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Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion


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3 hours ago, tozmervo said:

makes mental note to not fly on Mexican budget airlines

Just drive up to RDU and save big on Volaris Airlines

Volaris - Ultra low cost airline with the cheapest flight deals-Volaris   notice they are an ULTRA Low Cost airline 

You can pay for your flight in Cash at select Walmarts, 7-11s etc.  and that is the truth. 

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3 hours ago, csweet said:

I would love to see AM add a MEX flight to CLT. The Volaris flight has been extremely successful, which led to AA adding GDL flights a couple years back. 

I'm surprised, given the explosive growth of the Mexican population in NC that they haven't started service to RDU as well.

 

Edited by Phillydog
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Aeromexico struggles in the US market. They cannot even serve larger metro areas like Washington DC or Boston successfully. Their financials are a mess right now (they filled for Chapter 11 not too long ago) so I see little US expansion in their immediate future unfortunately. 

I can't recall the specifics statistics, but the vast majority of Mexicans in the Carolinas aren't originally from the Valley of Mexico Metro Area, but either near Guadalajara or one of the many border states. AA's flight to Mexico City serves the market quite fine.

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1 hour ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

According to the Points Guy, the Delta flights from BOS to CLT are about to begin. Really hoping for that Delta Sky Club in the next couple years.

First plane arrives from Boston Sunday night. Departures begin Monday at 3 times per day frequency on an Embraer E-175 with 76 seats (12 in first). They'll be going up against tough frequency competition from American.

CLT - BOS market: 14 daily flights
American x 9, Delta x 3, jetBlue x2

Delta's daily CLT departures Nov 2021: 34
Atlanta x 8, New York LGA x 7, Detroit x 5,  New York JFK x 5, Minneapolis x 4, Boston x 3, Salt Lake City x 2

Edited by CLT2014
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7 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

First plane arrives from Boston Sunday night. Departures begin Monday at 3 times per day frequency on an Embraer E-175 with 76 seats (12 in first). They'll be going up against tough frequency competition from American.

CLT - BOS market: 14 daily flights
American x 9, Delta x 3, jetBlue x2

Delta's daily CLT departures Nov 2021: 34
Atlanta x 8, New York LGA x 7, Detroit x 5,  New York JFK x 5, Minneapolis x 4, Boston x 3, Salt Lake City x 2

34 is MORE than enough passengers for a Sky Club

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4 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

34 is MORE than enough passengers for a Sky Club

I doubt we see one before the next expansion of A. It'll be really interesting to see what happens then once the next phase completes. I would welcome additional carrier options from United and Delta. Would love to see United provide an alternative to non-stop SFO. 

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Unfortunately the number of flights doesn't dictate how a city gets an airline club, but rather how much revenue flows through a city, in addition to how many customers flying through a city hold club memberships. Airline lounges are a ridiculously expensive enterprise for airlines, which is why locations are often shuttered during downturns. Airlines have to lease a space, hire extra agents to staff the counter, contract out food/bev/hospitality workers, cater the facility, etc. I do agree, however, that Charlotte will likely get a SkyClub. 

It would be nice for CLT to gain a West Coast nonstop outside of AA. Alaska has said multiple times they have no plans to serve CLT-SEA as they viewed the market as too small. I'm not sure if that is still the case now that their partnership with AA has strengthened. I actually see DL starting a SEA nonstop before Alaska. I'm surprised that UA hasn't added a SFO flight timed to connect to their Asian bank, although whatever chance CLT had of gaining the flight is likely put on hold due to the pandemic. 

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23 hours ago, LKN704 said:

Unfortunately the number of flights doesn't dictate how a city gets an airline club, but rather how much revenue flows through a city, in addition to how many customers flying through a city hold club memberships. Airline lounges are a ridiculously expensive enterprise for airlines, which is why locations are often shuttered during downturns. Airlines have to lease a space, hire extra agents to staff the counter, contract out food/bev/hospitality workers, cater the facility, etc. I do agree, however, that Charlotte will likely get a SkyClub. 

It would be nice for CLT to gain a West Coast nonstop outside of AA. Alaska has said multiple times they have no plans to serve CLT-SEA as they viewed the market as too small. I'm not sure if that is still the case now that their partnership with AA has strengthened. I actually see DL starting a SEA nonstop before Alaska. I'm surprised that UA hasn't added a SFO flight timed to connect to their Asian bank, although whatever chance CLT had of gaining the flight is likely put on hold due to the pandemic. 

I actually think a Delta from LAX could happen before SEA. 

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1 hour ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

I actually think a Delta from LAX could happen before SEA. 

LAX isn't really a connecting hub for Delta (or any other US carrier). It's simply an extremely large airport in the second largest metro area in the country where the 3 major carriers have extensive operations catered to the local LAX market. AA tried to build a connecting hub there over the last 5 years ago and it ultimately failed. On the East Coast, Delta only flies from LAX to Florida and other Delta focus cities/hubs, neither of which CLT is. AA flies CLT-LAX 7x daily during most periods (sans COVID) offering 1330 seats on the route. There would be no possible way Delta could compete in size or scope with AA on the route. Delta attempted PHL-LAX a couple years back and were quickly chased off the route. I just can't see them starting a CLT-LAX nonstop unfortunately. SEA has the benefit of in that it is much more of a connecting hub for Delta (although Asia traffic is essentially zero because of COVID) and AA's presence on the route isn't as fortified as it is on CLT-LAX. 

Edited by LKN704
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On 10/10/2021 at 11:00 PM, LKN704 said:

LAX isn't really a connecting hub for Delta (or any other US carrier). It's simply an extremely large airport in the second largest metro area in the country where the 3 major carriers have extensive operations catered to the local LAX market. AA tried to build a connecting hub there over the last 5 years ago and it ultimately failed. On the East Coast, Delta only flies from LAX to Florida and other Delta focus cities/hubs, neither of which CLT is. AA flies CLT-LAX 7x daily during most periods (sans COVID) offering 1330 seats on the route. There would be no possible way Delta could compete in size or scope with AA on the route. Delta attempted PHL-LAX a couple years back and were quickly chased off the route. I just can't see them starting a CLT-LAX nonstop unfortunately. SEA has the benefit of in that it is much more of a connecting hub for Delta (although Asia traffic is essentially zero because of COVID) and AA's presence on the route isn't as fortified as it is on CLT-LAX. 

Delta has more service from LAX than you are acknowledging. 

image.png.d358caa658347b63c11d4b20e0c53ec2.png

Meanwhile, its Seattle with fewer domestic routes:

image.png.477e03b6d0081f3189a56277494d6769.png

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On 10/12/2021 at 1:58 AM, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Delta has more service from LAX than you are acknowledging. 

image.png.d358caa658347b63c11d4b20e0c53ec2.png

Meanwhile, its Seattle with fewer domestic routes:

image.png.477e03b6d0081f3189a56277494d6769.png

I'm sorry, that isn't correct. 

Excluding Hawaii, Delta serves 38 domestic destinations (year-round, non seasonal) nonstop from Los Angeles, 23 of which are either on the East Coast, have existing nonstops from CLT on Delta, or make no sense to reach via a connection via LAX. Of the remaining 15 destinations, CLT has existing nonstop service to 8 of them (LAS, PDX, SFO, SEA, PHX, RNO, SMF, SAN). Of the remaining 7 destinations (SJC, BOI, FAT, OAK, PSP, GEG, TUS), GEG and BOI are more logically served over SEA, as the overall distance is shorter and requires less backtracking, and Delta offers more flights from both cities to Seattle (Delta flies LAX-BOI twice daily but flies SEA-BOI six times daily, on SEA-GEG they fly the route a whopping eight times daily, but only fly LAX-GEG once daily). Sans for TUS, the remaining 5 routes are all California intrastate routes, but some like LAX-PSP are so infrequently flown (one flight per day) it's unlikely that a CLT-LAX-PSP connection would be available. 

From Seattle, Delta serves 41 domestic destinations year-round excluding Hawaii, 21 of which are on the East Coast, have existing nonstops from CLT on Delta, or make no sense to reach via connection at SEA. Of the remaining 20 destinations, 7 have nonstop service to CLT (All in California, +RNO and PDX). Of the remaining destinations (ANC, FAI, SNA, PSP, SJC, GEG, YVR, BOI, YYC, EUG, MFR, RDM, PSC), all are more logically served via SEA with the exception of SNA/PSP/SJC. 

Going back to my CLT-LAX-PSP example above, the infrastructure that Delta has built at Seattle is made for a hub operation. Flights are operated in "banks" allowing for the maximum number of connections possible to take place in a very short amount of time. 

Delta's operations in Los Angeles (as well as American's and United's IIRC) are operated as a "rolling hub" catered to the local, origin/destination market. Flights depart and arrive at varying times throughout the day with little thought towards connecting traffic. Look at some of Delta's midcontinental/transcontinental arrivals into LAX, some arrivals, like say the flight from Washington DC, arrive late in the evening where there are few (if any connecting opportunities available). The Delta Washington DC arrival into Seattle however is timed to arrive in the early morning in the middle of a connecting bank, as are most arrivals from the East Coast. 

This is all moot though as Delta isn't starting CLT to SEA or LAX anytime soon. 

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6 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

I'm sorry, that isn't correct. 

Excluding Hawaii, Delta serves 38 domestic destinations (year-round, non seasonal) nonstop from Los Angeles, 23 of which are either on the East Coast, have existing nonstops from CLT on Delta, or make no sense to reach via a connection via LAX. Of the remaining 15 destinations, CLT has existing nonstop service to 8 of them (LAS, PDX, SFO, SEA, PHX, RNO, SMF, SAN). Of the remaining 7 destinations (SJC, BOI, FAT, OAK, PSP, GEG, TUS), GEG and BOI are more logically served over SEA, as the overall distance is shorter and requires less backtracking, and Delta offers more flights from both cities to Seattle (Delta flies LAX-BOI twice daily but flies SEA-BOI six times daily, on SEA-GEG they fly the route a whopping eight times daily, but only fly LAX-GEG once daily). Sans for TUS, the remaining 5 routes are all California intrastate routes, but some like LAX-PSP are so infrequently flown (one flight per day) it's unlikely that a CLT-LAX-PSP connection would be available. 

From Seattle, Delta serves 41 domestic destinations year-round excluding Hawaii, 21 of which are on the East Coast, have existing nonstops from CLT on Delta, or make no sense to reach via connection at SEA. Of the remaining 20 destinations, 7 have nonstop service to CLT (All in California, +RNO and PDX). Of the remaining destinations (ANC, FAI, SNA, PSP, SJC, GEG, YVR, BOI, YYC, EUG, MFR, RDM, PSC), all are more logically served via SEA with the exception of SNA/PSP/SJC. 

Going back to my CLT-LAX-PSP example above, the infrastructure that Delta has built at Seattle is made for a hub operation. Flights are operated in "banks" allowing for the maximum number of connections possible to take place in a very short amount of time. 

Delta's operations in Los Angeles (as well as American's and United's IIRC) are operated as a "rolling hub" catered to the local, origin/destination market. Flights depart and arrive at varying times throughout the day with little thought towards connecting traffic. Look at some of Delta's midcontinental/transcontinental arrivals into LAX, some arrivals, like say the flight from Washington DC, arrive late in the evening where there are few (if any connecting opportunities available). The Delta Washington DC arrival into Seattle however is timed to arrive in the early morning in the middle of a connecting bank, as are most arrivals from the East Coast. 

This is all moot though as Delta isn't starting CLT to SEA or LAX anytime soon. 

Delta's LAX terminal opens in 15 months. The operations will be more than sufficient to have a daily CLT flight. The Delta operation is 20% larger at LAX and the connection opportunities fit CLT better than they do at SEA, with more local CLT flyers needing to fly to southern California over the Pacific Northwest.

From friends at Delta, a LAX direct from Charlotte is much more likely than SEA.

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8 minutes ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Delta's LAX terminal opens in 15 months. The operations will be more than sufficient to have a daily CLT flight. The Delta operation is 20% larger at LAX and the connection opportunities fit CLT better than they do at SEA, with more local CLT flyers needing to fly to southern California over the Pacific Northwest.

From friends at Delta, a LAX direct from Charlotte is much more likely than SEA.

If the operation is 20% larger at LAX than at SEA, then how did Delta have more daily departures in Seattle than in Los Angeles on average in 2019?  

On a Charlotte-related note, I did not realize that CLT was the only airport on the East Coast outside of ATL, BOS, JFK, and MCO to feature more than one daily flight to Salt Lake City on Delta at present. Glad to see the flight is doing well. 

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2 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

If the operation is 20% larger at LAX than at SEA, then how did Delta have more daily departures in Seattle than in Los Angeles on average in 2019?  

On a Charlotte-related note, I did not realize that CLT was the only airport on the East Coast outside of ATL, BOS, JFK, and MCO to feature more than one daily flight to Salt Lake City on Delta at present. Glad to see the flight is doing well. 

It had 1.5M more passengers per year BEFORE completing the terminal switch and expansion.

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In a first for CLT, I believe AA operated the first 787 flight into CLT this past weekend. I don't think it carried passengers, but it flew in from Philly on Saturday afternoon and then flew back to Philly late on Sunday. I wonder if it was for crew familiarization purposes and could be a sign of things to come. 

3 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

It had 1.5M more passengers per year BEFORE completing the terminal switch and expansion.

The terminal swap was in 2017. Delta only lost gate space at LAX in November 2020 when they closed Terminal 3 for refurbishment. Delta was still larger by number of flights in Seattle even when Terminal 3 at LAX was open in 2019. Delta will always be larger in LAX over SEA by number of passengers simply because of the massive amount of widebody "shuttle" flights to JFK/BOS/ATL that SEA does not have. Airline hubs aren't necessarily measured by number of passengers carried but rather number of flights which show the strength of connectivity. Anyways, the Delta project at LAX (which looks very nice) adds 0 new gates and isn't an expansion. They are simply renovating Terminal 2/3, building a new central check-in + baggage claim area for Delta flights, and connecting the complex to the international terminal. Gate space will be the same. 

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18 hours ago, LKN704 said:

. Anyways, the Delta project at LAX (which looks very nice) adds 0 new gates and isn't an expansion. They are simply renovating Terminal 2/3, building a new central check-in + baggage claim area for Delta flights, and connecting the complex to the international terminal. Gate space will be the same. 

It will allow for more domestic 767s from those hubs over 737s, so hypothetically allowing for more gates to be freed up.

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