Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[LKN704]

It’s hard to figure out their financials given they are a private company but they haven’t flown any passengers in over a year and from what I have seen their operation wasn’t really ever profitable, so I could see this essentially being a pathway to acquisition. Then again the airline is headed by the man who was the CEO of AA during 9/11 and has a good bit of airline experience, so who knows.

Part of me is skeptical that they will ever serve Charlotte. However, regardless, the fact that they even are considering Charlotte is great and only helps to improve the awareness of both Charlotte and CLT. 

[kermit]

^ yea. Tripling capacity with aircraft which cannot serve your dominant (and only) hub seems like an unusual strategy — to my untrained eye there appears to be a good bit of capacity remaining at YTZ. They also went though the due diligence process with Bombardier jets (now the Airbus 220) back in 2013 so switching off to embraer jets also seems inefficient. 

They are a great airline and I hope they survive, but there is lots in this announcement that makes me scratch my head. Making any connections between Pearson and the Island would be virtually impossible so they are talking about creating a completely separate airline with the Embraers.

Edited July 13, 2021 by kermit

[LKN704]

41 minutes ago, kermit said:

^ yea. Tripling capacity with aircraft which cannot serve your dominant (and only) hub seems like an unusual strategy — to my untrained eye there appears to be a good bit of capacity remaining at YTZ. They also went though the due diligence process with Bombardier jets (now the Airbus 220) back in 2013 so switching off to embraer jets also seems inefficient. 

They are a great airline and I hope they survive, but there is lots in this announcement that makes me scratch my head. Making any connections between Pearson and the Island would be a nightmare.

I think the only reason they were going to the A220 was because it had better short-field performance that fit into YTZ's failed expansion plans. 

Getting from Pearson to Downtown is a nightmare IMO. That airport train is extremely expensive for a round-trip ticket compared to its North American peers. 

[CltFlyer]

https://twitter.com/CLTAirport/status/1415331536484896771?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1415331536484896771|twgr^|twcon^s1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpublish.twitter.com%2F%3Fquery%3Dhttps3A2F2Ftwitter.com2FCLTAirport2Fstatus2F1415331536484896771widget%3DTweet

Concourse E Expansion Tweet.  Concourse E expansion is adding 34,000 square feet of hold room and concessions space on the north end of the concourse. It’s scheduled to wrap up by the end of the year.

 

In my opinion.  Now with the framing built out.  This looks much larger than I initially thought.   Hopefully by "hold room"  they mean that that each of the current outside walk way gates will have their own gate space. Preferably a jet bridge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LKN704]

Project looks like it will take a longer time to wrap up than just 4 months. 

[LKN704]

Don't think this was discussed, but Spirit is starting nonstop service to Las Vegas on 8 September. Spirit will be the third carrier on the route, in addition to AA and Frontier. 

It's great to see more competition for flights west of the Rockys. 

It also looks like Delta's second daily service to SLC (that I believe was supposed to be summer-seasonal) has now been tentatively extended to become a permanent add.  Strange to me though that SLC can support two daily flights on mainline equipment, but United can only fly regional jets on CLT-DEN, despite Denver being a much larger hub, and a much larger city in general. 

Still missing competition to LAX/SFO/SEA. Then again, I suppose AA's frequency on these routes in more than enough for the market and likely keeps perspective carriers of said routes. AA essentially offers a bi-hourly schedule between 7AM and 8PM on CLT-LAX right now. 

[CltFlyer]

22 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

Don't think this was discussed, but Spirit is starting nonstop service to Las Vegas on 8 September. Spirit will be the third carrier on the route, in addition to AA and Frontier. 

It's great to see more competition for flights west of the Rockys. 

It also looks like Delta's second daily service to SLC (that I believe was supposed to be summer-seasonal) has now been tentatively extended to become a permanent add.  Strange to me though that SLC can support two daily flights on mainline equipment, but United can only fly regional jets on CLT-DEN, despite Denver being a much larger hub, and a much larger city in general. 

Still missing competition to LAX/SFO/SEA. Then again, I suppose AA's frequency on these routes in more than enough for the market and likely keeps perspective carriers of said routes. AA essentially offers a bi-hourly schedule between 7AM and 8PM on CLT-LAX right now. 

Looks like it was just added into the system today.  I'm surprised they didn't announce it.  Spirit usually announces everything.  Great to have more competition on this route with now Frontier and Spirit on it.  

I wonder if Spirit will try LAX at some point.  

[CltFlyer]

Also Spirit related.  In October MCO is going 2x Daily.  This means that Spirit is going to be back at the frequency level that they were at when they first started pre-pandemic.

2x daily Orlando

1x daily Fort Lauderdale

1x daily Las Vegas

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

On 7/17/2021 at 3:15 PM, LKN704 said:

Don't think this was discussed, but Spirit is starting nonstop service to Las Vegas on 8 September. Spirit will be the third carrier on the route, in addition to AA and Frontier. 

It's great to see more competition for flights west of the Rockys. 

It also looks like Delta's second daily service to SLC (that I believe was supposed to be summer-seasonal) has now been tentatively extended to become a permanent add.  Strange to me though that SLC can support two daily flights on mainline equipment, but United can only fly regional jets on CLT-DEN, despite Denver being a much larger hub, and a much larger city in general. 

Still missing competition to LAX/SFO/SEA. Then again, I suppose AA's frequency on these routes in more than enough for the market and likely keeps perspective carriers of said routes. AA essentially offers a bi-hourly schedule between 7AM and 8PM on CLT-LAX right now. 

United flew CRJs to ATL from DEN as recently as 2019. I don't think United focuses on the SE with DAL and AA. 

We might be getting to the point Delta would add a Sky Club once they move terminals. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by CarolinaDaydreamin

[LKN704]

11 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

United flew CRJs to ATL from DEN as recently as 2019. I don't think United focuses on the SE with DAL and AA. 

It isn't a United in the Southeast issue as it is more of a CLT-based market issue, likely due to how large the AA hub is here relative to Charlotte's local passenger traffic numbers. 

I looked up United's schedules for CLT, RDU, ATL, and CHS for a random date in the middle of September. United is basically the same size in Charlotte as in Charleston, although Charleston still has mainline service. Charlotte is likely the largest city in the US that lacks daily, year-round mainline service by United. United is only larger in Raleigh by 3 daily flights a day-but 50% of their departures from Raleigh are on mainline equipment. 

CLT-15 daily flights, no mainline service

• IAD  (3x E175)-3 daily
• IAH (4x E175)-4 daily
• ORD (1x E175, 2x CRJ)-3 daily
• DEN (2x E175)-2 daily
• EWR (2x CRJ, 1x E175)-3 daily

RDU-18 daily flights, 9 mainline flights 

• IAD (1x 739, 2x E175)-3 daily
• IAH (3x E175, 1x A319)-4 daily
• ORD (1x 737, 1x E170, 1x E175)-3 daily
• EWR (3x 738, 1x E175, 1x E170)-5 daily
• DEN (1x A319, 1x A320)-2 daily
• SFO (1x 738)-1 daily

ATL-20 daily flights, 11 mainline flights

• IAD (2x E175, 1x 737)-3 daily
• IAH (3x E175, 1x 737, 1x 738)-5 daily
• ORD (1x A319, 1x 738, 1x E175, 1x E170)-4 daily 
• EWR (1x A319, 1x 738, 1x 737, 1x E175)-4 daily 
• DEN (2x A320, 1x E175)-3 daily 
• SFO (1x A319)-1 daily

CHS-14 daily flights, 1 mainline 

• IAD (1x A319, 2x E175)-3 daily
• IAH  (2x E175)-2 daily
• ORD (3x E175)-3 daily
• EWR (4x E175)-4 daily
• DEN (2x E175)-2 daily

 

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

44 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

It isn't a United in the Southeast issue as it is more of a CLT-based market issue, likely due to how large the AA hub is here relative to Charlotte's local passenger traffic numbers. 

I looked up United's schedules for CLT, RDU, ATL, and CHS for a random date in the middle of September. United is basically the same size in Charlotte as in Charleston, although Charleston still has mainline service. Charlotte is likely the largest city in the US that lacks daily, year-round mainline service by United. United is only larger in Raleigh by 3 daily flights a day-but 50% of their departures from Raleigh are on mainline equipment. 

CLT-15 daily flights, no mainline service

• IAD  (3x E175)-3 daily
• IAH (4x E175)-4 daily
• ORD (1x E175, 2x CRJ)-3 daily
• DEN (2x E175)-2 daily
• EWR (2x CRJ, 1x E175)-3 daily

RDU-18 daily flights, 9 mainline flights 

• IAD (1x 739, 2x E175)-3 daily
• IAH (3x E175, 1x A319)-4 daily
• ORD (1x 737, 1x E170, 1x E175)-3 daily
• EWR (3x 738, 1x E175, 1x E170)-5 daily
• DEN (1x A319, 1x A320)-2 daily
• SFO (1x 738)-1 daily

ATL-20 daily flights, 11 mainline flights

• IAD (2x E175, 1x 737)-3 daily
• IAH (3x E175, 1x 737, 1x 738)-5 daily
• ORD (1x A319, 1x 738, 1x E175, 1x E170)-4 daily 
• EWR (1x A319, 1x 738, 1x 737, 1x E175)-4 daily 
• DEN (2x A320, 1x E175)-3 daily 
• SFO (1x A319)-1 daily

CHS-14 daily flights, 1 mainline 

• IAD (1x A319, 2x E175)-3 daily
• IAH  (2x E175)-2 daily
• ORD (3x E175)-3 daily
• EWR (4x E175)-4 daily
• DEN (2x E175)-2 daily

 

I'd like to see how United compared vs Delta and American in the southeast. American and Delta have a much stronger presence bc of ATL and CLT as hubs, and that should be a much larger passenger load without having a pseudo local hub.  If Houston and Dulles are the closest hubs, there is a fairly large hole in their network. Suprised they haven't made a hub city in Orlando or Nashville.

[CltFlyer]

In my opinion.  DL's relatively strong local market in CLT combined with AAs hub and a growing LCC presence really hurts UA in CLT.  Having said that, I would expect that once covid recovers a little more that we will see a few mainline flights a day (though not as many as ATL, RDU, BNA, etc...) as was pre-covid.  I would hope that they would try SFO within the next 5 years or so if the local economy keeps growing.   This would be guaranteed mainline.  

[CltFlyer]

In light of the US-Canada border officially re-opening.  

Air Canada has confirmed that service to Charlotte will re-start on September 7th.

Once daily on the CRJ-200 as previously mentioned.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2021-07-19-Air-Canada-Ready-to-Reconnect-Canada-and-U-S-Travel-With-Up-to-220-Daily-Flights-Between-the-Two-Countries

[videtur quam contuor]

AA has non-stop CLT YUL (Montreal) in the schedule. I checked for late September, my target travel date. Initial date not researched. Bombardier CRJ-900. 

Edited July 20, 2021 by tarhoosier

[CltFlyer]

4 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

AA has non-stop CLT YUL (Montreal) in the schedule. I checked for late September, my target travel date. Initial date not researched. Bombardier CRJ-900. 

CLT-YUL is actually currently flying once daily.  So it will definitely still be there in September.  

[KJHburg]

I interrupt this discussion for a look back at the old full service restaurant at the airport.  This was in the 1960s. 

[csweet]

On 7/20/2021 at 10:30 PM, CltFlyer said:

CLT-YUL is actually currently flying once daily.  So it will definitely still be there in September.  

This flight went mainline pre covid right?

[CltFlyer]

Wow.!  $2.85 is a steal for that.  I just put it in a inflation calculator.  It comes out to around $26.16 today, which would still be a good deal by today's standards! 

5 minutes ago, csweet said:

This flight went mainline pre covid right?

Actually it was planned as mainline during covid (in the works pre-covid).  2 daily 319.  It flew on 1 daily this spring before cases in Canada rose again.  It still showing as operating as 2x 319s in October we see if it sticks.

It goes to CR9s for the Winter before returning to 319s in April under the current schedule.  As alluded to by LKN704.  It's likely a play to keep AC off of YUL.  Which they were considering Pre-Covid.  Regardless, with Florida connections, I don't see the extra capacity being an issue.

[CltFlyer]

https://sportsgrindentertainment.com/american-airlines-details-plans-for-charlotte-airport-expansion-hundreds-of-new-jobs/

AA is getting 3 new gates by the end of year?  I suppose they might be from concourse E extension, but I didn't think they were adding any new gates there.  Just creating more gate area for the existing "outside" gates.

Also, here is a terminal lobby expansion update from CLT twitter.  

Tweet:  Queen Charlotte is safely tucked away as work continues on the Terminal Lobby Expansion project. Work on the 366,000 square feet of new and renovated space is coming in for landing in 2025.

 

 

 

[HopHead]

^Are all these jobs at the airport (and AA in general) really net-new? Or is it rehiring back from Covid? Feel like it's a little bit of both. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by HopHead

[CltFlyer]

A very hazy CLT this morning.

[CltFlyer]

They have made significant progress on the exterior of the concourse E extension.  Taken this morning from the gate E 14 area around 8:30am this morning.  There were several workers on the roof.  It appears that the blue roofing is in the process of being installed.

[CltFlyer]

It appears we will be getting Kalamazoo, MI (AZO) service in the very near future.

https://wwmt.com/amp/news/local/kalamazoo-airport-receives-1m-grant-to-create-nonstop-flight-to-north-carolina
 

VLD (Valdosta, GA) and SCE (State College, PA) also applied for grants to help create service to CLT.  We will see if either gets  awarded.

[LKN704]

Bermuda is being extended year-round from CLT (not sure why IMO, weather isn't that nice there in the winter and Winter traffic is almost entirely visiting friends/family). 

AA is apparently dropping service from CLT to both Toledo and Champaign/Urbana. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by LKN704

[CltFlyer]

2 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

 

AA is apparently dropping service from CLT to both Toledo and Champaign/Urbana. 

They aren’t gone completely.  They are gone from November and October respectively until April.  
 

I wonder if it’s a casualty of them being really tight on gate space right now and they just can’t afford to fly marginal routes.