Jump to content

Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

Hmm. 

I can't remember if there is a revenue guarantee or corporate contract tied to this route. I remember years ago GSK had a contract with AA that guaranteed a certain number of purchased Business class seats per flight regardless of whether the seats ended up being filled by GSK staff. Unsure if the agreement is still in place today, but that agreement IIRC made the RDU-LHR segment one of the most profitable routes in the AA system. 

If GSK (or any other company) has a contract with AA for RDU-LHR, it probably won't return until companies commit to resuming transatlantic business travel. Could be later this year...might not be until 2022 when businesses reset their corporate travel expense. 

I think I remember reading that there is no longer a revenue guarantee tied to the route.  I believe that from a business class prospective pre-covid.  Business O&D from RDU to LHR is stronger than that of CLT to LHR.  

I doubt they would bring this route back in the winter season (traditionally a very weak travel demand season for Europe) unless business demand rapidly improves.  If I had to guess,  I'd say RDU-LHR will resume in Spring/Summer 2022.

Edited by CltFlyer
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 8.9k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I was up taking pictures at the hourly deck, which has a great vantage point of the terminal expansion!  

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From today. The crown sign and testing the lights on the signage this evening. 

Posted Images

9 hours ago, LKN704 said:

It would be nice to land a mid-tier to upmarket hotel (Marriott, Hilton, Westin, Hyatt, or Hyatt Regency etc) directly on airport property. Old planning documents called for a hotel to be built where the old control tower sits. 

CLT is probably the busiest airport in the US without an on-site hotel. 

Yea, I second this as well... Working in IT Consulting for years with a geographically dispersed team, one thing we often did was have team or sometimes organizational meetings in cities with an onsite airport hotel. It was easy to fly into a city, walk off your plane and head over to hotel that was right there. And this is a very common practice for many different companies because it was easy. Didn't have to worry about people getting rental cars or an Uber to ride into a city. Restaurants are usually pretty good at a Hyatt Regency, full service Marriott, etc. so you didn't have to go offsite for meals either. And then there is always the target audience of people that miss their flights due to weather, delays, etc. so it's an easy place for them to stay or the flight crew too. Hopefully this comes to fruition with the news that CLT is ready to develop/sell the land. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The language used in this statement is so biased; property purchased for "noise abatement". The noise is the same or louder. The complaints are abated since the property owners have sold and moved to another, quieter location.

Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

The language used in this statement is so biased; property purchased for "noise abatement". The noise is the same or louder. The complaints are abated since the property owners have sold and moved to another, quieter location.

“If a tree falls in an airport…”

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not News Related, but I was digging through google today and found some interesting articles on the history of international flag carriers at CLT.  

For those who didn't know.  In the 1990-1992 time frame Lufthansa flew a 747-200 Frankfurt-Charlotte-Houston-Charlotte-Frankfurt a video of which can be found on Youtube.

 

 

These flights were part of an incentive to attract and grow foreign flag carriers in US markets.

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1990/06/19/Lufthansa-to-fly-between-Frankfurt-and-Charlotte-NC/2847645768000/

These flights were ultimately doomed by pricing differences between West Germany and the United.  With the West German's requiring tariffs and the US having a more liberal pricing policy.  

This led to US Air starting Frankfurt flights with an intro fare of an incredibly low (even for the time) $298 RT.  Originally contingent on LH losing its contract (that had to be continually extended) to serve Charlotte, US Air eventually decided to fly the flights along side Lufthansa.  I can't find an exact end date, but I believe the Lufthansa flights ended sometime in 1992.  

https://www.joc.com/sen-helms-phone-call-saved-charlotte-franfurt-air-link_19920224.html

https://www.goupstate.com/article/NC/19910731/News/605196142/SJ

It's interesting to read that Jerry Orr and CLT were also in talks with Alitalia and Swissair at various points attempting to attract service to Rome and Zurich respectively.

************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

CLT was only without an European flag carrier for less than 2 years how ever.  As the British Airways and US Air Alliance kicked off in 1993 (which Charlotte beginning in January 1994.

 

 

An interesting part of the alliance/agreement was that flights were originally flown in US Air leased 767-200s.  They were painted in British Airways colors and flown by US Air crews in British Airways uniforms.  

https://pointmetotheplane.boardingarea.com/us-airways-british-airways-global-alliance-back-to-the-future/

Eventually these flights transitioned to proper British Airways 777-200s to London Gatwick.  In 2001 BA consolidated their Baltimore and Charlotte flights to one flight with to London Heathrow (via Baltimore) with a 767-300ER  before ending the Charlotte leg altogether in October 2002.  The discontinuation was reportedly related to the economic downturn caused by 9/11.  

I don't like posting links from other message boards, but these are the best factual links I can find in regards to the BA flights being terminated.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=111871  (Consolidation of CLT and BWI flights)

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=169679  (Termination altogether)

Here's a more legitimate link.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/BA-to-halt-Charlotte-London-service-Oct-27

*****************************************************************************************************************************************************

 

This brings us to modern day.  Once again Charlotte was not for long without a foreign carrier.  In March 2004,  Lufthansa launched flights from Charlotte to Munich.  Originally with the help of US Airways and Star Alliance.  The Lufthansa flight now sustains it self quite well.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2003/12/08/daily30.html

Intro fares for these flights were as low as $199!

No need to go in depth here as Lufthansa  to MUC is fairly well covered on this board presently.

*********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Here's another interesting article I found from 1994 about CLT, RDU, and international flights from each.

https://greensboro.com/charlotte-and-raleigh-increase-their-number-of-international-flights/article_d4d0df35-9d65-5c57-9b4c-1427c6f03171.html

 

I understand that most of the above information is likely already known by most of aviation enthusiasts on this board (my-self included), but I  thought it would be neat to have it all on the same page with links.  I also thought it might be an  interesting read for those not as enthusiastic/knowledgeable with aviation.  Personally, I was unaware of all of the politics behind the original Lufthansa flights and found that to be really interesting.

 

Enjoy!!

 

*all credit for the Youtube Videos goes to Youtuber SDMullis.  He has created these as well as many many other aviation related videos (including some classic CLT themed ones).  For those interested I would recommend his trip report videos of Charlotte- Munich and return on LH in November/December 2019.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I flew from CLT to Munich during the first month of them flying here for $200 RT and had a blast in southern Germany.  The German accented reservation agent said everyone was booking CLT to MUC she would dream of it in her sleep! 

I remember all those flights and remember the talk of Alitalia and Jerry Orr was trying everything to get them to come here. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Miesian Corners said:

I hope that never happens (naming). He made a deal with the devil during the General Assembly's attempt at stealing the airport from the City of Charlotte (his employer). 

What's the backstory behind this?

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

According to the Porter Airlines booking engine they will start CLT-YTZ (Toronto Island Airport) service on September 17. YTZ only allows prop aircraft (due to NIMBY’s) so the flights will be on  Dash-8’s. [EDIT: nope, my bad. The flights are  JetBlue to Boston and change there for YTZ -- see following post]

https://www.flyporter.com/en-ca/about-porter/porter-and-embraer

The flights will longer than AA or AC flights, but the airport is a very short tunnel-walk (or ferry ride) into central Toronto at the foot of Bathurst st, the tram stop is one block from the tunnel/ferry. It is one of the most relaxing airport experiences I have had. If pricing is in the same ballpark as AA this will be my first choice route to Toronto. However, there was no pre-clearance at YTZ when I last flew from there (but that was 2016 I think) so I guess we will soon see prop aircraft on concourse D.

The press page discusses Porter’s acquisition of some Ebraer jets which they will use from Pearson, Ottawa, Halifax and Montreal.

EDIT: Damn, I am super disappointed. The Dash-8s could make it to Charlotte, they did / do have Myrtle Beach and Charleston flights using them (but, yea. I am sure there are a ton more Torontonians wanting to go to Myrtle than to Charlotte).

Edited by kermit
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's JetBlue to CLT-Boston, transferring to a Dash-8 best I can tell for service to Toronto.

CLT is mentioned a possible destination for their new E195's once they arrive next year, but non-stop to Charlotte would be to one of four other airports (Toronto Pearson, which is the main airport, Montreal, Ottawa or Halifax)

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

It's JetBlue to CLT-Boston, transferring to a Dash-8 best I can tell for service to Toronto.

CLT is mentioned a possible destination for their new E195's once they arrive next year, but non-stop to Charlotte would be to one of four other airports (Toronto Pearson, which is the main airport, Montreal, Ottawa or Halifax)

Damn. That sucks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

7 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

It's JetBlue to CLT-Boston, transferring to a Dash-8 best I can tell for service to Toronto.

CLT is mentioned a possible destination for their new E195's once they arrive next year, but non-stop to Charlotte would be to one of four other airports (Toronto Pearson, which is the main airport, Montreal, Ottawa or Halifax)

As a Canadian I hope they add all 4, but NE hubs can barely support service to Ottawa and Halifax. Added competition to Toronto would be great for CLT. Hopefully AA keeps mainline on those YUL & YYZ flights.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I took AA adding mainline to CLT-YYZ as a competitive measure against AC up-gauging their CLT service more than anything. Likewise I believe the mainline add to Montreal (which was supposed to happen pre-COVID anyways) was likely to keep AC off the route, who publicly said they have desire to serve CLT-YUL in the future (they basically said they only had the resources to serve either CLT-YUL or RDU-YUL and chose RDU as it lacked service). 

Even though AC is supposed to resume CLT service with a CRJ, I am willing to bet it either gets up-gauged fairly quickly or the CRJ is a placeholder. AC is essentially retiring most CRJs off their transborder network, with the exception of some smaller cities. 

AC has a long history in Charlotte at this point, and for a while before 9/11 served the CLT-YYZ route with A319s. 
 

Edit: It’s interesting though also strange that they list CLT as a future destination. Airlines don’t usually make such type of announcements, especially given how they just placed the order for the planes today. 

Porter is a fantastic little airline. Great service-they offer free beer and wine in real glassware. They attempted to expand out of Toronto City Airport with larger aircraft but the Federal government wouldn’t allow the airports expand. It’s fun going to the Harbour in Toronto and watch all the planes at the island airport land. 
 

https://www.flyporter.com/en-us/about-porter/porter-and-embraer

Wonder if they want to maybe tie-up with AA. AA had a partnership with Canadian Airlines (which was acquired by AC) and tried to partner with Westjet before they themselves tied-up with Delta. 

Edited by LKN704
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

For CLT-YUL I have several times instead  taken the flight (with a connection) to BTV Burlington Vermont. Domestic flight so no international foolishness, no long airport delays for screening and BTV is larger than it seems is necessary during most of the year because it is built for ski season. Then rent a car in five minutes and drive north for two hours with a quick border crossing as tourists. Even with the connection time I still arrive downtown Montreal near the same time as non-stop to YUL and then the customs/immigration lines and car lines or taxi into town. The cost of parking the car is a price for the convenience though it gives some flexibility to drive about the region if needed. Drive to Burlington a day ahead for return and enjoy a great city, convenient restaurant district and then car to airport and home. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

There is speculation that the Porter announcement may just be a play to try and attract a potential suitor for acquisition.  This is a very ambitious growth plan.  As mentioned before, however, they would be great for competition.  Especially for Canadian markets which are notoriously high priced due to high taxes.  

 

3 hours ago, LKN704 said:

I took AA adding mainline to CLT-YYZ as a competitive measure against AC up-gauging their CLT service more than anything. Likewise I believe the mainline add to Montreal (which was supposed to happen pre-COVID anyways) was likely to keep AC off the route, who publicly said they have desire to serve CLT-YUL in the future (they basically said they only had the resources to serve either CLT-YUL or RDU-YUL and chose RDU as it lacked service). 
 

That's the way I interpreted these aircraft up gauges as well.  Having said that, however,  I still think CLT could still be a viable market out of YUL for AC once demand recovers.  AC and AA are trying to tackle very different Canadian markets.  AC is geared towards smaller market Canadian and more prominently international connections.  Whereas AA is geared towards Canada-Florida demand.   I think both AA (with mainline) and AC could survive.  

AC has very unique TATL portfolio from YUL compared to YYZ.  Including secondary France and northern Africa.  

Edited by CltFlyer
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.