announced they would no longer operate, including CLT-CDG/BCN.

Sampling of discontinued AA long-haul routes.

Wait, discontinued permanently? Even CDG?? 

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1 hour ago, tozmervo said:

 

Wait, discontinued permanently? Even CDG?? 

They announced them as suspended/canceled.  Basically, there isn't a current plan for their return.  I would definitely expect to see at lest CDG and FCO back at some point, however, be it 3 or 5 years down the road.

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7 hours ago, tozmervo said:

 

Wait, discontinued permanently? Even CDG?? 

This is what the press release said:

American will exit several routes, including three trans-Atlantic routes from both Charlotte Douglas International Airport (CLT) and Philadelphia International Airport (PHL). The company will also exit five underperforming routes from Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) to destinations in Asia and South America, concentrating on the hub’s domestic strength.

As American resets its international network for future growth, Dallas Fort Worth International Airport (DFW) will be the airline’s major trans-Pacific hub while Miami International Airport (MIA) will continue to be the preeminent hub for flights to the Caribbean and Latin America. Once government restrictions on trans-Atlantic flying subside, PHL will continue to be American’s primary hub for service to Europe.

Several on those routes on that list, like LAX-China, HKG, and EZE, are never coming back. Others, like CLT-CDG, will likely come back within the next several years as demand recovers. CLT-CDG is a good candidate for the A321XLR. 

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2 hours ago, LKN704 said:

This is what the press release said:

American will exit several routes, including three trans-Atlantic routes from both Charlotte Douglas International Airport (CLT) and Philadelphia International Airport (PHL). The company will also exit five underperforming routes from Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) to destinations in Asia and South America, concentrating on the hub’s domestic strength.

As American resets its international network for future growth, Dallas Fort Worth International Airport (DFW) will be the airline’s major trans-Pacific hub while Miami International Airport (MIA) will continue to be the preeminent hub for flights to the Caribbean and Latin America. Once government restrictions on trans-Atlantic flying subside, PHL will continue to be American’s primary hub for service to Europe.

Several on those routes on that list, like LAX-China, HKG, and EZE, are never coming back. Others, like CLT-CDG, will likely come back within the next several years as demand recovers. CLT-CDG is a good candidate for the A321XLR. 

So which routes from CLT to Europe will operate this summer? And when will they begin service?...

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1 hour ago, UrbanCharlotte said:

So which routes from CLT to Europe will operate this summer? And when will they begin service?...

CLT-LHR is currently operating. 
 

Madrid, Frankfurt, and Dublin are tentatively scheduled to resume 17 August. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Frankfurt pushed back seeing how the flight is geared more towards corporate traffic.  
 

It looks like Lufthansa plans to resume MUC on 3 July but I wouldn’t be surprised to see that pushed back. AA plans to resume MUC on 30 October. 

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Non international route related.  Despite the reduction if business travel that will a long period of time to recover.  I wonder if the economic increases from Bay Area companies in the Charlotte area (Credit Karma, and Wells Fargo, etc...)  could lead to a United Airlines flight to SFO.  I'd assume that the companies based in the bay area would prefer to use United Airlines to American Airlines if possible.  

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Just flew into CLT from IAD and a couple of notes:

1) The vast majority of the bags into CLT from the IAD flight were from the Qatar DOH-IAD flight and seemed to be from the Indian subcontinent. 
 

2) Concourse E seemed relatively quiet for some reason. IAD was bursting at the seems. It seems American travel to Europe is in full swing as I saw countless people boarding Lufthansa/Air France/Austrian flights with those embarrassing passport wallet necklaces that Americans love to wear which made me think they were going on tour. 

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Funny, I just flew in from LGA and Concourse B was maybe even busier than pre- COVID.  The A321 was 100% full.

 

That said, LGA was pretty desolate...but...portions of the new Terminal B and C is now being used, and some gates are now operational (but weirdly the previous terminal is still stitching all the new portions together, for now at least)

It was pretty amazing...on par with Bangkok as far as design....that said, $8B can buy nice things.

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Chase just announced that it will be building a network of airport lounges and Capital One did the same a few months ago. Anybody care to speculate on the odds of CLT getting one of these?

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18 hours ago, Vitamin_N said:

Chase just announced that it will be building a network of airport lounges and Capital One did the same a few months ago. Anybody care to speculate on the odds of CLT getting one of these?

The renderings for the new The Club lounges at CLT and SFO are very different from the other locations (much nicer, IMO), so I wonder if we are getting one here?  I reached out to both CLT the lounge developer/operator a few weeks ago to see where and when the The Club would be opening.  The former said they couldn’t comment, and I never heard back from the later.

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Talking with a long time friend on the phone and he took his wife and two young children to Los Angeles from home in Paducah Kentucky. Drove to Nashville for the flight. WHAAAT I thought. Checked Kayak schedules and google maps and he was right that the ~140 mile drive one way was marginally worth it for fare savings, and time of travel nonstop from Nashville plus drive was near the same as flying from Paducah to O'Hare and then west. Nothing more to add but to say we are so fortunate to have this airport and the region in which it is located has people who are making these calculations similar to that of my friend. 

How far away from CLT would someone live to make the commute for a flight worth their time and $$? 140 miles? More? In other words the catchment area for CLT.

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People are willing to drive significant distances to fly nonstop.

I flew into/out of Charlotte last week for a wedding in Asheville. Granted I had stayed with family before and after but the majority of people who were attending the wedding seemed to use CLT. 

Growing up in Albany we would always drive to JFK/EWR/BOS if we were going overseas or to the West Coast. All three were less than 3 hours away, and EWR was only 2h15m. Once you factor in the time to fly to a hub and layover time, driving to one of the above airports was always faster and usually cheaper. 

Anyways, there again seemed to be significant construction going on at what will be A North Phase II. It’s odd because the project I thought was officially paused and the city hasn’t put out an official statement saying construction has begun, which I would think they would considering they are basically constructing a whole new terminal. I’m actually flying back this weekend for an event so I’ll see if I can get some pictures. 

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4 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

How far away from CLT would someone live to make the commute for a flight worth their time and $$? 140 miles? More? In other words the catchment area for CLT.

The reverse also happens - driving away from CLT to save $$ and still fly American for miles accrual reasons. You can save a couple of hundred per ticket in some cases, by driving to Greenville-Spartanburg or Greensboro. For example, looking at August flights, nonstop to St Lucia is $200/ticket cheaper if you drive to GSP and connect through CLT ($647 vs $843 nonstop from CLT - with a return in both cases through MIA). Schedule-permitting I would absolutely do this for a party of 2+ to fund a hotel upgrade.  

One of the airline pricing downsides of living in a single airline hub city. 

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5 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

Talking with a long time friend on the phone and he took his wife and two young children to Los Angeles from home in Paducah Kentucky. Drove to Nashville for the flight. WHAAAT I thought. Checked Kayak schedules and google maps and he was right that the ~140 mile drive one way was marginally worth it for fare savings, and time of travel nonstop from Nashville plus drive was near the same as flying from Paducah to O'Hare and then west. Nothing more to add but to say we are so fortunate to have this airport and the region in which it is located has people who are making these calculations similar to that of my friend. 

How far away from CLT would someone live to make the commute for a flight worth their time and $$? 140 miles? More? In other words the catchment area for CLT.

I have family in Madisonville/Henderson KY and we always fly BNA even with Evansville at our doorstep. All freeway, very easy and fast to get to.  Straight up the Pennyrile.

Edited by DownEast
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